Testimony About What God's Done for All of Us

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R

ROSSELLA

Guest
#21
This is the biggest problem with Christians; they think that everything is about sin.
I am sure Adam repeated God’s instruction the way he understood it and the part about dying wasn’t God’s words but Adam’s. Latter in Genesis 3:09 God’s asking Adam for explanation and not Eve because Adam got the instruction from God himself. Adam blamed Eve and Eve turned and blamed the serpent; it didn’t take long to become smart and pass the blame.
“Disobedience to Adam isn't the issue in the passage.”
Genesis 2:18 New International Version (NIV) 18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
The Hebrew version says HELP AGAINST HIM; this explains her disobedience to Adam.
Adam and Eve did not have the intelligent that we have and therefore we can’t understand their way of thinking. They didn’t know right from wrong therefore God didn’t hold them responsible for this “disobedience”; but they faced the consequence of their action.
“Things went from a deathless,,,,,,,”
Does Christians believe that? Look Genesis 2:9 “The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”
This proves that they didn’t live forever, God told them not to eat from the tree of life also; God didn't want them to live forever.
I'll be happy to discuss this further with you on the Bible Discussion page. The testimonies page is for testimonies, and while discussions aren't out of place, when most of the comments are discussing a matter that's not a testimony, it becomes out of place. If you want further discussion, post it in the Bible Discussion page.

Do you have Biblical evidence for your belief that Adam misunderstood or that Eve was somehow exempt from the command not to eat from the tree? Because Genesis clearly states that God commanded Adam not to eat and Eve reiterates it. Whether God told her or Adam passed on the message, Eve knew they weren't supposed to eat from the tree and she did anyway. God asked both for Adam and Eve's explanations Genesis 3:11-13.

God did hold them responsible for their sin (and it was sin because sin is disobedience to God and they disobeyed Him. To disobey means to not obey, and they did not obey Him). Because of their actions, God says they are cursed and casts them out of the Garden. Genesis 3:17-24.

Adam and Eve clearly knew enough because God punished them for their sin. They knew what God had told them and chose to do the opposite.


Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned..." If death entered through sin and there was no sin before the Fall, then there was no death. God never told them not to eat from the tree of life. He said they could eat from any tree in the garden but the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Genesis 2:16-17, "And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

If you have Biblical evidence for your beliefs, cite it in a post on the Bible Discussion page.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#22
The proof that Adam misunderstood is the fact that they didn’t died the day they eat the apple.
Eve wasn’t exempt from the consequence of her action and they were evicted from the garden because God didn’t want them to eat from the tree of life.
“Do you have Biblical evidence for your belief that Adam misunderstood or that Eve was somehow exempt from the command not to eat from the tree?”
This question proves that you didn’t totally understand my point; see how easy it is to be misunderstood.
The point is God said not to eat the apple and the reason given is Death; that wasn’t true, that is the proof that God didn’t said they will die. Eve used the same reasons when she resisted the serpent; the serpent told her that it will improve her life and she will not die and that was the truth.

It is not about sin it is about consequence.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#23
Look Genesis 2:9 “The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”
This proves that they didn’t live forever, God told them not to eat from the tree of life also; God didn't want them to live forever.
You are making that up, for no such admonition against eating of the Tree of Life is recorded. Once they disobeyed and ate of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, the were cast out of the garden and the way to the Tree of Life was barred to them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#24
Genesis 2:18 New International Version (NIV) 18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
The Hebrew version says HELP AGAINST HIM; this explains her disobedience to Adam.
The Hebrew word is actually ezer and does not mean what you say at all.

Strong's Concordance

ezer: a help, helper

Original Word: עֵ֫זֶר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ezer
Phonetic Spelling: (ay'-zer)
Short Definition: help

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin

from
azar

Definition

a help, helper

NASB Translation

help (18), helper (2), helpers (1).Brown-Driver-Briggs

I. עֵ֫זֶרnoun masculine[SUP]Psalm 121:1[/SUP]help, succour; — ׳ע absolute
Genesis 2:18 +, suffix עֶזְרִיExodus 18:4, עֶזְרֹהEzekiel 12:14, etc.; —1 help, succour Isaiah 30:5 ("" הוֺעִיל, opposed to בּשֶׁת, חֶרְמָּה), Daniel 11:34; from ׳י Psalm 20:3; Psalm 121:1; Psalm 121:2; Psalm 124:8; in Psalm 89:20 read נֵזֶר for ׳ע Dy Gr Kau (עֹז Bi Che), compare Hup; מָגֵן עֶזְר֑ךָ Deuteronomy 33:29 (= ׳י).

2
concrete = one who helps (compare 1. עֶזְרָה 2) ׳בְּע (בְּ essent., see ב 17b, Ges[SUP]§ 119 h, i[/SUP])
Genesis 2:18,20; (J) + Hosea 13:9 (read ׳מִי בְע Che We Gu[SUP]Kau[/SUP] Now); collective (without בְּ Ezekiel 12:14 (si vera lectio; Co עֹזְרָיו); especially of ׳מִצָּרָיו י ׳ע Deuteronomy 33:7 (poem), ׳ע + מָגֵן Psalm 33:20; Psalm 115:9; Psalm 115:10; Psalm 115:11, + מְפַלֵּט Psalm 70:6; ׳בְּע (see above) Exodus 18:4 (E), Deuteronomy 33:26 (poem), Psalm 146:4.
Strong's Hebrew: 5828. עֵ֫זֶר (ezer) -- a help, helper

Notice how the same word is often used to show how God helps humanity.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#25
You are making that up, for no such admonition against eating of the Tree of Life is recorded. Once they disobeyed and ate of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, the were cast out of the garden and the way to the Tree of Life was barred to them.
I know right? I was wondering where this guy got his views from, because it is not in any version of the bible I've read. I think the "This is the biggest problem with Christians; they think that everything is about sin", comment is just WAY off. It IS all about sin, man falling and being separated from God, and the reconciliation God gives us through Christ. The WHOLE POINT is sin. What am I missing here?
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#26
The proof that Adam misunderstood is the fact that they didn’t died the day they eat the apple.
Eve wasn’t exempt from the consequence of her action and they were evicted from the garden because God didn’t want them to eat from the tree of life.
“Do you have Biblical evidence for your belief that Adam misunderstood or that Eve was somehow exempt from the command not to eat from the tree?”
This question proves that you didn’t totally understand my point; see how easy it is to be misunderstood.
The point is God said not to eat the apple and the reason given is Death; that wasn’t true, that is the proof that God didn’t said they will die. Eve used the same reasons when she resisted the serpent; the serpent told her that it will improve her life and she will not die and that was the truth.

It is not about sin it is about consequence.
They didn't die? Do you have their address? I have a few questions and I thought they had died thousands of years ago.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#27
This is only half the sentence it says EZER KENEGDO; Kenegdo mean against him.עֶזְרִי means help me, עֶזְרָה means help
the root of the word is עֶזְרִ
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#28
They didn't die the day they eat the apple; the bible says that they'll die the day they eat the apple.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#29
I know right? I was wondering where this guy got his views from, because it is not in any version of the bible I've read. I think the "This is the biggest problem with Christians; they think that everything is about sin", comment is just WAY off. It IS all about sin, man falling and being separated from God, and the reconciliation God gives us through Christ. The WHOLE POINT is sin. What am I missing here?
Maybe he misunderstands sin? Since Christ was purposed from before the foundation of the world to be the propitiation for our sin, I do not know how someone can say it is not about sin, either :confused:
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#30
They didn't die the day they eat the apple; the bible says that they'll die the day they eat the apple.
No it said they would "certainly die", not "certainly die right away". Before they ate they would live for ever, after they ate they would die. They are dead. I don't agree with your point.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#33
Of course he didn’t understood sin before he eat the apple; that’s the point was it a sin if you don’t know the different between right and wrong?
The point is not sin but consequence.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#34
This is only half the sentence it says EZER KENEGDO; Kenegdo mean against him.עֶזְרִי means help me, עֶזְרָה means help
the root of the word is עֶזְרִ
It means a helper suitable for him, not against him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,962
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#35
Of course he didn’t understood sin before he eat the apple; that’s the point was it a sin if you don’t know the different between right and wrong?
The point is not sin but consequence.
It was not the tree of knowledge of right and wrong but the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They already knew good in the form of God Himself, Who is the epitome of goodness, the author of all that is good. The evil they ate was disobedience via pride, and the consequence fell on all of creation.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#36
You don't speak or read Hebrew; if you did you wouldn't argue. It says help against him; help against him is maybe the best suitable help for him.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#37
“They already knew good in the form of God Himself,”
You don’t know what they knew before they eat the apple. You benefiting from Eve by receiving the knowledge of good and evil in order to criticize her action before she eat the apple. That is very typical for Christians; they always do that, they call it Christian's love.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,962
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#38
“They already knew good in the form of God Himself,”
You don’t know what they knew before they eat the apple. You benefiting from Eve by receiving the knowledge of good and evil in order to criticize her action before she eat the apple. That is very typical for Christians; they always do that, they call it Christian's love.
I have not criticized Eve's action before she ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, and Scripture makes it plain that Adam and Eve knew God. You seem completely ignorant of the content and meaning of Scripture even as you pretend otherwise. This is very typical for non believers.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
#39
And you ignore reality; your interpretation of the story caused people in many cultures to oppress women. The women are responsible for life and knowing good and evil; they are also responsible for society’s greatest achievements.