Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?

[Elin]

Your final statement couldn't be more true.

I think the patching has to do with putting a new patch on an old garment, and not using the old wineskin for new wine that needs to ferment. It's the same analogy, but the wineskin isn't what is being patched. Both the garment, and the wineskin house something. The wineskin houses the wine, and the clothes house the person. The wine that is contained represents God's word, and the person is who the garment covers. If the covering is old, and worn out, we cannot make the old new by trying to patch it up over and over.

Let the person be covered by the new even though they are same individual that used to wear the old.

The born-again person is not the same person, he is a new person altogether, and not just a patched-up old person.

The wine of the new is God's word, just as the wine of the old is.
It's the containers of both that are no longer useful, not the contents within the container. The old wineskin and old clothes are spent, but what they covered and housed are still valuable. The contents are both God's word, and the ones who He loves.

Does it ever stop. . .

Read it again. . .there are two wines, one old and one new,
and there are two skins, one old and one new.

The new covenant wine of God's NT order (Heb 9:10) must have a new form (wineskin),
for it cannot be contained in the old forms (wineskins) of the old covenant wine.

 

[Jason0047]

Dear Sirk:

Also, Jesus said,

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37).

"Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life."
(John 12:25).

 

[Elin]

Wait a minute. God is still the God of the law and curses for the lost. Why would the lost want to believe in a repressive God such as that, any more than a believer would? If a believer backslides into sin by observing the law, henceforth putting themselves “under the law” why shouldn't a non believer just bypass Galatians 4:24, and go right straight to verse 25? Maybe we ought to minister that Jesus replaced His Father, but then why would we want to come to Christ so we could be in His Father's presence that made the curse of the law?

I guess I just cannot get it.

If we don't take the responsibility for the "curse of the law," then that makes the giver of the law responsible for the curse. Rather than holding God responsible for the curse, it then is better to hold His law responsible. So the "law of sin and death" is also the "curse of the law" which was given to us by God. Here's where Jesus steps into the picture. Our Saviour destroyed both on the cross.
So the plan all along was that God was to speak regulations to Moses to bring curses, sin and death. Then Jesus was to destroy these regulations so curses, sin, and death that His own Father brought forth would be destroyed by His death.

The law was temporarily added (Gal 3:19) to the Abrahamic covenant of promise as a tutor to lead us to Christ, the Promise\.

How am I involved with this thing if God caused all these curses via His law, and I never had anything to do with them? If I am exempt, then the law has always been a curse created by God alone.

Wait a minute. God is still the God of the law and curses for the lost.

No. . . he is not. . .that is the inconsistent building you have constructed with the wood, hay and stubble of your empty human notions (1Co 3:10-15).
The law with its curse has been abolished (Eph 2:15).

Why would the lost want to believe in a repressive God such as that, any more than a believer would?
If a believer backslides into sin by observing the law, henceforth putting themselves “under the law"

They don't. . .that is a false premise and, therefore, your conclusion below is false.

why shouldn't a non believer just bypass Galatians 4:24, and go right straight to verse 25 ?

Maybe we ought to minister that Jesus replaced His Father, but then why would we want to come to Christ so we could be in His Father's presence that made the curse of the law? I guess

I just cannot get it.

You got that right!

And you won't get it until you come into the truth of the whole NT word of God.

The foundation of your building of wood, hay and stubble is unbelief.

 

[Jason0047]

All justification? When did I say that? Hallucinating? The same God who justifies also sanctifies.

Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12

oh yeah, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.

Faith is not a new thing. Abraham had faith just as Moses had a faith. All saints (thru out time) are justified by faith in the Lord as their Savior. All saints obeyed God's Laws and confessed and strived to forsake sin (so as to stop sinning); And many of the saints in the New Testament had ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1). For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

Also, I do not think we agree on the definition of Sanctification. Yes, you believe like I do that God works in the believer. But I don't think you believe the Scriptures when Jesus says, be ye perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. If you are of the Traditional popular church belief today on Soteriology, you believe that no believer will ever be perfect (Which is contrary to a Command given to us by Jesus).

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, your posts are so hilarious I find it hard to believe anybody can say such things and still be serious. Can you be out of fellowship with God and still be saved? I take it that what you mean is can you get out of fellowship with God and lose your salvation after you are saved? No. The fact that you are saved proves that you are in fellowship with God. A saved person can never get out of fellowship with God because Jesus said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

No, what is silly is that Crossnote admits that one can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. I do not believe that. He does. Unless he is now changing his mind on that point or something (Which I think he might have done because he just "liked" your post). Anyways, many proponents of a "Sin and still be saved" doctrine of some kind will indeed say they can be saved and be out of fellowship with God. In fact, 24 members as of this date here at CC admitted to that fact by way of a vote (Which was the winning number one option in the poll).

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105849-can-you-out-fellowship-god-still-saved.html

But we both know that what is popular is not always right.

Fellowship with God happens because you believe in Jesus. Not because you keep the law and the 10 commandments.

Well, I do not believe the Law of Moses as a whole is still binding. I believe the New Testament Law of Christ is what believers are held accountable to keep as a part of being a part of the New Covenant. Jesus commanded us to love God and to love our neighbor. This fulfills the moral law within the Old (See Romans 13:8-10). None of the ceremonial and judicial laws are binding in the Old Testament. Only the New Testament Commands are binding for the believer; And there are 1,050 + New Testament Commands.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99639-new-testament-commands.html

but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

[SUP]24[/SUP] Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Yet, when you quote those verses in 1 John chapter 2, you also have to read this, too.

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:3-6).

"Can you be saved and still abide in unrepentant sin?" These kinds of questions are actually contradictions in themselves. There's no such thing as a saved person abiding in unrepentant sin. Because they have to repent of their sins to get saved in the first place. When a person gets saved Jesus washes away all their sins by Faith. All of your sins are repented of and forgiven at the time a you get saved. All sins, past, present and future sins. It's not necessary to mention every single sin you might be guilty of.

All sins is in context to past sin and not future sin. We know this because John says we need to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin.

1 John 2:1 says, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: "

1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

John also says that we need to walk in the light as he is in the light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin, too (1 John 1:7).

Then you mentioned the example of somebody lying to God right before they die.The bible says, "yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;" Everybody's a liar. Therefore, only those who believe in Jesus are not liars. As Jesus said, "To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice." You are "of the Truth" because you believe in Jesus, not because you don't lie. So, yes, a saved person is still "of the Truth" and is still saved even if he lies to God immediately before kicking the bucket.

Sorry, the verse you quote in no way says you can commit the sin of "lying" and then die and be saved. Actually the verse you quote works against you. When somebody hears somebody's voice is obeying what he is saying. For it does not make sense to say one is hearing his voice and then turn around and say you are not really obeying the commands or teachings of Jesus.

And as far as committing suicide, A saved person can get so depressed and be put under condemnation for his sins by people like you that he might commit suicide cause he thinks he can't face life anymore and/or nobody loves him, etc. But he is still saved and will still be with Jesus in Heaven, because all of his sins were forgiven him the moment he got saved.

The Scriptures say, "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." Suicide is murder. It is self murder. So no. Nobody is saved if they commit suicide unless they are lucky enough to come back from the dead whereby they might repent and be saved.