when will the rapture happen

[Isdaniel]

Revelation 14

who are reaped first from the earth and who are reape second to go into the winepress of the wrath of God ? Note there are two reapings

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed
are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

 

[PlainWord]

We are gathered, not Raptured.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... 3 ...Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed...

Where are we gathered? In the clouds.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Who is gathered? His Elect, His remnant.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." 26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." 27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. 28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth."
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there.

They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Paul was one of the Elect as was Peter.

English 101:
rem·nant

[rem-nuh

nt] noun
1.
a remaining, usually small part, quantity, number, or the like.

2. a fragment or scrap.

3. a small, unsold or unused piece of cloth, lace, etc., as at the end of a bolt.

4. a trace; vestige: remnants of former greatness.


adjective 5. remaining; leftover.

How can the Remnant be Rapture before the Tribulation??? What would make them a remnant if nothing has happened yet??

 

[Isdaniel]

We are gathered, not Raptured.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... 3 ...Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed...

Where are we gathered? In the clouds.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Who is gathered? His Elect, His remnant.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." 26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." 27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. 28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth."
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there.

They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Paul was one of the Elect as was Peter.

English 101:
rem·nant

[rem-nuh

nt] noun
1.
a remaining, usually small part, quantity, number, or the like.

2. a fragment or scrap.

3. a small, unsold or unused piece of cloth, lace, etc., as at the end of a bolt.

4. a trace; vestige: remnants of former greatness.


adjective 5. remaining; leftover.

How can the Remnant be Rapture before the Tribulation??? What would make them a remnant if nothing has happened yet??

Who do the angels gather first ? The wicked or the righteous

 

[PlainWord]

Matthew 25

King James Version (KJV)

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



Why was not the tares taken first ?

Different parable and lesson. Note here Jesus was discussing the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the "gathering" we have been discussing.

 

[Isdaniel]

The kimgdom of Heaven

Matthew 13

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[PlainWord]

Who do the angels gather first ? The wicked or the righteous

The wicked are gathered for slaughter. They are "swept away." When the Lord returns He slays the wicked, those that came up against His people, Israel. See Rev 19, Zech 14:

12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. 13 It shall come to pass in that day That a great panic from the Lord will be among them. Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor, And raise his hand against his neighbor's hand;

 

[Hoffco]

We need to be careful not to take too much out of a parable. Our Bible systematic theology keeps us from reading to much into a parable. The teaching of a parable is ONE,very general truth,or one basic truth for each parable. The basic truth from the parable of the tares and the wheat is that the two grow together and we can not separate them. only God knows the heart and so, only God can separate them and that is at the end time judgments. We should not interpret a parable in a way that condradicts further N.T. revelation. The teaching on WHO is raised first is answered by the epistles and the bk. of Revelation. Therefore we know ,the righteous saints are raised first ,during the 70th wk. of Daniel and the wicked dead rise not until the 1,000 yrs, of Jesus rule, ends. This is still on the "last day", because the "last day" is 1,000 yrs long. My conviction, is, that we will see the beginning of the 70th wk. of Daniel and we will be raised, the righteous dead, will be raised in the middle of the 70th wk. of Daniel. after the tribulation is over.and just before the wrath of God is poured out. The 144,000 Jews will be still left on the earth and spared from Gods wrath as they are elect to salvaion and they will be beheaded by the antichrist and will be raised with the all the other martyrs at the end of the 70th wk. of Daniel., to rule with us and Christ for the 1,000 yrs.. Love to all Hoffco

 

[jamessuresh]

Not able to answer by anybody, because that happen secretly.

 

[ChristianUk13]

The adult version is that those of us who are still around at the coming of the antichrist, will be persecuted unto death. The so-called rapture or gathering is likely to happen after (ie post) the unprecedented tribulation. The bible would expressly state anything to the contrary. We are spirits in human suits. Jesus says don't fear those who kill the body but rather Him who can destroy the soul in hell.

 

[PlainWord]

We need to be careful not to take too much out of a parable. Our Bible systematic theology keeps us from reading to much into a parable. The teaching of a parable is ONE,very general truth,or one basic truth for each parable. The basic truth from the parable of the tares and the wheat is that the two grow together and we can not separate them. only God knows the heart and so, only God can separate them and that is at the end time judgments. We should not interpret a parable in a way that condradicts further N.T. revelation. The teaching on WHO is raised first is answered by the epistles and the bk. of Revelation. Therefore we know ,the righteous saints are raised first ,during the 70th wk. of Daniel and the wicked dead rise not until the 1,000 yrs, of Jesus rule, ends. This is still on the "last day", because the "last day" is 1,000 yrs long. My conviction, is, that we will see the beginning of the 70th wk. of Daniel and we will be raised, the righteous dead, will be raised in the middle of the 70th wk. of Daniel. after the tribulation is over.and just before the wrath of God is poured out. The 144,000 Jews will be still left on the earth and spared from Gods wrath as they are elect to salvaion and they will be beheaded by the antichrist and will be raised with the all the other martyrs at the end of the 70th wk. of Daniel., to rule with us and Christ for the 1,000 yrs.. Love to all Hoffco

I have a little problem with your comments in red. There is no resurrection until Christ returns and only the Elect, the martyred from the Tribulation are resurrected at that time, See Rev 20:4-6. The rest of the saints rest in heaven with the Father until the 1,000 earth years, 1 heaven day is up.

It is a little misleading to call the 144,000 Jews. They are of Jewish descent, true. But the 10 northern tribes were scattered some 2,500 years ago into all the world. God knows who they are but the point is they could be any of us unless you can trace your bloodline back that far and most people can't even go back 200 years. So, the 144,000 are all over the world today. They remain in their countries to carry out God's work during the Tribulation. Some, not all, will be beheaded or killed. We then see them all with Christ standing on Mount Zion when Christ returns.

How do they get there? They are "Gathered" as the remnant. Those who were martyred come back with Christ from heaven to meet those who lived through the Tribulation. Notice only the 144K are mentioned with the Lord in Rev 14:1? Heaven is not going to be cleaned out until after the 1,000 years are up and the new heaven and earth is established. I don't know if the 144K is a literal number or figurative of a finite number. I have no insight on that. This is how I see things.