The dead are asleep

[LawofLove]

You know I was actually giving this some serious thought because it seems that the vast majority of the time, people use the Old Testament to prove soul sleep, and the New Testament to prove an intermediate state.

I'm thinking could it be true that people were just simply "dead" in the Old Testament (pre-Christ) but now go to be with the Lord in a conscious state in the New Testament (post-Christ). The good and the bad went to Sheol which could just simply mean the grave.

Because the Old Testament does seem to speak of death as being the end and does not explicitly suggest consciousnesses after death. The New Testament is somewhat of a different story though.

I mean the dead did come back to life after Jesus's resurrection.

Matthew 27:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I have been doing some research on the immortality of the soul and it does seem to have some pagan roots. Seems like it was something maybe rooted in ancient Egyptian religions and then infiltrated Greek culture through a Greek philosopher named Plato. The Hebrews in the Old Testament didn't seem to explicitly suggest a belief in an intermediate state.

You might find this helpful to. So I humbly submit them to you


1Co_15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

You might find this helpful to. So I humbly submit them to you


1Co_15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I'm a little more open to this idea than I used to be. Especially after doing some research, but there are still some New Testament verse's that require some mental gymnastics to get around if soul sleep is true. However, I feel that there are verses in the Old Testament that require some mental gymnastics to get around if an intermediate state is true.

It does seem strange that the Bible refers to death as an enemy but (like Bullinger said) most Christians see it as a gateway to Paradise.

I dont know. I'll just keep studying and see where it leads me.

 

[RedTent]

=Closemyeyes2cU; I'm a little more open to this idea than I used to be. Especially after doing some research, but there are still some New Testament verse's that require some mental gymnastics to get around if soul sleep is true. However, I feel that there are verses in the Old Testament that require some mental gymnastics to get around if an intermediate state is true.

It does seem strange that the Bible refers to death as an enemy but (like Bullinger said) most Christians see it as a gateway to Paradise.

I dont know. I'll just keep studying and see where it leads me.

I don’t see what is so complicated about it. There are two kinds of death scripture talks about, the death of those who go without any knowledge of God and who truly die, and those who live on with the Lord. Through what Christ did after the cross, we have forgiveness and eternal life available to us. In the OT it was spoken of as sleep when they would live eternally. How could you say they died when the NT speaks of them alive? In the NT death is spoken of differently, and there is a strong hint that now those spoken of as asleep in the OT will not be asleep any longer but live with Christ.

Christ is eternal, the sacrificial system was a “shadow” of Christ. A shadow is made by something real, so even though it happened in our time, in God’s time it is eternal or without time. Christ’s work was there in the OT, but not fulfilled.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

I don’t see what is so complicated about it. There are two kinds of death scripture talks about, the death of those who go without any knowledge of God and who truly die, and those who live on with the Lord. Through what Christ did after the cross, we have forgiveness and eternal life available to us. In the OT it was spoken of as sleep when they would live eternally. How could you say they died when the NT speaks of them alive? In the NT death is spoken of differently, and there is a strong hint that now those spoken of as asleep in the OT will not be asleep any longer but live with Christ.

Christ is eternal, the sacrificial system was a “shadow” of Christ. A shadow is made by something real, so even though it happened in our time, in God’s time it is eternal or without time. Christ’s work was there in the OT, but not fulfilled.

See thats the thing though, the intermediate state is based off of "hints". There is nothing really explicit, depending on how literal you want to take the story of the rich man and Lazarus or the souls under the altar in revelation.

 

[chesser]

Sometimes when I'm bored and I dont have anything better to do I like to read rebuttals to things that I believe.
I have to say that this is probably the strongest argument I have ever come across in favor of cessation of the soul at death. Not saying I believe it, but he does make a strong argument.

DCox: Bullinger - Rich man and Lazarus: An Intermediate State?

Why would you revive this thread!?

 

[Bookends]

Want more evidence against Soul sleep!

When John the revelator was called up to the 3rd heaven, He saw the dead saints who where beheaded. No doubt in my mind these saints where dead. Revelation 6:9
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Stephen before His death saw heaven open up and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Now if soul sleep was true, then why would Stephen see God on His throne with the Son at His right hand? Very simple, the Lord received his spirit.

Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,

Gensis 5:24
24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. I suppose Enoch is in soul sleep now. NOT. So God took Enoch and Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) just so they could sleep.

Matthew 17:1-4, Jesus Transfigured on the Mount - need I say more about this passage?

Did Jesus soul sleep in the grave before His resurrection? no, He went into Abraham's bosom (acts 1:31), which is Hades the intermediate state for both unsaved and saved. Although the save are across the gulf from a place of torment, called paradise. I do not believe Hell exists yet or it's just empty because the great white judgment is still future a future event. Also see Luke 16:22: The parable of the rich man and Lazarus
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Also Revelation 20:13
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Are the dead going to be sleeping during this event? I never says they were awakened. Sleep is just a metaphor for dead on earth, our soul are eternal.

Matthew 22:32
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

This was a huge thread so I didn't state all the verse that support my view. I won't re-post the obvious ones. But you know what? Ignorance never settles a question.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to believe. I'm just doing my own research. I dont depend on tradition, but I seek things out on my own. Believe what you want but I study and decide for my self what is true or not.

 

[Mich223]

Now I say to myself when someone dies: He or She is in Heaven or awaiting the resurrection. Hope God is merciful enough that no one will be in Hell (a nice thought).

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Do all people sleep at death? What of those that have eternal life in them now?

What if it really says "Life beyond comprehension?"

 

[LawofLove]

Want more evidence against Soul sleep!

When John the revelator was called up to the 3rd heaven, He saw the dead saints who where beheaded. No doubt in my mind these saints where dead. Revelation 6:9
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Stephen before His death saw heaven open up and said,

 

[LawofLove]

Want more evidence against Soul sleep!

When John the revelator was called up to the 3rd heaven, He saw the dead saints who where beheaded. No doubt in my mind these saints where dead. Revelation 6:9
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Stephen before His death saw heaven open up and said,

 

[LawofLove]

Bookends:

Well the last two that I posted did not work. But what I said to your last post was most of those verse have been explained so I will let you do the leg work of reading over the whole tread to find them. I could just pick apart your verses but that would not be a very wise way to spend my time. Plus the bible says study to find your self approved. So I cant do it for you.

 

[Geometar]

The dead are fall asleep but not litteraly!They are actice more then they were in body.They are in spiritual world,they dont need any rest,nor they sleep or dream.

 

[LawofLove]

The dead are fall asleep but not litteraly!They are actice more then they were in body.They are in spiritual world,they dont need any rest,nor they sleep or dream.

Sir where in the bible do you support your clam? Other wise its just your own opinion.