The pilots group
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Let's review one book of the manual:
*
Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him, calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” 58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
So, you're really going to follow a Lord who you believe:
A. Lied about all this
or
B. Promised these things to others but not to you.
*
Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him, calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” 58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
So, you're really going to follow a Lord who you believe:
A. Lied about all this
or
B. Promised these things to others but not to you.
Let's take this from another angle. How about we find something we agree on? Say like, satan is lying to one of us. Is that reasonable?
Ok, let's look at satan's lies. If he's lying to me, his lie is that all of the Lord's words in Matthew are still valid and effective against him today.
If satan's lying to you, would not his lie be that none of it applies to you?
I mean, c'mon, by taking you out of the game who really benefits here? One less saint not believing is one less saint in his way.
Choose ye whom you will serve. You will indeed see Jesus-size miracles when you do indeed have Jesus-size faith.
Ok, let's look at satan's lies. If he's lying to me, his lie is that all of the Lord's words in Matthew are still valid and effective against him today.
If satan's lying to you, would not his lie be that none of it applies to you?
I mean, c'mon, by taking you out of the game who really benefits here? One less saint not believing is one less saint in his way.
Choose ye whom you will serve. You will indeed see Jesus-size miracles when you do indeed have Jesus-size faith.
R
But doesn't that what Satan does to us all anyways? he takes us out of believing the true Gods roll he has in us all? but Satan does it cunningly, deceitful, and sly. So isn't that what you doing, even though its a game? I know what you are trying to do, But this is how Satan works in us all in our real lives. So playing a game of minds that Satan does for real, wont seem to be a game to people? Just a thought.
I thought the plane analogy was a GREAT attempt at understanding the reality of miracles (lol, an oxymoron)...but I think we should delve into this phrase for a second: "the reality of miracles".
But before I do, I'd just like to comment on some people pretty much saying "seeing is believing".
There will be Doubting Thomases out there among believers who are no less part of the fold, but "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29). In other words, more will be given to whose people because they believe WITHOUT requiring evidence.
Belief based on evidence is still belief...but belief independent of evidence is Faith.
There are many people who believe in planes because they see them everyday, but only a hand full of people had "faith" in planes, two of which were the Wright Brothers...and their faith was rewarded. And this brings me to "the reality of miracles".
So what is a miracle? Would all agree that a miracle is something that happens that is *contrary* to known reality; something that *contradicts* the way things be?
If you agree with my definition then you must also agree that The Resurrection will clearly be in the "miracle" category. The concept is - quite frankly - the most contradictory to reality that one can think of, since EVERYONE believes in the immutable reality of death (because we see it everyday).
So if one doesn't believe miracles exist in our day, even though many agree that we’re in the last days, how can one believe in The Resurrection? Or Christ in them? Such things are also contrary to physical reality (so they're miracles as well).
Now just like miracles, faith does not "agree with" reality (for lack of a better phrase). The very existence of faith depends on its *independence* of proof. So faith is always contrary to one’s senses ("we walk by faith and not by sight"). Faith does not and can not "follow" a situation ("faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen").
Scripture says that the universe was framed by the Word of God *through faith*. So it’s the chief mechanism of creating anything:
Hebrews 11:3
So the universe was ALSO a miracle by our definition.
In fact if we think about it, is it any wonder why *without* faith it’s impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6)? God is contrary to the senses, He exists before everything, and contradicts physical reality...faith has all of the same characteristics, so faith is an extension of God’s essence; a dimension of his very being so to say.
This is why one must first have faith BEFORE a miracle is even possible. It’s only through faith that something that doesn't exist, does exist. There was a time when planes didn't exist, and if no one ever believed in planes (before planes were evident) planes would have NEVER become a reality...ever. They were not an eventuality. Now there are levels of faith: faith that builds planes...and faith that moves mountains.
So a miracle is nothing less than faith (re)shaping reality.
Luke 18:18
But before I do, I'd just like to comment on some people pretty much saying "seeing is believing".
There will be Doubting Thomases out there among believers who are no less part of the fold, but "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29). In other words, more will be given to whose people because they believe WITHOUT requiring evidence.
Belief based on evidence is still belief...but belief independent of evidence is Faith.
There are many people who believe in planes because they see them everyday, but only a hand full of people had "faith" in planes, two of which were the Wright Brothers...and their faith was rewarded. And this brings me to "the reality of miracles".
So what is a miracle? Would all agree that a miracle is something that happens that is *contrary* to known reality; something that *contradicts* the way things be?
If you agree with my definition then you must also agree that The Resurrection will clearly be in the "miracle" category. The concept is - quite frankly - the most contradictory to reality that one can think of, since EVERYONE believes in the immutable reality of death (because we see it everyday).
So if one doesn't believe miracles exist in our day, even though many agree that we’re in the last days, how can one believe in The Resurrection? Or Christ in them? Such things are also contrary to physical reality (so they're miracles as well).
Now just like miracles, faith does not "agree with" reality (for lack of a better phrase). The very existence of faith depends on its *independence* of proof. So faith is always contrary to one’s senses ("we walk by faith and not by sight"). Faith does not and can not "follow" a situation ("faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen").
Scripture says that the universe was framed by the Word of God *through faith*. So it’s the chief mechanism of creating anything:
Hebrews 11:3
So the universe was ALSO a miracle by our definition.
In fact if we think about it, is it any wonder why *without* faith it’s impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6)? God is contrary to the senses, He exists before everything, and contradicts physical reality...faith has all of the same characteristics, so faith is an extension of God’s essence; a dimension of his very being so to say.
This is why one must first have faith BEFORE a miracle is even possible. It’s only through faith that something that doesn't exist, does exist. There was a time when planes didn't exist, and if no one ever believed in planes (before planes were evident) planes would have NEVER become a reality...ever. They were not an eventuality. Now there are levels of faith: faith that builds planes...and faith that moves mountains.
So a miracle is nothing less than faith (re)shaping reality.
Luke 18:18
i liked your post.
but who said they don't believe in miracles?
your definition of miracles was a biblical one - a miracle is God suspending 'the natural laws'/laws of nature - to affirm He is saying or doing something. it is a display of His POWER.
He performs them for a reason.
the floating axehead; parting the Red Sea; raising Lazarus....and the miracle of salvation.
our receiving aletter in the mail with the right amount of money may not even be from God.
if it is, it's Providence.
but who said they don't believe in miracles?
your definition of miracles was a biblical one - a miracle is God suspending 'the natural laws'/laws of nature - to affirm He is saying or doing something. it is a display of His POWER.
He performs them for a reason.
the floating axehead; parting the Red Sea; raising Lazarus....and the miracle of salvation.
our receiving aletter in the mail with the right amount of money may not even be from God.
if it is, it's Providence.
Awesome, awesome post. Couldn't have said it better, and I've saved it in my notes for future reference. That was indeed a very wise and inspired word.
I would just tangent on one thing, though, the verse in John refers more to faith in Christ as Savior, whereas the issue being discussed is whether, having already had faith to accept Christ, do you then have faith in the gifts and miracles that follow? In this case, evidence of the gifts are part and parcel of producing the fruit of the Spirit. And I don't believe a believer who fails to produce this fruit will be rewarded... or stand strong:
Luke 6
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
I would just tangent on one thing, though, the verse in John refers more to faith in Christ as Savior, whereas the issue being discussed is whether, having already had faith to accept Christ, do you then have faith in the gifts and miracles that follow? In this case, evidence of the gifts are part and parcel of producing the fruit of the Spirit. And I don't believe a believer who fails to produce this fruit will be rewarded... or stand strong:
Luke 6
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
I don't put any faith in the tangibility of an airplane. I interact with an airplane, and experience that it is tangible. There's no faith needed there; just experience.
That's why the analogy fails - because you're talking about something ("seeing miracles everywhere") that you yourself insist is entirely subjective.
That's why the analogy fails - because you're talking about something ("seeing miracles everywhere") that you yourself insist is entirely subjective.
Sure, my testimony on the existence of miracles is subjective. So is your testimony on the absence of them. Ifthe analogy is flawed oh well. But the Bible's testimony, is that subjective too? Are the words of Jesus subjective? If you don't want to take my words to heart then fine. But when you dismiss the words of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and all of them, I think you need to rethink your stand.
Who benefits when we deny God's power?
Who benefits when we deny God's power?
C
Wow... Is that an original composition??? Whoever wrote it sounds like... me. It's like reading something written by someone who has spent a lot of time around someone you have also - enough for that person to rub off on you... Here's a corollory from my own life: Principle vs fact. When I was a child and was given my first wristwatch, I was very proud of it, I felt much more grown up. Initially, I could only tell when it was 7:00, because that was bedtime. I couldn't tell what time it was if it wasn't 7:00 because I only knew the fact of 'big hand on 12, little hand on 7 = bedtime". I didn't understand the principles of timekeeping yet. For that reason my watch was useless to me for all but a few minutes out of each day. How many Christians find their Bibles, their faith, mostly useless because they only know a few facts, and don't understand the deeper principles that govern them? How many have decided that their watch must be broken, or that God doesn't give us the time any more? Father God, send us teachers who can show us "how to tell time", and use it wisely.
Ephesians 5
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore He says, Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine (make day dawn) upon you and give you light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Look carefully then how you walk! Live purposefully and worthily and accurately, not as the unwise and witless, but as wise (sensible, intelligent people),
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Making the very most of the time [buying up each opportunity], because the days are evil.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore do not be vague and thoughtless and foolish, but understanding and firmly grasping what the will of the Lord is.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit.
Ephesians 5
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore He says, Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine (make day dawn) upon you and give you light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Look carefully then how you walk! Live purposefully and worthily and accurately, not as the unwise and witless, but as wise (sensible, intelligent people),
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Making the very most of the time [buying up each opportunity], because the days are evil.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore do not be vague and thoughtless and foolish, but understanding and firmly grasping what the will of the Lord is.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit.