What is your view of Hell and the Lake of Fire? Is it Loving?

[Jason0047]

Thank you. Sometimes it seems you are supporting annihilation and other times not. So when you say "the destruction they mention is exclusively in reference to the Lake of Fire after the Great White Throne Judgment (Which takes place after the Millennium)." you mean they are not destroyed in the LoF but... what? In post #314 you say,The Bodily Resurrection of the Damned for the Wicked (Which will take place after the Judgment to destroy them both soul and body in the Lake of Fire). I believe in the destruction of body and soul for those who refuse God in the LoF.

In post #307 you say "They do not understand that the word "forever" and it's related words do not always mean forever in the Bible." I entered this thread where you were expositing on this, which is why I at first assumed you supported annihilation. I understand that forever sometimes simply means until God's purpose is achieved. In fact I saw one Scripture recently that said something about us walking on their ashes (the ashes of those who are destroyed). Maybe I need to start at the beginning to better understand Conditional Immortality?

"Hell is still a real place. It's just not a place where people are burned in flames. At least not that we are of according to the Scriptures anyways."

I agree

I think you might find this article very helpful in regards to Conditional Immortality.

Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical

However, to forewarn you, they believe in "Soul Sleep" of which I find to be Unbiblical.

I believed in Dualistic Conditionalism long before I learned of its official name given by those in the Conditional Immortality camp.

Here is where I discovered it's name.

Dualistic Conditionalism still bothers me

But for clarity, I believe in a real hell but I do not believe it is a torture chamber. I believe it is more like an uncomfortable prison. But what about those wicked people who died in the flood? Have they been down there for thousands of years? Does their punishment of being locked up in a bad prison for so long seem unfair? I honestly do not have an official answer from Scripture on this (And the Scriptures say I am not to go beyond what is written). Granted it is possible that time operates differently there but there is no way to be sure. What I do know is that God is fair and just in His Judgments and the answer will be revealed to us in time. But I believe that when a wicked person dies, they go to hell (but they will not be burning in any actual flames), and they will in time face the Judgment, and then receive a new body so as to be destroyed both body and soul in the Lake of Fire (Which sits beneath Hell). For Hell is described as an island in Scripture.

 

[Jason0047]

Adam and Eve were prevented from eating of the tree of life after they sinned so they would not live in a sinful body for all of eternity. The tree of life was for the body not the soul. They died spiritually when they sinned not physically, at least not right away. Physical death begun and the tree of life would have halted that process.

The soul/spirit of man came from God and is indeed eternal. Eternal death is the result of sin. Spiritual things like God who is Spirit are eternal. The lake of fire burns forever and the soul/spirits there are never consumed, the fire is never extinguished. The fire is the white hot wrath of God upon sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Nowhere does the Bible specifically state that the soul is immortal. The misunderstanding comes when people assume that the word "forever" in relation to the punishment of the wicked always means forever when that is not the case (As I pointed out in many Scriptures a page or two back). In other words, you need to show us Scripture that specifically states man's soul is immortal. In other words, we need verses please.

 

[Magenta]

But for clarity, I believe in a real hell but I do not believe it is a torture chamber. I believe it is more like an uncomfortable prison. But what about those wicked people who died in the flood? Have they been down there for thousands of years? Does their punishment of being locked up in a bad prison for so long seem unfair? I honestly do not have an official answer from Scripture on this (And the Scriptures say I am not to go beyond what is written). Granted it is possible that time operates differently there but there is no way to be sure. What I do know is that God is fair and just in His Judgments and the answer will be revealed to us in time. But I believe that when a wicked person dies, they go to hell (but they will not be burning in any actual flames), and they will in time face the Judgment, and then receive a new body so as to be destroyed both body and soul in the Lake of Fire (Which sits beneath Hell). For Hell is described as an island in Scripture.

I think only our language really varies somewhat from adhering to the central theme that Scripture clearly (IMHO) lays out: the wicked die, are in hell (not burning) awaiting judgment (where they know nothing), then are resurrected, judged, and destroyed in the lake of fire {This is the second death – the lake of fire.} A new heaven and earth are populated by God's people, those willing to live of their own volition according to His standards. It is always somewhat of a pleasure to meet people who do not ascribe to God the need to eternally punish, torture, or torment, those who reject His offer of life. That view rather makes Him out to be a monster, and is in no way in keeping with His attributes of justice, mercy, and love. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, and much love to you

 

[BradC]

Rev 20:13 ...death and HELL delivered up the dead that were in them.

Rev 20:14 Death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire, this is the second death.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The same fate awaits those whose names were not found in the book of life as it will be for the devil, the beast and the false prophet. (the lake of fire, the second death). Believers only experience one death (which they are appointed to as others - Heb 9:27) and are later resurrected unto life, but the unbeliever experiences two deaths and is tormented for ever and ever. There are no exceptions under the justice of God.

 

[Jason0047]

I think only our language really varies somewhat from adhering to the central theme that Scripture clearly (IMHO) lays out: the wicked die, are in hell (not burning) awaiting judgment (where they know nothing), then are resurrected, judged, and destroyed in the lake of fire {This is the second death – the lake of fire.} A new heaven and earth are populated by God's people, those willing to live of their own volition according to His standards. It is always somewhat of a pleasure to meet people who do not ascribe to God the need to eternally punish, torture, or torment, those who reject His offer of life. That view rather makes Him out to be a monster, and is in no way in keeping with His attributes of justice, mercy, and love. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, and much love to you

Dear Magenta:

Good morning.

Thank you for the "much love" in Christ. Yeah, I believe the topic of believing in the Intermediate state or not is not as important as say other topics (Like say Soteriology, i.e. the Study of Salvation because it deals with the salvation of our very souls), but I do believe God will guide us into all truth within His Word as we keep on studying with Him. But yes, I know it is a pleasure for me to meet someone in the body of Christ who also believes God is not someone who can endless torture people. For it was such a relief for me to learn of the Biblical teaching of Conditional Immortality.

Praise be unto God indeed for such a beloved treasure (or prized nuggest of truth).

Anyways, peace, and blessings be unto you.
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....

 

[Jason0047]

Rev 20:13 ...death and HELL delivered up the dead that were in them.

Rev 20:14 Death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire, this is the second death.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The same fate awaits those whose names were not found in the book of life as it will be for the devil, the beast and the false prophet. (the lake of fire, the second death). Believers only experience one death (which they are appointed to as others - Heb 9:27) and are later resurrected unto life, but the unbeliever experiences two deaths and is tormented for ever and ever. There are no exceptions under the justice of God.

What is the "Ages of Ages" in Revelation 20:10 talking about?

Revelation 20:10 is indeed saying that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented day and night for... "the ages of ages." Here are a few translations that express this.

"for the eons of the eons." ~ Concordant Literal New Testament
"for the ages of the ages." ~ Darby Bible Translation.
"for the aeons of the aeons." ~ The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson​

In other words, Revelation 20:10 is saying the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented day and night for the purpose of the Ages of the Ages. Meaning the Ages of Ages that are past! Not future! They are being punished day and night for the evil that they committed during the past Ages and Ages here on this Earth. For the word "for" can also be defined as "because" within the English language.

Revelation 20:10 Darby
"And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for [the purpose of] the ages of ages."

For the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are all demons who have tormented mankind for ages and ages. So they will be cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone and will be tormented day and night and not for all eternity.

So the "ages of ages" is talking about "past ages" and not "future ages."

This is further supported by the fact that Paul says the last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26), which suggests that there were other enemies of God that the Lord destroyed before this last enemy. This then ties in nicely with Revelation 21:4 saying, "the former things have passed away." These former things that have passed away are: tears, sorrow, crying, death, and pain. For the first heaven and first earth will pass away and a new heaven and a new earth will take it's place (Revelation 21:1). For Jesus says, "I make all things new." (Revelation 21:5).

​

Also, Scripture says the beast in the false prophet will be in the Lake of Fire for 1,000 years. However, the beast and the false prophet are demons and not humans. They had inflicted pain and suffering on humanity for more than 1,000 years. Second, when it says forever in Revelation 20:10 it is a colorful expression of strong emotion for the totality of the devil's allotted time of punishment. It is a strong expression of emotion of totality. Sort of like how a man might say to his wife in love, "I am your husband forever." However, he knows he won't be her husband forever because he knows death will separate them as husband and wife in the future. But what evidence is there that Satan will perish in the Lake of Fire with everyone else?

Well, you may or may not know this, but Isaiah 14:12-20 and Ezekiel 28:11-19 are well known verses amongst Christians that talk about the devil. They are passages that describe both the devil and the evil rulers who were living during that time. Anyways, Ezekiel 28:18 says that the fire will devour the devil and he will be brought to ashes. Isaiah 14:19 says the devil's carcase will be trodden under foot. Meaning he will be nothing but a charred up corpse or a destroyed spiritual body.

 

[resurrection33]

I think the lake of fire is the set of circumstances we set in motion when we sin. They come back and make life most unpleasant for us.

 

[Yet]

Psalm 37 and 145 destruction: samad: annihilation