the Gospel, abraham and paul.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

Genesis 12 " Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; "

abram then rescues Lot in the battle of the kings, and meets melchezidek who brings him bread and wine, and blesses Him along with God Most High. again this is before the law was given through the levitical priesthood order.

Genesis 14 " And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. ( see hebrews 4-9) 19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."

Genesis 15 " And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

after Isaac is born, God then puts abrahams faith to the test.

Genesis 22 " And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of......

v5 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. .....v6And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

9And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

11And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

...v 15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. "

paul says the gospel was preached to abraham in advance here and that it is a promise for the gentiles to be blessed through abrams seed. That God is promising to " provide a lamb for himself for an offering" to give" His only begotten son" that all nations of the earth would be blessed in abrahams seed, and that seed paul says is Christ. Notice this is not of the dovenant God made later with israel, but it was before. the law then excludes all people on earth. then Jesus comes and sends His gospel out to all people of earth saying " God has forgiven us, come home repent and return to God"

so abraham was hearing about Jesus here in this story. and of course the nature and details of the story......" the Father sacrificing His only begotten Son, carrying the wood upon his back up the mount, being laid upon the altar and bound upon the wood" ...it sort of makes sense what paul is saying here regarding the gospel preached to abraham.

Galatians 3 " Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. ( <<<not of the law) 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. ( not abram, but abraham) 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ ( in abraham) , the law, ( of moses) which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, <<<that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

all this said, if abraham had not obeyed God he would never have been the man of faith. he was blessed because he believed God enough to actually do what God said to do, because he believed if he did it as God said, the promise would come as God said. the promise isnt " i will bless you abram" it is " get thee up and get out of your homeleand and go where i show you and i will bless you and all people ofthe earth...."

Thats what we have to do in Christ, we have to believe what Jesus said to do, and how to believe and do it because we Believe his promise about receiving eternal Life in His Kingdom that is in Heaven. Faith does not mean we need not believe what Jesus Christ said, its the reason we should believe Him. because He is the One God sent to tell us these things about the resurrection and eternal Life. Faith believes Gods instructions, and His promises.

God bless. think of paul in ot context hes explaining things from scripture.

Shamah · Jan 17, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

[/FONT]

OneFaith · Jan 17, 2018

Under Moses we obeyed God’s law physically. Under Christ we obey God’s law spiritually. Either way it’s still God’s law- which will never be done away with. What was nailed to the cross (forevermore) was the physical way of obeying God’s law. We still obey God’s law, we just obey it spiritually unlike under the old covenant. (Such as a physical lamb sacrifice, or a physical rest on a physical day of the week).

Johnny_B · Jan 17, 2018

OneFaith said:

Yes the sacrifice for our sins is an eternal offering and our rest is an eternal rest in Him. Here's the beautiful part of the Law of God.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”

Leviticus 19:17-18 “‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.”

The Lord always wanted us to love Him with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves, if Cain would of loved Abel in this way with all of mankind following that we would of never had a murder. Hate brings murder in the heart, loving others as yourself would prevent all of it (murder), the Lord knows the best.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

Shamah said:

bro the torah has no life in it anymore, im sorry we disagree on that. when you see Jesus saying " I came to fulfill the law"

that means that Jesus, is the completion, the culmination, the manifestation of the Law and prophets. for instance

the Law sets this "covenant in the law" the pasover"

exodus 12 " Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. <<< ( remember this here in red) 7And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 8And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof. 10And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire. 11And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it isthe LORD'S passover. 12For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. 13And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt."

Ok so theres no dispute the passover is then instated as an ordinance to be observed every year by the people of Israel. this is a fact in the " torah" the passover feast of remembering when God delivered them from slavery in egypt. a remembrance for them to do. im sure you would agree with what ive said so Far. but now look what Jesus the Messiah, says on the passover

Genesis 22:8 " And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

john 1:29 " The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

luke 22:1 " Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

so Jesus on the last passover says

Luke 22 : And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you"

do you see How Jesus "fulfilled" that one aspect of the Law? and to confirm this to you if you dont see it paul says " Christ our passover Lamb" Jesus while many would disagree with this, was not beneath the law of moses, He is the fulfillment of the things in the mosaic Law and the prophets. they were always preaching Jesus , but the people hard hardened Hearts then, they saw through a veil, exactly like paul says. Jesus DID fulfill all things, the law yet has not passed away , but we are not in the covenant of Moses lol im not sure what you arent understanding about the fact that there are 2 different covemants in the Bible, 2 religions really One is judaism, it is solely based on the torah, and prophets. pure jews are still today...awaiting the messiah.

the reason for this is that they did not recognise the truth that the Law of moses is not Gods Law, it was a shadow of the Law that Jesus set in the earth. im not guessing at this, i can show you prophecy after prophecy that explain its coming a new thing, not according to the covenant i made with those i led from egypt....but a new thing im going to do, before i do it im telling you"...but the jews trusted in the law thinking " we have the law, were the chosen, the messiah will come and make our city the rule of earth when He comes.....

and here is why earlier i said remember this line from the Law. " the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening"

Now consider who it is that is most responsible for Jesus death in terms of how the story is told in the gospel ? think carefully was it not all the head of the levitical priesthood ? and also the elders of the people? and also the scribes of the Law? and also the pharisees who were the strictest keepers of the Law, those with long " phylacteries" and proud Hearts and blinded eyes and stopped up ears.

matt 26 " And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.3Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, ( understand, this is the levitical priesthood all of it ( see hebrews 4-9) both the High priest, and the chief priests, also the elders of the people of Israel the appointed preisthood of the mosaic Law) 4And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.

v14 "Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, 15And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. ( side note jesus Life was sold, for the pricethe price of an oxens life in the law) 16And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him."

mark 14:47 " mark 14 " And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

mark 14 : And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes. ( again brother this is all of the levitical priesthood order) 54And Peter followed him afar off, even into the palace of the high priest: and he sat with the servants, and warmed himself at the fire. 55And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none. 56For many bare false witness <<< ( broken law)against him, but their witness agreed not together." <<< they cannot put him to death because of the law that says this.

mark 14 " And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. ( a direct reference to daniel 7 the eternal Kingdom given to the son of man in daniels vision)

63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? 64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death. 65And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands."

can you see brother? Israels congregation did come together to slaughter the passover Lamb of God. this is One example, the entirety of the law and prophets, are fulfilled in the same way the passover has been. when Jesus came it was the Lords Word given all along coming into manifestation. Like Israel was delivered from slavery to egypt through moses << pattern for >>>, we are delivered from slavery to sin and death by Jesus the true Mediator of Gods Law. like moses was born in a time pharoah decreed all israel males born be killed and miraculously survived in egypt. a pattern for Jesus, born in a time when herod ordered all Israels children slaughtered because of Jesus birth, Jesus miraculously survives when an angel tells jospeh to leave immediately and they flee , to egypt. its all a pattern of what was coming in the future. i really truly believe if you would study and pray from hebrews 4-9 it may really open up some ideas you may not have considered before.

Great Scriptures by the way Bro, i hope you understand disagreements are never more than that with me, and i really do Love you, have always for a long while enjoyed fellowship. i think simply we can all have our views, and really not have to be offended, we can always learn things from the Bible never really know much, but gotta write and speak what you know even if no one hears or reads it

God bless yu in great abundance always brother H.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

Johnny_B said:

The Lord always wanted us to love Him with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves,

correct. why did the israelites think Gods word, was going to Kill them? didnt they Know He wants us to Love Him, BY Loving one another as we Love ourselves ( Meaning we feed and clothe ourselves, we take care of ourselves, and others actions of Love is what God wants. true Godly Love. the covenant Law does tell us to Love, but it is given to sinful people, so it appears as " what NOT to do"

thou shalt NOT commit adultery" thou shalt Not Kill" thou shalt Not Lie" ...ect the ten commandments really are about How to treat each other, so why do they appear that way as if they are assuming you want to kill and lie and steal and commit adultery? because of the people it was given to

1 timothy 1 " Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust."

why would God, give a holy Law, to sinners?

romans 3:19 " Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

wait huh why would God want the whole world to become Guilty before Him?

ephesians 2 " But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

man Now Knows what its like to follow sin into death, it seperates us from God and man Knows that without God we will die. above all man Now sees God Like He is, like He was in eden, No Law, freedom and dominion, favor and grace to man. the way God appears in the Mosaic Law, is looking through sinners eyes at Him. they see fire and storm, lightning and smoke darkness they tremble and quake and beg not to hear anything after only 10 commandments. they could not approach God or they died instantly he warned them again and again.

Jesus is How to truly See God, you see One that is truly willing to come down from His throne and glory, be born in a manger , grow a humble man, preach the gospel of salvation to us tell us the truth about God and Life and death, then, suffer every indignity and shame beatings and eventually nailed to a cold wooden cross, just to save your Life. it turns out, God isnt looking to destroy Mankind, He isnt a raging God who looks at us like ants that are to be stoned to death after the first mistake. it turns out what God really wants is not a law of sacrifice, but a Law of mercy and humility, Justice and compassion all for each other, his laws are the right ways to treat others, the Law of Christ that is, not Moses. rather than Moses ;Law stone the sinner, its forgive the sinner as Christ forgave you all your many sins, be like Jesus thats the simplicity of everything.

we are not those coming to a mountain that will devour us if we touch it, thats the old mosaic Law. we have come to the Heavenly things, the true Law of Christ, the true preisthood of melchezidek, the true understanding of God , all because we see Jesus who came to Love us and save us and give us things we cannot measure or really imagine or comprehend. Gods Law is not

leviticus 20:10 " And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them..."

while adultery is still sin now and forever, and still death now and forever, there is a difference in Gods truth. the law says once the person commits adultery they are surely sentanced to death,

Jesus says to the One caught in adultery " has no one condemned you woman? neither do I condemn you, now go and sin no more" one offers repentance because of Gods Gracious salvation to the woman, im sure she changed Her Life having been pulled from the grips of Death. according to the law of moses, that woman was dead, there was no place for repentance as the pharisees said moses commanded them on the law that adulterers must be stoned, Jesus does not follow this commandment, instead He loves her, pardons her sins and tells Her go now and sin no more.

the truth is this. in the law it appears as if God is looking for any reason to destroy His people, he slaughters them again and again. in the Gospel, God appears as One who is looking for any reason to forgive and save us, One who values your Life more than His. One who does not destroy sinners when they approach His presence, but one who goes into thier Homes, hugs them, Heals thier ailements, teaches them the truth of God, shows them His compassion and Love for man, and One who suffered all evils that we can Know all good.

God is the same, man changed. we were good, we were corrupted and became par good part evil, Jesus came to bring us back to the good where we see God as He is. you know before adam sinned, God is constantly blessing Him, giving Him all the earth and all life in it. gives Hium the authority to name the animals, speak the law of marriage...God is constantly blessing adam as a favorite son. after adam falls into sin, things change he is expelled from Gods presence in eden, and no longer allowed to eat from the tree of Life, cursed to death. Jesus is the One leading us back to the relationship we had with God in the beginning. gifting us eternal Life, an inheritance among His saints, Akingdom, Gods Presence forever. you cant truly see or Hear God, in the Mosaic Law, thats why the Gospel was sent.

garee · Jan 17, 2018

Moses an apostle sent by God, like Paul or Abraham also an apostle/prophet who were sent with the word of prophecy, the words God put on their mouths....after no man (God is not a man as us)

Moses who used as a shadow to represent the true, not seen was given two kinds of laws. One to govern ceremonies as ceremonial laws and the other morals laws used to govern the morals of whole world.

Moses himself according to his own mind has no law to give, neither moral or ceremonial. Moses was being used to represent the law of God that will be in effect all the way up till the end of time.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Moses is used to represent the law of God in that way found in Mathew 5 above. Another way it can be discovered by looking at a parable found in the Old Testament where the law of God will be in effect up until men enter the Promised Land .Typified by Moses not entering. This is another piece of Jewish history that is true yet used as a historical parable to hide the spiritual meaning of the gospel in respect to the sufferings of Christ beforehand.

Without parables in that way Christ spoke not.

The law of God will not strike the Rock typified as Christ twice and cause double jeopardy.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? Num 20: 8-10

There the rod which produced almonds( fruit) as a sign to those who do not trust prophecy (God’s word) was used to cause double jeopardy showing us it will not be in effect in the new order .Striking it once would of brought out the gospel signified by the antitype water, as that seen ,

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. Num 20:11-12

Moses the law giver (believed the Lord not,) no faith, walking by sight in false pride

The law of God according to the letter therefore shall not bring Christians as the new creation into the land which he has given them but rather that alone which will bring them in ...his grace, according to Christ’s work of faith, as a three day labor of His love as that which satisfied all the just commands of the law will bring us in as “payment in full”. It will be what does bring Christians into the land which he have given them called the new Jerusalem, heavenly , not of here the earthly.

The heavenly is the bride prepared by her husband Christ that we call the church. She is made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house not seen , as one wife made up of all the nations of the world, she is also called the mother of us all.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

OneFaith said:

Under Moses we obeyed God’s law physically. Under Christ we obey God’s law spiritually. Either way it’s still God’s law- which will never be done away with"

what you are not grasping though is Jesus did not teach the same things as moses, moses taught contrary things to what Jesus taught 2 different " laws" for 2 different peoples. God began to speak to the israelites and they said this

the law of moses is like looking through a dark veil trying to see Gods word, trying to see what God is Like. its like this because the people asked God not to speak to them because they would surely die. please follow me for a minute so you can understand what im saying. God speaks just the ten commandments and then

exodus 20 : And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

they are afraid like adam was after he sinned when He heard Gods voice, so He hid from God because God said that he would surely die. man associates through deception Gods word, with death. so God responds to moses after the people ask this

deuteronomy 18: According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

this is Jesus, peter confirms that it is Him in acts chapter 3. stephen in chapter 7. paul elswhere in acts.

what im saying is this, the law is not for the born again children of God, the Gospel is. the Gospel are Gods true Words for all the earth, the blessing of abraham for all families of the earth. thats the law of God. the mosaic Law is not of the same covenant it was only ever meant to lead us, to the One God promised to send waaaaay back when Moses was the mediator for Israel. why woulod God say " according to all they desired when they asked not to let me speak or they would die, therefore i will send Jesus to speak all of my words that they must all hear and keep? if he gave the same thing through moses? why promise a greater One to come later to speak His words?

simply because the mosaic Law, was only meant to lead people to Jesus, you are right its still there for every unrepentant sinner because the entire purpoose is this

romans 3:19 " Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." <<<<<

the Law of moses is not meant to save anyo0ne or make anyone righteous, it is to teach us what sin is and its consequence so that we will realize we are lost, because we need a savior but unless we realize were guilty and sinners, we will never change our actions. the law of moses is true and valid, but it has its purpose and place in Gods plan, once a person meets Jesus Christ the savior, Knowing He is the Only way...... the law has done its work in the person. Gods word is not a random bunch of scriptures its a very articulate detailed story, and a book full of instructions from God to man.....all we find at the end of the rainbow, is the words and ways of Jesus Christ and salvation is found no where else in the universe. we can know about alvation by seeing what the offer is by the One who offers it. matt1:1- the last verse of John. thats salvations doctrine

, Jesus words are those that will never pass away. Jesus did not speak the same law how can you not see it? and what do you mean physically and spiritually how do you spiritually obey God without physically obeying him? we follow the spirit with out bodies

im not sure what " spiritually obeying God means could you expound on that a bit please.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

garee said:

Moses himself according to his own mind has no law to give, neither moral or ceremonial. Moses was being used to represent the law of God that will be in effect all the way up till the end of time."

nooo lol not at all. untill "all things are fulfilled" thats what Jesus came to do, fulfill all things in the law and prophets

Moses was foretelling of Jesus, but they could not see it because of thier hardened Hearts THAT is why the law is different and heres a simple example. im curious if you will admit that Jesus is teaching a different command,

They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

just so were clear Heres what moses wrote in the law.

deuteronomy 24 : When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; "

so first, Jesus says that moses Law is not the law from the beginning, but that it was the way it was, because thier hearts were hard, couldnt be a dispute yet id think. so clearly moses was teaching something different from the start. and Jesus says a completely different thing than Moses.

Moses = if you marry and are unhappy write a divorce certificate and send your wife away, she can remarry, but after that, not then again to you" thats a clear direction..

Jesus = " moses said that because your hearts were hard, but i tell you do not divorce unless it is because of fornication, if you do and remarry you have commirted adultery. those two things in no realm are the same, they are contrary and we Know why also because Like Jesus said thier Hearts were hardened. thats what paul is saying

1 timothy 1 : Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust."

the law of moses is for the people who when moses went to get the commandments, immediately made arron make them a golden calf to worship. they like God repeatedly said, were stiff necked, rebellious, hard hearted sinners. the law was in fact mediated by Moses, it is not the word of God that Jesus came forth with. Moses doctrine is meant to lead a person to Jesus doctrine, but they are by design quite contrary, because they are meant One for the old sinful man, and the other forthe new born again man.

thats why the law says " if you disobey my commands you must be put to death"

and Jesus says " anyone who keeps my word, will never see death"

they are contrary one is the fleshs food one is the spirits food. the law of moses, actually empowers or strenghtens sin in us

1 cor 15:56 " The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

this goes back to romans 7 where paul is explaining how the sinful nature operates through the opportunity afforded by the commandment. and it leads to a conflict of the flesh and spirit. man was created good, and then we were corrupted and became good and evil both or " sinners" when the law comes it is holy being Gods Word, but we are not, man is already corrupted at heart. the only result of the Law even if one follows it all, is a grave until the messiah comes with the Life and Word of God. the law has its place, it is the shepherd that leads us to Jesus, and Jesus the shepherd that Leads us not back to the mosaic Law, but to God the Father.

2 different doctrines one is like a blueprint for the other, but the other is seen in truth and clarity from Gods perspective and not ours. the law was from the sinners perspective, moses was a killer after all. Jesus was sinless. Moses mediated the law meant to break sinners, Jesus mediates the Law of God.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

Here is where pauls doctrine agrees to, by His own word.

acts 26 " But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

the problem for us is that we dont see the Law and prophets as explaining and witnessing of Jesus, but thats what they are doing beforehand they are witnesses of Christ who would come and fulfill those things. and the apostles after are witnesses of Jesus and the gospel. The law and the prophets dont only say Jesus would come to die and be raised to Life, they also say that it is He who will set the Law in the earth for the gentiles.

the apostles didnt just say Jesus died and rose, they spoke of faith, hope, repentance, obedience, righteousness, truth forgiveness, eternal Judgement, the old and new covenants. when we see that after the fall everything is then going to be redeemed when the Messiah comes. and understand that the mosaic Law brought curses and wrath to the earth because all of man brke Gods Law and all have sinned, all are judged Guilty by the Law of Moses and that is the very purpose of the Mosaic Law.

deuteronomy 31:26 " Take this book of the law, and put it beside of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."

if you obeyed the mosaic Law it was a blessing, if you didnt you were cursed by the very same Law. there is both good and evil in the mosaic Law. both blessing and curse. the result of our sins, was to give the law. the law of moses, came about well after sin came into mankind. the law came to hold sinners accountable for good and evil. all are guilty, all are offered 1 way out, Jesus or no way.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, He IS the Word of God thats why John starts out the way it does and Jesus says so many times im speaking Gods words, im the one He annointed youve all been waiting for, theres a reason its the good news they had all long awaited. its all of the promises for God to relent His anger upon Israel, and send the Messiah to redeem Not only Israel but that His salvation would begin at Israel and s-pread to all corners of the earth to all people both Jew and Non Jew or " Gentile" sometimes Heathen" they were all already cursed by the Law and then spread into the earth, the law with them went to all man. and Just the same way, salvation came first to the jew, and then spread into the earth by the second dispursion of the jewish christians that spread through the early church as far as rome and ethiopea..

God is the creator of all man, this point is made many times in the Bible. for a time and for a purpose he chose Israel. and through choosing Israel, His plan works into all the earth to offer salvation to every man. this is the fulfilling of the promise to abraham that his seed would bless the earth. the first mention of the gospel, before the Law of moses.

the law came as a response to sin

galatians 3 " For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. << before the law) 19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

remember this is not paul preaching to jew only or gentile only its a letter to the church of Jesus Christ. Gods plan when He told abraham, "all nations of the earth will be blessed through thy seed" was to offer salvation through Jesus Christ, to not only Israel but to all people. salvation is not offered only to the jews, but it says " salvation is from the jews" Gods chosen Israel are they who brought us what we call the Holy bible. other than the book of Luke, and ruth. its an entirely Jewish authored book, only its meant for everyone who will believe in Jesus Christ, that was always the plan,

when God seperated Israel from all other nations, it was the beginning of the plan to redeem us all through that, they received the law and were scattered and cursed by disobedience to the law, God sent them into all nations of the earth, and the law went with them to all nations. then Jesus came with the Gospel, and His jewish disciples began to preach to gentiles and then the message spread when it Hit the gentile nations so now we have christians and jews everywhere in the world. Jews are not excluded, anyone can be saved in Jesus Christ Jew, Gentile, Black, white, male , female, One Lord, One faith, One body. Jesus is the culmination of the ot, and the foundation of the nt two different " testaments" <<<< important term aligned with covenant.

followjesus · Jan 17, 2018

garee said:

Moses is used to represent the law of God in that way found in Mathew 5 above. Another way it can be discovered by looking at a parable found in the Old Testament where the law of God will be in effect up until men enter the Promised Land .Typified by Moses not entering. This is another piece of Jewish history that is true yet used as a historical parable to hide the spiritual meaning of the gospel in respect to the sufferings of Christ beforehand.

see, do you believe the book of Hebrews? there are 2 different covenants in the Bible between God, and His people. One was spoken through Moses and the prophets. the New covenant is spoken by Jesus Christ. the book of Hebrews would really Help understanding where the Law of moses and the copies and patterns od fading glory, end, and where the gospel, and eternal Life begin to be preached.

Moses in the law didnt speak of the heavenly things he didnt treach the people the things Jesus taught them. Jesus taught about prayer , about having faith and beieving He hears us though we arent in a temple or a camp. Jesus taught us hw to love one another and How to Love God. Jesus says very clearly when He comes, He is not from this world, he is above evryone else, he is the one from God, from Heaven, the word of God. Jesus is the One who begins preaching about the spirit He promises to send, the law of moses is for those who refuse to repent of sin and accept Jesus Christ, the gospel is for those who believe and receive the holy spirit. He is the one who begins to preach about belief in Him and eternal Life, He begins preaching : I will die and be raised up I will be seated at Gods right hand, i will send you the holy spirit....

you find traces of the gospel in the Law, but it is overshadowed by this principle

deuteronomy 17 " At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. 7The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you."

deuteronomy 13 " Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you."

this is what the Law is like, yu arent allowed to show compassion or understanding or mercy to sinners even look at this case

leviticus 20: 9 " For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

can you imagine honestly Jesus Christ Giving any of these commands to His followers ? these types of things are throughout the law of Moses, commandments to kill thy neighbor because thy neighbor sinned 1 time. can you imagine Jesus commanding us to stone someone for a sin? when His doctrine is Like this, it shows us who God really is, and what He is really saying.

Luke 6 :Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

do you see what i mean? they are two opposing things, two opposing spirits. heres another really clear example of the contrary nature of the two

exodus 21 " Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." the principle take equal revenge, you hit me, i hit you, its just and fair according to the law, again this is a principle of the mosaic Law eye for an eye

matthew 5 " Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

the oppsing principle do not obey an eye for an eye like the law taught you, but instead dont pay back wrong for wrong, be merciful like God is being to you in Christ. im sure with an open mind you can sort of see whats there. the idea that Jesus words will condemn people because they are moses law, is hiding the covenant from folks. when Jesus died, that is what sealed the covenant He spoke Like Moses did.

first yu speak all the words of the covenant and then you shed the blood and enjoin it to the people. the gospel is not the mosaic Law, the law was only a rough shadow draft of the things in Heaven, remember....thats where Jesus came from.

john 3 " He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

see how God turned over everything to Jesus? thats because israel broke His covenant with the fathers of Israel. all had fallen into sin the priests of the law were some of the worst so God doesnt say im going to re do this covenant, He says ill do a new thing, not according to the coveannt i made with them i led from egypt ( jeremiah 31)

becausethe coveant is changed, the priesthood is changed, the Law is changed, the temple is changed, the sacrifice is changed, the morality standards is changed ect. mans relationship with God changes because the new covenant in Christ offers the Hol;y spirit through His doctrine. Moses doesnt offer that.

Jesus went close and drew near to sinners and the lame and crippled and blind he touched them, the Holy Christ of God touched sinners and infidels. anyone who has read the law much undrstands this is impossible in the law covenant. those types were excommunicated, kept at a long distance, despised by the camp they were imperfect, spotted lambs, the meek and the lame, blind and the diseased.

Jesus gospel, is not the same thing its Gods word all of it, but it all has a purpose, the gospel is the life, the law is the condemnation that makes us realize i need Gods provision or im lost.......and then we see the truth of God that no one before had seen ever he is not a raging inferno looking to consumne us he isnt calling us unclean, he isnt saying were not worthy of living because we have sinned, thats just how it looked through the veil of moses.

through the gospel of Jesus Christ we see the true God, who has provided all we need to live forever because He loves us, he became one of us lowly creations to redeem us that we might become eternal Children of God. moses Law is essential because it puts us to where we understand we have to have a savior and Only God can give us Mercy, then we find christ and die to the Law that led us there, and walk away new people no longer under the law for sinners, but in the doctrine of the Lord Himself our redeemer

wrath comes by the curse of the law.

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