The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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SabbathBlessing said:
Well you seem not to be arguing with me, but the scriptures posted in my previous reply.

You might consider reading Romans 6 and Romans 3 because grace is not a license to sin and faith establishes the law. I mean how does one profess faith to God, but not faith to believe and do His teachings.

If there was no law, we wouldn't even need grace because sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. You take away the law, you take away the need for grace and the need for a Savior who came to save us from sin.

Anyway, I figured it would get personal, it usually does instead of dealing with the scriptures. Guess we once again will have to agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough but I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.
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It's not personal for me. It's a matter of understanding truth. I haven't labored with you to cause you harm. I've attempted to show you the preeminence of Christ and the
impossibility of a relationship with God based on keeping commandments.
Christ is not a schoolmaster to lead us to the law. Instead, the law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#182
studier said:
Thanks. I understand the concept of the 2 main covenants.

The language of Jer31 and Heb8 remains, though, re: Israel and Judah. So, I thought I'd see you somehow tie that tighter to Christ.
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I see. It would take some study on my part. If you have something on it I would enjoy reading it.
 
S

SabbathBlessing

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Cameron143 said:
It's not personal for me. It's a matter of understanding truth. I haven't labored with you to cause you harm. I've attempted to show you the preeminence of Christ and the
impossibility of a relationship with God based on keeping commandments.
Christ is not a schoolmaster to lead us to the law. Instead, the law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.
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The law is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ Gal 3:24 and once in Christ He enables us to keep His law John 14:15-18

So in your view not doing what Jesus asks is the basis of a relationship?

There is a test on how Jesus knows us according to scripture. I think its very useful as a way to test ourselves.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So I agree we should be seeking Truth to God's Word. I also agree Christ is the center of everything, so when He writes something in our hearts, we should keep it there and treasure. :) He calls us out of rebellion to not harden our hearts Heb 3:7-8 because when we don't keep what He placed there our hearts are far from Him Mat 15:3-14. Jesus wants us close and to trust Him and His teachings to do them. James 1:22 Rev 22:14
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#184
SabbathBlessing said:
The law is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ Gal 3:24 and once in Christ He enables us to keep His law John 14:15-18

So in your view not doing what Jesus asks is the basis of a relationship?

There is a test on how Jesus knows us according to scripture. I think its very useful as a way to test ourselves.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So I agree we should be seeking Truth to God's Word. I also agree Christ is the center of everything, so when He writes something in our hearts, we should keep it there and treasure. :)
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The test is one of 5 tests given in 1st John. It is hardly the only test. Can you not see how your bias towards the law has led you to only mention it. And while it is a good test, it includes both obedience inwardly and outwardly. A better test than obedience is fruit. It cannot be counterfeited as it's source is God the Holy Spirit. Love, peace, joy, etc. are its hallmark. These are the sure markings of God on a person.
You mentioned earlier about grace being a license or occasion of sin. No genuine Christian would ever view it that way. We have become new creations in Christ, we have received new hearts and new desires. Sin is anathema to the Christian and they mourn and sorrow over it. Anyone walking in the Spirit knows this reality.
 
vassal

vassal

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Cameron143 said:
God's Son is the center of everything. You have missed this, preferring the law to Christ.
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Cameron, it is written Jesus is the lord of the sabbath, I tell you he is also lord of the Law! Jesus followed all of the laws when he was with us 2000 years ago, this has not changed He still does!
 
S

SabbathBlessing

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#186
Cameron143 said:
The test is one of 5 tests given in 1st John. It is hardly the only test. Can you not see how your bias towards the law has led you to only mention it. And while it is a good test, it includes both obedience inwardly and outwardly. A better test than obedience is fruit. It cannot be counterfeited as it's source is God the Holy Spirit. Love, peace, joy, etc. are its hallmark. These are the sure markings of God on a person.
You mentioned earlier about grace being a license or occasion of sin. No genuine Christian would ever view it that way. We have become new creations in Christ, we have received new hearts and new desires. Sin is anathema to the Christian and they mourn and sorrow over it. Anyone walking in the Spirit knows this reality.
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The fruits of the Spirit breaks no law.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#187
vassal said:
Cameron, it is written Jesus is the lord of the sabbath, I tell you he is also lord of the Law! Jesus followed all of the laws when he was with us 2000 years ago, this has not changed He still does!
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Yes. And for the Christian, He continues to keep those commandments in and through us as we walk in the Spirit. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourself that you are keeping the commandments.
You and I add nothing to the obedience of Christ in us. And no one keeps any commandment apart from Him. Our best is unacceptable to God. Therefore, our focus should be walking in the Spirit and not trying to keep commandments. Our focus should be Christ and not the law.
By trying to keep the law, we inevitably fail. Walking in the Spirit we cannot fail. This may have been what @studier was getting at with Hebrews 8...the superiority of Christ over Moses.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
It's not personal for me. It's a matter of understanding truth. I haven't labored with you
to cause you harm. I've attempted to show you the preeminence of Christ and the
impossibility of a relationship with God based on keeping commandments.
Christ is not a schoolmaster to lead us to the law. Instead, the law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.
Click to expand...

Galatians 3:23-25
:)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#189
SabbathBlessing said:
The fruits of the Spirit breaks no law.
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Of course they don't. But the point was that obedience can be full or merely outward. This makes obedience a poor test of salvation. Fruit is born of the Spirit and is evidence of inward reality.
 
B

Burn1986

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date. :)

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
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Okay so, which of the Ten Commandments are extinct?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Burn1986 said:
Okay so, which of the Ten Commandments are extinct?
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None. :)


"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

- Matthew 5:17-19
 
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Burn1986

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selahsays said:
None. :)


"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

- Matthew 5:17-19
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I’m confused
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Otherwise, we’d have no jails. Folks would be going around murdering and robbing banks. Jesus did away with a lot of the ordinances and blood rituals, but the 10 commandments still stand.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Burn1986 said:
Which laws are disappearing? Yeah there’s a lot of laws about donkeys, holes in the ground, doves, pigeons, etc. I assume that’s what the OP is referring to?
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See my post right above yours. :)
 
selahsays

selahsays

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We don’t go around sacrificing doves and sheep today. Jesus Christ became the perfect Sacrifice.
 
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Burn1986

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Right I see it. You made good points. I’m just trying to figure out what the OP is talking about. I suspect he’s talking more about Jewish traditions rather than laws. Of course we all hope he’s not talking about the Law of Gravity, or Aerodynamics disappearing lol. Obviously for some, the Laws of Logic have already disappeared (if you know what I mean).
 
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