The Challenge

moment_of_faith · Sep 15, 2012

I had already posted this inside a thread, but would like anyone and especial anyone who has a different view other than mine. Try to make short and sweet. Leave out all the scripture if can and just give me your overview of end times and where you believe we are at.

Thanks

I personally believe we are right at the rapture. We are seeing the falling away from the Lord going on right now. Christians “Followers “numbers are declining every day and this isn’t just locally it’s global. Islam, Hinduism, Wiccan, Atheism and so on are on the raise. Hence the FALLING AWAY.

I believe before long the Rapture will occur. This will throw the world into trouble if it’s not already; we are pushing the bounders on that now, from new Muslim upraising, financial collapse, wars, and so on.

This will allow a leader to come to power. One who’s powerful and strong. Has the right answer for all the world’s problems. Matter of fact the world will beg for him. Satan loves to hear someone beg him.

Satan will give his power to this person. This man along with a false religious leader will deceive “MOST” of the world into receiving a mark and worshipping the Anti-Christ The one Satan eventually possesses at the 3 ½ year mark until the end of the 7 years?

I say most because we know a number so great will come back to the lord from all nation, kindred’s, and tongues.

This anti-christ after bringing the world back together will in his heart magnify himself above everyone else, including GOD. I will be above the most high he will say to himself.

He will sit in the new rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and claim to be the god of all gods. Over the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, JESUS, Allah, Atheist. He will claim to be the gods of gods. He will make everyone take a mark to prove their loyalty. Without this mark you will not be able to buy or sale.

This is will start World War III. Russia, Persia who is modern day Iran, and a group of Muslim nations will attack Israel, and the Anti-christ sitting in the temple claiming to be god. Israel will defeat this enemy but at that time China “the Kings of the East” will march with a 200 million man army across a dried up Euphrates River. They will be defeated and what’s left of the world will be broke down between 10 kings. They will prepare to fight Jesus and his saints at their return.

Jesus takes care of the anti-christ. He separates the sheep form the goats. The sheep inherit the 1000 kingdom. Goats go to hell waiting the great white throne Judgment.

But also during this last 3 ½ years anyone who will not take the mark will be hunted down and killed for their testimony of Jesus Christ. They will have their heads cut off. It will be great prosecution for the believers.
Along with that the wars cause famine, that brings on pestilence, to the point you will work all day just to feed yourself, but it will still be a Rich Elite that have everything.

The meek inherit a 1000 kingdom where most will live the 1000 years. They will be free of the devil that was locked away, have kids, family, but they will still have the Flesh wish causes lust, pride and so on.
After a 1000 year Jesus will let the devil go for a short while. Many will turn on the Lord again and the Lord Jesus will put a stop to this once and for all. He calls all unbelievers to The Great White Throne Judgment where they will be sentenced to the everlasting FIRE, along with Satan.

The New Jerusalem will come down out the Heavens and will take its place on earth. Where everyone who had believed in the Lord Jesus Christ will live with him forever in Peace, No Sickness, No Depression, with Joy Unspeakable Joy.

moment_of_faith · Sep 15, 2012

The reason I issued the challenge is I believe we should look at all points of view. Now I have heard a lot of them, but I’m sure not all. The belief I put forth as someone called it the “ Left Behind Series” seems the more logical.

I say if we look at the world today the world is following the LITERAL VERSION of the BIBLE .

Daniel tells us in the latter days knowledge shall increase. Now that doesn’t mean we are all going to start doing huge equations, but it does mean we will be able to look at bible prophecy and see it start to come together.

Bookends · Sep 15, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

When Daniel says latter days, does he mean our age, or his age? Later days simply means the end of a peoples, nation, tribe, era, age.

For example:

Numbers 24:10-14
10 Then Balak’s anger was aroused against Balaam, and he struck his hands together; and Balak said to Balaam, “I called you to curse my enemies, and look, you have bountifully blessed them these three times! 11 Now therefore, flee to your place. I said I would greatly honor you, but in fact, the Lord has kept you back from honor.”
12 So Balaam said to Balak, “Did I not also speak to your messengers whom you sent to me, saying, 13 ‘If Balak were to give me his house full of silver and gold, I could not go beyond the word of the Lord, to do good or bad of my own will. What the Lord says, that I must speak’? 14 And now, indeed, I am going to my people. Come, I will advise you what this people will do to your people in the latter days.”

Clearly this "latter days" does not apply to any other time then the era in which it was written.

Another example:

Proverbs 19:20
20 Listen to counsel and receive instruction,
That you may be wise in your latter days.

Clearly the term "latter days" is referring to the nearness ones life on earth.

also look at Job 42:12

Thus, Daniel is not speaking of our latter days, nor his, but of the Theocracy of God in that day namely Israel, from then (Daniel's day) and until the 1st coming of Christ.

moment_of_faith · Sep 15, 2012

Well I was looking more for your own post of where you believe we are but I will answer this, but one thing your hast never seems to amaze me.

I'm going to use the king James for both of them since so many here like the king james ..

Numbers 24:14 And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

So excuse me if I misspoke -- Also can’t wait to see your challenge. When are you writing it ?

babyboyblue · Sep 15, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

I believe we're right on the verge of Jesus' return. I personally do not believe in a secret rapture, so I'm not expecting people to go missing and then tribulation and whatever else is suppose to happen.

Out of all the prophecy's the only things left are the crash of the economy and forced worship. The economy went south in 2008 and I doubt it will rebound. The only thing I'm expecting is for the Beast (image) power to start telling people to who/how/when to worship and then Jesus will return.

Also:

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Sounds to me there will be an explosion of socialism or a social network, people will not be focused on The Christ, but on their own selfish indulgence and it'll be during this time while people focus is elsewhere, Jesus will come.

It cannot be far.

Bookends · Sep 15, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

This is your error M_o_F, and I'll try to make this comment as loving and gentle as I can. You can't make scripture walk of all fours. Meaning that if a passage is written in a poetry fashion, you need to interpret it as poetry, not literally word for word. To interpret it literally, would be to interpret it in the means in which it was intend to be comprehended. Same goes for apocalyptic language. Apocalyptic language in the bible uses figurative language in which you find:

1) Similes - a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicitly compared, as in “she is like a rose.” Compare metaphor. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similes?s=t)

2) Metaphors - a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” Compare mixed metaphor, simile ( def. 1 ) .Metaphor | Define Metaphor at Dictionary.com

3) Hyperbole -
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.” Hyperbole | Define Hyperbole at Dictionary.com

You are intelligent so you get what I'm trying to say. The problem we have is that when people interpret the passage in wooden literalistic manner, and it's not supposed to be taking that way, we come up with all kinds meanings of the passages which leads to all kinds of false doctrines and off we go into fictional flights of fantasy.

For example,
Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This sounds like the end of the world and the 2nd coming of Christ, right? When has this ever happened? ok, well, lets interpret this in light of the OT.

Psalm 18 - David writes of His deliverance from his enemies and King Saul, (parenthesis are my comments)

7 Then the earth shook and trembled; (earthquakes are a part of life and happen all the time).
The foundations of the hills also quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
8 Smoke went up from His nostrils, (does God have nostrils? no, but if you have to take everything literally, then yes..We all know God is spirit)
And devouring fire from His mouth; (does God have a mouth?)
Coals were kindled by it. (did coals literally come out of God mouth and devour David's enemies?)
9 He bowed the heavens (when did this happen in David's day) also, and came down (He came down, why not call this the 1, or 2, or 3 advent?)
With darkness under His feet.
10 And He rode upon a cherub, and flew; (does God need a cherub to fly?)
He flew upon the wings of the wind. (seems to be the wind and clouds are God's vehicle of choice)
11 He made darkness His secret place; ( " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " )
His canopy around Him was dark waters ( " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " )
And thick clouds of the skies. (seems to be the wind and clouds are God's vehicle of choice)
12 From the brightness before Him,
His thick clouds passed with hailstones and coals of fire. (we know how David's enemies died, and not literal hailstones and coals of fire) (did this really happen, odd, there is no record of it, internal or external evidence)

13 The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice,
Hailstones and coals of fire. (again no evidence of this actually happening)
14 He sent out His arrows and scattered the foe, (does God need or have arrows, did arrows shoot out of heaven to scatter David's foes?)
Lightnings in abundance, and He vanquished them.
15 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered
At Your rebuke, O Lord,
At the blast of the breath of Your nostrils.

Another example:

Proclamation Against Egypt (Note the similar language)

19 The burden against Egypt.
Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud, (another advent of Christ or God? no..)
And will come into Egypt; (a literal coming, no.. a coming of Judgment)
The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,
And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

2 “I will set Egyptians against Egyptians;
Everyone will fight against his brother,
And everyone against his neighbor,
City against city, kingdom against kingdom. (sounds like Matthew 24:6-7 doesn't it? 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.)
3 The spirit of Egypt will fail in its midst;
I will destroy their counsel,
And they will consult the idols and the charmers,
The mediums and the sorcerers.
4 And the Egyptians I will give
Into the hand of a cruel master,
And a fierce king will rule over them,”
Says the Lord, the Lord of hosts.

5 The waters will fail from the sea,
And the river will be wasted and dried up. (did this happen literally? show me..It means that the providence and provisioning of God shall be removed from them, God sends rain to the just and unjust right? )
6 The rivers will turn foul;
The brooks of defense will be emptied and dried up;
The reeds and rushes will wither.
7 The papyrus reeds by the River, by the mouth of the River,
And everything sown by the River,
Will wither, be driven away, and be no more.
8 The fishermen also will mourn; (the fish would be dead if the river was dried up)
All those will lament who cast hooks into the River,
And they will languish who spread nets on the waters.
9 Moreover those who work in fine flax
And those who weave fine fabric will be ashamed;
10 And its foundations will be broken.
All who make wages will be troubled of soul.

11 Surely the princes of Zoan are fools;
Pharaoh’s wise counselors give foolish counsel.
How do you say to Pharaoh, “I am the son of the wise,
The son of ancient kings?”
12 Where are they?
Where are your wise men?
Let them tell you now,
And let them know what the Lord of hosts has purposed against Egypt.
13 The princes of Zoan have become fools;
The princes of Noph are deceived;
They have also deluded Egypt,
Those who are the mainstay of its tribes.
14 The Lord has mingled a perverse spirit in her midst;
And they have caused Egypt to err in all her work,
As a drunken man staggers in his vomit.
15 Neither will there be any work for Egypt,
Which the head or tail,
Palm branch or bulrush, may do.

Also,
Ezekiel 32: Lamentation for pharaoh and Egypt

6 “I will also water the land with the flow of your blood, (I doubt there was enough blood in the world for this to happen literally)
Even to the mountains; (blood flows up hill huh?)
And the riverbeds will be full of you.
7 When I put out your light,
I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you,
And bring darkness upon your land,”
Says the Lord God.

Also read Isaiah 13:9-10

and..

Isaiah 34:4-5 Judgment proclaimed against the nations Isaiah 34

New King James Version (NKJV)
Judgment against Edom

4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, ( I still see the heavens, the stars, they haven't dissolved yet)
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; (same deal, the heavens are still there)
All their host shall fall down (if they fell down, the earth would be obliviated. Same thing with your rapture verse in Matthew 24:29-30)
As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven;
Indeed it shall come down on Edom,
And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

Thanks for allowing to me make my point. Sorry for the length again, but is is necessary to demonstrate how apocalyptic language is used in the bible, including the Olivet discourse and Revelation. I've been told that John uses 350 - 500 references from the OT in Revelations (I never counted it for myself). You need to recognize the genre of the passages and books you read, if you don't, you'll fall pray to Tim LaHaye's "Left Behind" which is nothing but a good fictional book of his own imaginations.

moment_of_faith · Sep 15, 2012

I tell you what. I can't read all of that. Not even going to try. I said make basically without scripture ..

Bookends · Sep 15, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

This the of the issues I have with the KJV. Most of the modern version have it right:

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” NKJV

Daniel is being told to shut his prophecy up because it is not yet time, time of what? the time of Christ's coming. There was @400 years for all of Daniel's (God's) prophecies to come true. That's why Daniel was told to shut the book and seal it, for the time of the end is not yet, end of what? the time of the end of the Jewish age, the Temple worship, animal sacrifices etc etc. Daniel does not say until the time of the end of the world here...nor does the KJV say that.

"Many shall run to and fro, and Knowledge shall increase...Jesus was born and the exact time God planned, there was relatively peace between all the nations and Roman was busy making road through all the land, inhabited land, the region that belong to Rome. So this time many people where going to and fro, because roads where being made. Also, it made it easier for knowledge to be sent as well, for copies of the OT scripture and NT writers (even thought the bible wasn't compiled yet in what we have today) sent their copies to the Churches in that time.

Knowledge shall increase, knowledge certainly did increase. But what is knowledge. The Word is knowledge. Knowledge is the word. What did Christ command the disciples to do? Take the Word of the gospel to the Jew first, and then to the gentiles. The word spread like wild fire, it went into all the Regions of the Roman Empire and beyond. This here is Daniel is a glimpse of the great commission. The Word has gone out and is still going out. The knowledge being spoke of here began with John the Baptist when he started declaring the Kingdom of God was at hand.

Proverbs 18:15
15 The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge,
And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

Lets look at the word end that is used in Daniel 12:4

#7093 קֵץ qets {kates}
1) end 1a) end, at the end of (of time) 1b) end (of space)

Sounds like you are right M_o_F, at first glance. Lets see how it is used in other passages.

Genesis 6:13
The Ark Prepared

13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Was the really the end of all flesh? Feel yourself, do you feel flesh? lol.. The end here means the end of all the wickedness that filled the earth. Here context tells us what the meaning of end is. I heard a preach on the radio the other day who said "do worry about context that much", WHAT? if you don't look at context too you'll go off the rail.

Habakkuk 2:2-3

2 Then the Lord answered me and said:
“Write the vision
And make it plain on tablets,
That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time;
But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.
Though it tarries, wait for it; (oh it tarries alright, we are Tarrying now)
Because it will surely come, (it sure will)
It will not tarry. (It it is final)

What end is God speaking of here? You figure it out. Verse 2 has a clue.

At one time I reached the end of the age of my infancy, then the end of the toddler stage, then childhood, adolescents etc. etc. Most of the when "qets" is used in the OT, it has a time frame qualifier after it. When it doesn't, you are forced to find the meaning in the context of the book or passage.

The context for "time of the end" in Daniel 12:4 - found in Daniel 12:7

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered (Israelites), all these things shall be finished. It took exactly 3 and 1/2 years for Jerusalem to fall,70AD, and at that point the angel tells Daniel all these things shall be finished! what things? the things that Daniel wrote about in general, the coming of Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem. The Holy people is a reference to natural Israel. For we know from the NT that the Church of today will never be shattered. In Matthew 16:18, (NKJV) Jesus says "18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

and Ephesians 1:21-22;
21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age (the Jewish age, OT covenant that was passing way) but also in that which is to come (the fullness of the gentiles, the visible Church age, our age which demarcation began at the cross and destruction of the temple). No other ages is mentioned. After this age is the eternal state which can't be classified as an age IMO. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

WolfInOxHide · Sep 15, 2012

I believe it is a revelation of salvation and correction, not doom and destruction.
I believe a spiritual tribulation ends with the second coming, leaving the remainder in a corrected 1000 year sabbath.
To have free will, we must be given the choice to interpret symbolism in a negative light, or a positive one.
Blindly following the teachings of the masses is a surrender of free will.

Timeline wise, I believe it's about to "start", even though it's been underway for 2000 years.
I believe the beast has been rising out of the sea the whole time. It's just a matter of seeing it.
I believe the horsemen have always ridden. On any given day 25%+ of all death already occurs from conquest, strife, greed/famine, and pestilence.
I believe the pre-trib doom and gloom prophecies are the very rumors of wars that we will hear.
The masses speculating "exactly" what terrible things God and man will do in every detail.

We look towards the wrong kind of harvest because we embrace vengeance instead of mercy.
Hail will destroy that idea of the harvest.
And a talent, like a bushel, is as much as a man can bear.

If we look deep enough, I believe the book of revelation even tells us that most will interpret it wrong.
Because it's shown to servants in verse 1, but there are plenty of people reading it and coming to conclusions that are not serving Christ.
We nit-pick Daniel for beasts and kingdoms, but overlook Ezekiel, Moses, and Elijah.

Bookends · Sep 15, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

Ok, I believe that most of Scripture is already fulfilled. Most of Revelation deals with 70AD but with much application for today. There maybe some parallel themes going on but I'm not sure and that's all my speculation. All we are are waiting is the 2nd coming of Christ. When Christ comes again both the wicked and the righteous will be judged. Both will be judged according to all there deeds. Thus, some wicked will suffer more then others and some righteous will receive more or better rewards (I don't know what that looks like exactly)...After judgment the eternal state starts and is without end.

I may be possible that when Christ does come the world is total chaos, but we shouldn't dwell on that. The world was in chaos through out History, So I'm not sure what or how bad is bad. I believe the thousand years is an age, the visible church age that we are now in. It's not a literal thousand years. John uses a thousand years to demonstrate the full and complete era of this time. For many and most passages of OT refer to "a thousand" in a figurative sense - meaning a complete whole of something. Therefore, we shouldn't even be having this debate! We should be about our Fathers business and enjoying our relationship with the Father through the Son, and making our lives count for the kingdom of God.

Is that better M_o_F?

PS. sorry, I thought you wanted me to answer Daniel 12:4

Bookends · Sep 15, 2012

Also,

Revelation is a memorial to Christians of what the first Godly Kingdom became for their lack of obedience and love for the Lord. It is also a warning to those who are not in Christ of what will ultimately happen to them if they die in their sins.

The White horse, is the gospel going out into the world, all pure and holy. Christ also rides a white horse at the second coming, signifying His holiness. When people are regenerated, Christ puts on us a white robe, signifying that we are now in Him, having our sins forgiven and removed. Then it becomes our job to strive for Holiness through Jesus Christ, not by our own works.

Skinski7 · Sep 15, 2012

We live in a time when Satan he prevailed over the church "system" and has convinced multitudes of people that they can get saved IN their sins.

Justification has been separated from sanctification.

Grace has been twisted into simply being a "free gift" instead of the power of God which directs us how to walk.

Repentance has been twisted into a simple change of mind and a confession of one's sinful condition instead of a change of mind wrought by a brokeness which effects a complete forsaking of all known rebellion to God.

Faith has been twisted into simple "trust" instead of the active working dynamic by which a saint is a WORKER TOGETHER with God.

Salvation has been twisted into a "package system" or a "legal provision" and thus is completely disconnected from the deeds done in the body. Salvation is only really taught as being set free from the wrath of God and not from the bondage of sin itself.

Jesus death on the cross has been perverted into a doctrine called "Penal Substitution" which was borne in the reformation as a development of Anselm's Satisfaction Model. Thus the sinner actually DYING WITH Christ in repentance where the old man is crucified has been completely eliminated from the Gospel.

Thus professing Christian's of all denominations are under the spirit of error falsely believing that they get saved IN their sins and that they will always be rebellious to God until the day they die. They await on God to change their desires not realising that God has set forth repentance by which their desires ought to be crucified.

The strong delusion that fools the world in in full effect with the pastors dispensing the Mark of the Beast to their unwitting congregations as everyone worships the false image of Jesus which appears just like the real thing.

Trax · Sep 15, 2012

Bookends said:

I disaree. The greater reason for the book of Rev is so the Jews who will be sealed and other
Jews that accept Jesus, will know what is about to happen. The reason they get "sealed" by
God is that there aren't any Christians, still on the planet, to witness to them. Look at the
apostosy, the falling away. You disagree with something in this thread and I disagree with you.
Isn't it going to be bad enough for the 144k, without having 20 denominations jumping in
debating scripture to them? In the very same chapter that describes the 144k and from which
tribe, also describes where the church is at this time, at the throne of God. The church isn't
appointed for wrath, and those 144k aren't appointed for our confussion.

WolfInOxHide · Sep 16, 2012

Imagine the tribulation that this would cause

Bookends · Sep 16, 2012

Trax said:

Why do you fail to recognize the first and greatest apostasy by the natural and ancient nation of Israel/Jerusalem who actually claimed Caesar to be their king instead of their messiah? And crucified Him? What greater apostasy can there be, besides each individual rejecting Christ up and into their physical death?

moment_of_faith · Sep 16, 2012

Trax -- Nice Post –

Bookends -- you can't have it both ways. That's why I have asked you to make your own Thread / POST and put it down in words like I did, because you will see how you jump around. How it doesn't make sense.

See you can’t have it both ways. If prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD then we should be in the 1000 year kingdom, but we are not. So the wars and everything going on now is still all working together to fulfill prophecy.

The bible tells us when we see Jerusalem surrounded by armies’ time is near. Now they may have been surrounded in 70AD but they are again in 2012 AD –

See that should make you say. The same thing is happening again ??? That’s strange --
How can that be if it was fulfilled in 70AD ????

Because it wasn’t fulfilled

Now what has this generation SEEN ??? I believe the 6 out of the 10 biggest earth quakes have been since 1948 Israel birth, We have seen the roaring seas “ Tsunamis “ that has killed hundreds of thousands of people. Wars – Kingdom against Kingdom “ Muslims are fighting Muslims” and ethnic group “ Shiites “ against ethnic group “ Sunnis”.

We are now watching with so called global warming droughts that is hurting our food supplies, “FAMINE” many country have had it for a long time, and we can tell by them when you don’t have enough food then you get pestilence. This GLOBAL WARMING has effected all nations. Jesus tells us 1/3 of the trees and all the grass will be burnt up.

So if it did in 70 AD it is doing it again in 2012 – So 70AD wasn’t the time. Is this ??? I believe so.
Lets say Israel is whipped off the map again. How long will it take for them to come back ? because we have to have an Israel to fulfill prophecy. Another 2000 years? You know with all the science and the muslims that will be almost impossible. The bible will be history in a few years if the lord doesn’t return and return soon.

moment_of_faith · Sep 16, 2012

The book of revelation is a quick reference guide to everyone living in the last 7 years ..

It's a big difference between king and GOD

moment_of_faith · Sep 16, 2012

Also the rejection of Jesus had to happen so the gentiles could be grafted in. So on just that we know prophecy wasn't fulfilled

moment_of_faith · Sep 16, 2012

This so show everyone who and what you are dealing with here on Christian Chat. They can't even put their beliefs down but they can tell everyone else how wrong they are.
The bad thing is maybe they have the answers, but that can't share. It seems like they would rather you go to hell then them share the message..
Unbelievable

Bookends · Sep 17, 2012

moment_of_faith said:

Laughing, with comments like that "it seems like they would rather you go to hell" make them not want to share. That's the spirit M_o_F. I expressed my views, all I get from you and some others comments like 'you're adding to the word of God" and "I don't know what I'm talking about", babel like that. Perhaps people don't talk about it because the don't know enough to do so, undecided, or just plainly don't want to be ridiculed or ostracized for their own limited understanding of scripture.

Eschatology is not essential Christian Doctrine. Meaning we can set these things aside or at times debate vigorously over them with compromising essential truth and dividing the body over it. Never once have I read you saying we can debate over this, or I could be wrong, all systems of eschatology have error and let me rethink or study this. I used to be in you camp of eschatology, but to me, IMO, scripture clearly doesn't teach it.

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