The Pope Is Antichrist - Teaching done by Pastor Gregory Gregory A. Miller
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uh...okay?
dispensationalism (especially chiliasm) is rooted in the early insistence by jewish people of the very thing they had to eventually dispense with (the jewish christians) - that the Kingdom was of this world, that Rome would be overthrown with a kingdom from Jerusalem.
it's non-existent, i assure you.
millennialists' total and complete inability to show anything about it from scripture is the evidence
1) it doesn't exist
2) it doesn't exist
personal narratives that are repeated are not truth.
pretrib is thoroughly debunked.
k...nite.
dispensationalism (especially chiliasm) is rooted in the early insistence by jewish people of the very thing they had to eventually dispense with (the jewish christians) - that the Kingdom was of this world, that Rome would be overthrown with a kingdom from Jerusalem.
it's non-existent, i assure you.
millennialists' total and complete inability to show anything about it from scripture is the evidence
1) it doesn't exist
2) it doesn't exist
personal narratives that are repeated are not truth.
pretrib is thoroughly debunked.
k...nite.
Pre-millennialists like myself have proven our position with the Scriptures. It is called right division. Pretrib has not been debunked. That is just your opinion. I already showed you an example of where some of the early church fathers and theologians who were students of the Scriptures had discerned the divisions that were in the Scriptures.
Also I ahve given Peter Scripture, and logical reasons why the Rapture has to take place before the tribuation. In this dispensation of the Grace of God, every true born again believer has eternal security (See Eph. 1:13 and Eph. 4:30)
But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there is no eternal security given, EXCEPT for the 144,000 Jews which are sealed in their foreheads (see Revelation 7:3).
Now why is that? Because in the time of Jacob's trouble every Jew and Gentile will have to have faith plus works to merit salvation. They will have to endure unto the end to be saved (See Matthew 24:13 and Mark 13:13). They cannot take the mark of the beast, because if they do, then they go to Hell.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. - Revelation 14:9-12 (King James Bible)
See, it is faith and works in the time of Jacob's trouble. The Jews are going to have to both keep the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. That's faith and works Zone.
So again, the pretrib. rapture has not been debunked. If there is anything that has been debunked and refuted time and time again, it is most certainly the Post. Trib Rapture theory and belief. It is just astounding to me of how many Christians get suckered into this false teaching that somehow the Christians are going to have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble, when they don't realize that the purpose of the that time is to bring the Jews back in line, and to correct them.
Christians will not be here for the Time of Jacob's trouble. We will be raptured before the tribulation ever starts.
To conclude, I am going to share a video defending pre-millennialism. And the points that are in this video refute the arguments which both post and amillennialts bring up a lot.
Premillennialism: The Only Way! - Sermon by Bryan Denlinger
[video=youtube;FbCCzNbOv4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbCCzNbOv4A[/video]
Okay, but who has to go through the time of Jacob's trouble? Notice it is the time of JACOB'S trouble. Not the Church's trouble. We, the church won't be here for it. We will be in Heaven with Jesus. Now when He comes back down at His Second Coming, we will come with Him and we will be following after Him.
The purpose of the Time of Jacob's trouble is to correct the Jews.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith theLord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. - Jeremiah 30:1-11 (King James Bible)
From reading that given passage of Scripture in context. It is very clear that the Lord is talking about Israel and Judah.
He is not talking about Church Age Christians. The time of Jacob's trouble is when God is dealing directly with the Nation of Israel.
Also, I see you weren't able to answer those questions Peter.
The purpose of the Time of Jacob's trouble is to correct the Jews.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith theLord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. - Jeremiah 30:1-11 (King James Bible)
From reading that given passage of Scripture in context. It is very clear that the Lord is talking about Israel and Judah.
He is not talking about Church Age Christians. The time of Jacob's trouble is when God is dealing directly with the Nation of Israel.
Also, I see you weren't able to answer those questions Peter.
Yeah but your taking those passages out of context.
And by the way, yes I do have words to line up:
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. - Revelation 4:1-2 (King James Bible)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (King James Bible)
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (King James Bible)
These three passages do correlate with one another.
Whether you see it or not Peter.
Your line of reasoning in regard to the Rapture supposedly being after the Tribulation is in agreement with that of Roman Catholicism. Go check it out for yourself Peter. See what the Roman Catholics believe about the Rapture and the timing of it.
You need to rightly divide the word of truth.
P
There is only one body the church
One blood of all nations of men, there is nether Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.
One body, one blood, one baptism, one spiritual drink.
These are 12 spiritual tribes as James says when greeting the church.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Governor that shall rule my people Israel
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is the Governor ruling over? Us Christians His people Israel, Spiritual Israel, thus the 12 tribes are spiritual Israel.
The true Israel of God the church.
One blood of all nations of men, there is nether Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.
One body, one blood, one baptism, one spiritual drink.
These are 12 spiritual tribes as James says when greeting the church.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Governor that shall rule my people Israel
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is the Governor ruling over? Us Christians His people Israel, Spiritual Israel, thus the 12 tribes are spiritual Israel.
The true Israel of God the church.
No, the 12 tribes are not spiritual Israel. They are Literal Isreal.
Don't get a Pentecostal Israelite in Acts 2 mixed up with a spiritual Jew in Romans 2.
And yes, in this dispensation there is no distinction between Jews or Gentiles. For we are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:28)
But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles. ( See Revelation 7 ).
Don't get a Pentecostal Israelite in Acts 2 mixed up with a spiritual Jew in Romans 2.
And yes, in this dispensation there is no distinction between Jews or Gentiles. For we are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:28)
But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there will be a distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles. ( See Revelation 7 ).
Hyper-dispensationalism (Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.[1], ultra-dispensationalism[2] or more rarely "Bullingerism"[3]) is a niche Protestant doctrine that views the teachings of the Apostle Paul both as unique from earlier apostles and as foundational for the church, a perspective sometimes characterized by proponents as the "Pauline Distinctive."[4] E. W. Bullinger (1837–1913), an Anglican clergyman and scholar, is the best known early expositor of Acts 28 hyper-dispensationalism, although the ideas trace back further to John Nelson Darby (1800–1882).
Hyper-dispensationalism is rejected by mainstream dispensationalism, which holds that the Church began at Pentecost[5] long prior to Paul's conversion to Christianity as described early in the New Testament book entitled "Acts of the Apostles." Popular dispensationalist Harry A. Ironside (1876–1951) unfairly declared Bullingerism an "absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth." [6] Anti-dispensationalists simultaneously admire hyper-dispensationalism as a "consistent Dispensationalism" and condemn it as much like a "cult or sect."[7] Evangelicals reject adherents as "divisive."[8]
Except for a few obscure dissertations, there has been no substantial investigation of the hyper-dispensational position and its strengths. Only superficial assertions of the Acts 2 position is posited as an answer yet without any real engagement with the answers given by the more consistent dispensationalists. See the Berean Bible Society's web site where most all of J.C. O'Hair's writings are archived in which he answers his opponents and documents their responses or lack thereof. The clearest scholarly references to hyper-dispensationalism are made by Charles C. Ryrie [9] and Charles F. Baker.[10]
Advocates of hyper-dispensationalism accept the term "dispensationalism", but reject the prefix "hyper" or "ultra" as pejorative. Within the United States, advocates often refer to themselves as members of the "Grace Movement,"[11] and affiliate with the [Grace Gospel Fellowship], a church association, and its Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, or the more conservative Berean Bible Fellowship.
Hyperdispensationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
Hyper-dispensationalism is rejected by mainstream dispensationalism, which holds that the Church began at Pentecost[5] long prior to Paul's conversion to Christianity as described early in the New Testament book entitled "Acts of the Apostles." Popular dispensationalist Harry A. Ironside (1876–1951) unfairly declared Bullingerism an "absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth." [6] Anti-dispensationalists simultaneously admire hyper-dispensationalism as a "consistent Dispensationalism" and condemn it as much like a "cult or sect."[7] Evangelicals reject adherents as "divisive."[8]
Except for a few obscure dissertations, there has been no substantial investigation of the hyper-dispensational position and its strengths. Only superficial assertions of the Acts 2 position is posited as an answer yet without any real engagement with the answers given by the more consistent dispensationalists. See the Berean Bible Society's web site where most all of J.C. O'Hair's writings are archived in which he answers his opponents and documents their responses or lack thereof. The clearest scholarly references to hyper-dispensationalism are made by Charles C. Ryrie [9] and Charles F. Baker.[10]
Advocates of hyper-dispensationalism accept the term "dispensationalism", but reject the prefix "hyper" or "ultra" as pejorative. Within the United States, advocates often refer to themselves as members of the "Grace Movement,"[11] and affiliate with the [Grace Gospel Fellowship], a church association, and its Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, or the more conservative Berean Bible Fellowship.
Hyperdispensationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
i don't know what can be done for you.
other than just try to counter your false doctrine.
maybe you'll catch on one day.
the entire foundation of your beliefs is a single extreme heresy:
that the Incarnation was never intended to be for the Propitiation of the sins of man.
it was a Plan B.
this theology can possibly send one to hell.
i don't know what to tell you, but there's not a single Biblical thing about it.
nothing.
it's antichrist in nearly every way i can think of.
other than just try to counter your false doctrine.
maybe you'll catch on one day.
the entire foundation of your beliefs is a single extreme heresy:
that the Incarnation was never intended to be for the Propitiation of the sins of man.
it was a Plan B.
this theology can possibly send one to hell.
i don't know what to tell you, but there's not a single Biblical thing about it.
nothing.
it's antichrist in nearly every way i can think of.
Romans 11 warns us about replacement theology....
Romans 11:17-18: "And if some of the branches were broken off, and you (all gentile believers), being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them (Israel) became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you"
There is only one way to be saved, through Jesus. Both individual Jew and gentile are being saved today when they believe in Jesus as savior. But.... Israel has not been done away with. I think it's terribly sad that so many try to replace Israel with the church as if God doesn't have plans for Israel. Yes - the remnant will one day come to believe in Jesus also, as scripture states they will confess their sin and rejection, mourn for Him and plead for His return.
Copy/Paste....
Romans 11:17-18: "And if some of the branches were broken off, and you (all gentile believers), being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them (Israel) became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you"
There is only one way to be saved, through Jesus. Both individual Jew and gentile are being saved today when they believe in Jesus as savior. But.... Israel has not been done away with. I think it's terribly sad that so many try to replace Israel with the church as if God doesn't have plans for Israel. Yes - the remnant will one day come to believe in Jesus also, as scripture states they will confess their sin and rejection, mourn for Him and plead for His return.
Copy/Paste....
"Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).
Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven. The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years.
God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).
Both the Old Testament and the New Testament supports this understanding of God's plan for Israel. Even so, the strongest support is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11)"
Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven. The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years.
God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).
Both the Old Testament and the New Testament supports this understanding of God's plan for Israel. Even so, the strongest support is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11)"
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Peter, where does the phrase "Last Trumpet" show up in the King James Bible?
I know that "last trump" appears in 1 Cor. 15:52.
But where does "last trumpet" appear? The very word "trumpet" does not show up anywhere in Revelation 11.
Now the word "trumpet" shows up in Matthew 24 at least one time. But it doesn't say "last trumpet."
It just says "with a great sound of a trumpet."
I know that "last trump" appears in 1 Cor. 15:52.
But where does "last trumpet" appear? The very word "trumpet" does not show up anywhere in Revelation 11.
Now the word "trumpet" shows up in Matthew 24 at least one time. But it doesn't say "last trumpet."
It just says "with a great sound of a trumpet."
Zone, the only false doctrine and heresy that is being put on this thread is yours, PeterT's and anyone else who is trying to defend the lie of the Post Trib. Rapture.
On the other hand, the Pre-Trib. Rapture is founded upon Scripture. Go check out some of the videos which Brother Bryan Denlinger has put out on the issue of the Rapture. It will help you if you are willing to be corrected. But if you decide to persist and stay in your error, well then that is on you.
Plan B for the sins of mankind? Huh?
Could you elaborate a little bit more, because I am trying to make sense of what you are talking about Zone.
On the other hand, the Pre-Trib. Rapture is founded upon Scripture. Go check out some of the videos which Brother Bryan Denlinger has put out on the issue of the Rapture. It will help you if you are willing to be corrected. But if you decide to persist and stay in your error, well then that is on you.
Plan B for the sins of mankind? Huh?
Could you elaborate a little bit more, because I am trying to make sense of what you are talking about Zone.