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Has anyone noticed that hope36523 has not posted in the thread since the initial post on August 29th, 2013 ?
"Some people know how to 'stir the pot' - don't they...???"
"Some people know how to 'stir the pot' - don't they...???"
Of course there is no rapture, at least not the way people think. There is a second coming of the Lord where the (very small) remnant is caught up and changed and meets the Lord with the martyred (tribulation) saints.
From Daniel 12:
...And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.
Notice Daniel uses the word "many" and doesn't use the word "all." People want to ignore that fact that there is a second resurrection, that those who fell for the Beast/Antichrist/Satan and died won't take part in the first resurrection. They have to wait until the second resurrection. Some of them will also be saved, some will not.
This is not aimed at you GRA, I was just agreeing with your premise that the author of this thread disappeared.
D
No I am not getting caught up in semantics, but it is obvious that you are obfuscating as you have literally failed to address any of the points I have raised. You said the man of sin is the two horned beast. I proved with Scripture beasts are kingdoms. You on the other hand have failed to demonstrate any Scriptural evidence to support your claim concerning this or your belief that John17:12 sentences satan to perdition. It isn't about semantics friend it is about truth. I noticed in one of your post where you criticized Zone for drinking the kool aid of the antireformation writings of the Jesuit Alcazar whose writings have evolved into the doctrine held by partial preterism. Maybe you should also recognise that the doctrine you hold has also evolved from antireformation writings of the Jesuit priest Ribera. Neither view is correct, both views are based on the writings of Jesuit priests whose purpose for starting those doctrines (which did not become widely accepted before the late1800's/early 1900's) was to counter the reformation.
May I suggest you spend a little time researching the roots of the view you hold at CHRISTIAN ESCHATOLOGY.com
May I suggest you spend a little time researching the roots of the view you hold at CHRISTIAN ESCHATOLOGY.com
Really?!?! Just who do you think the Son of Perdition is? Who is Christ referring to if not Satan?
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
It sure reads to me that only one entity has been sentenced to perdition thus far and that is Satan. Paul confirms this in 2 Thes 2.
My apologies to you and Zone, no offense to either of you, but we have not come to the end of the age. The Great Tribulation is a future event, a very near future event as the lesson of the fig tree teaches us. Sorry also but I have ZERO interest in a view that suggests all OT prophesy has been fulfilled, when clearly it hasn't. The Mount of Olives is still intact. We are all still in mortal bodies. Christ hasn't appeared and ruled for 1,000 years and the new heaven and new earth clearly have not been established. The last enemy is death and that enemy is still here.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
It sure reads to me that only one entity has been sentenced to perdition thus far and that is Satan. Paul confirms this in 2 Thes 2.
My apologies to you and Zone, no offense to either of you, but we have not come to the end of the age. The Great Tribulation is a future event, a very near future event as the lesson of the fig tree teaches us. Sorry also but I have ZERO interest in a view that suggests all OT prophesy has been fulfilled, when clearly it hasn't. The Mount of Olives is still intact. We are all still in mortal bodies. Christ hasn't appeared and ruled for 1,000 years and the new heaven and new earth clearly have not been established. The last enemy is death and that enemy is still here.
he did lol.
doulos:
Medieval and Reformation periods
Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematized by St. Augustine in the 4th century, and this systematization carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.[11]
Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession— “Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists (of Munster -- historically most Anabaptist groups were amillennial) and others ’who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.’"[12] Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment."[13]
John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a "fiction" that is "too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation." He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the "various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."[14]
wiki
lol.doulos
:Medieval and Reformation periods
Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematized by St. Augustine in the 4th century, and this systematization carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.[11]
Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession— “Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists (of Munster -- historically most Anabaptist groups were amillennial) and others ’who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.’"[12] Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment."[13]
John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a "fiction" that is "too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation." He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the "various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."[14]
wiki
he did lol.
doulos:
Medieval and Reformation periods
Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematized by St. Augustine in the 4th century, and this systematization carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.[11]
Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession— “Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists (of Munster -- historically most Anabaptist groups were amillennial) and others ’who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.’"[12] Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment."[13]
John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a "fiction" that is "too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation." He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the "various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."[14]
wiki
lol.doulos
:Medieval and Reformation periods
Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematized by St. Augustine in the 4th century, and this systematization carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.[11]
Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession— “Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists (of Munster -- historically most Anabaptist groups were amillennial) and others ’who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.’"[12] Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment."[13]
John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a "fiction" that is "too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation." He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the "various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."[14]
wiki
H
The Rapture will not happen for at least 3 and a half yrs.; Because it happens at the mid. point of the 70th wk. Daniel. Which would make me a Pre.wrath rapturist. Please read Marvin Rosenstal's book THE PRE_WRATH RAPTURE. He leads the ZION"S GLORY, spelling is sure to be wrong,sorry. But that is the most Biblical end time position I have ever read. At the time of rapture the great tribulation is over. The word, wrath of God is used in Rev.6:17-ch.18 ; The word, Tribulation is not used in these chapters, because it is over at ch 6:12.The CHURCH is the great multitude of Rev.7:9-14. The Church of God is not apointed to wrath. The only elect ones of the Church left on earth, after the rapture, are the martyrs of all ages, their bodies are still asleep in their graves, and their spirits/souls are in Heaven, and the second group of martyrs are alive on the earth, the 144,000 Jews only, they will be beheaded by the antichrist. All martyrs are exempt from the judgment seat of Christ and will be raised at the end of the 70th wk. of Daniel. We will see the temple built before we are raptured. Look at Israel for the key for the rapture to take place. Love to all Hoffco
H
Please follow the trail of verses in the N.T. of tribulation for the Christians: Mt. 24:29 "after the tribulation of those days", then the rature. Mk.13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation", then the rapture. Acts 14:22 "we must through much tribulation enter the Kingdom" (gen. prin. of suffering for all chritians) Rev. 1:9 John is a "companion in THE tribulation" ( 2,000 plus yrs of tri. so far.) Rev.7:14 "These "came OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION" This reffers to Tribulation since Adam and Eve to the Rapture, 6,000 yrs. ) The tribulation in the end time can not be any greater than what has happened to Christians in all of history. The "great tribulation" is GREAT because it is viewed as of all ages and includes all the torture of all kinds to Christians in all ages. This is my humble opinion. And I remind myself, and all of us, that prophecy is of no priviate interpretation, only a Holy Spirit inspired man can interpret it, and this is always after the historical fact, event. We are all on the same footing, the Word of God, and no one has an private inspiration from God.! Therefore it behoves us ,to study hard.! Love to all, Hoffco
The Real Rapture is the gathering and transforming of the small group of Elect who are alive and remaining AFTER the tribulation when Christ returns. The Raptured will be on earth with Christ who has come to earth with the martyred saints of the Tribulation to avenge and defeat Satan and his forces and to live and reign for 1,000 years. This is the only view that is scriptural.