Who is greater Abraham or God?

[trofimus]

God referred to Isaac as Abraham's only son; Isaac was the child of promise, from whose line the blessing to the whole world would come in the form of the awaited Messiah, Christ Jesus.

Unique son - yes.

Where does God refer to Isaac as Abraham's only son?

"Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day." Gen 17:26

"so he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham, in addition to the wives he already had." Gen 28:9

 

[Magenta]

Where does God refer to Isaac as Abraham's only son?

Genesis 22:2

New International Version
Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

New Living Translation
"Take your son, your only son--yes, Isaac, whom you love so much--and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you."

English Standard Version
He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

New American Standard Bible
He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

King James Bible
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

 

[Magenta]

Also Genesis 22:12

New International Version
"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

New Living Translation
"Don't lay a hand on the boy!" the angel said. "Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God. You have not withheld from me even your son, your only son."

English Standard Version
He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.”

New American Standard Bible
He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."

King James Bible
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

 

[Magenta]

Also Genesis 22:16

New International Version
and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son."

New Living Translation
"This is what the LORD says: Because you have obeyed me and have not withheld even your son, your only son, I swear by my own name that

English Standard Version
and said, “By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,

New American Standard Bible
and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,

King James Bible
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

 

[trofimus]

I suspect Jews have corrupted these places. Jews probably wanted to stress their primacy or supremacy over surrounding nations so they changed the text.

---

Gen 22:2
"καὶ εἶπε· λαβὲ τὸν υἱόν σου τὸν ἀγαπητόν, ὃν ἠγάπησα"
"Take your son, the beloved one, whom you have loved"

Gen 22:12
καὶ εἶπε· μὴ ἐπιβάλῃς τὴν χεῖρά σου ἐπὶ τὸ παιδάριον μηδὲ ποιήσῃς αὐτῷ μηδέν· νῦν γὰρ ἔγνων, ὅτι φοβῇ σὺ τὸν Θεὸν καὶ οὐκ ἐφείσω τοῦ υἱοῦ σου τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ δι᾿ ἐμέ.
"Lay not your hand upon the child, neither do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, and for my sake you have not spared your beloved son"

Gen 22:16
κατ᾿ ἐμαυτοῦ ὤμοσα, λέγει Κύριος, οὗ εἵνεκεν ἐποίησας τὸ ρῆμα τοῦτο, καὶ οὐκ ἐφείσω τοῦ υἱοῦ σου τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ δι᾿ ἐμέ
"I have sworn by myself, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and on my account have not spared your beloved son"

---

Thats why I do not use Jewish OT. Its very obviously influenced. These places would be also clear contradictions, because we know Abraham had more sons:

"Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day."
Gen 17:26

 

[Magenta]

I suspect Jews have corrupted these places. Jews probably wanted to stress their primacy or supremacy over surrounding nations so they changed the text.

Thats why I do not use Jewish OT. Its very obviously influenced. These places would be also clear contradictions, because we know Abraham had more sons:

"Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day."
Gen 17:26

Yes, for sure Abe had other sons, but none other than Isaac was the child of promise through Sarah. That is what is being stressed

 

[BeyondET]

Isaac was his ‘only’ son because Ishmael had been sent away when Isaac was weaned. Ishmael had gone to live in the Wilderness of Paran.

 

[trofimus]

Yes, for sure Abe had other sons, but none other than Isaac was the child of promise through Sarah. That is what is being stressed

As I demonstrated, it is not present in older texts, so it was tempered with later for some reasons.

 

[BeyondET]

Thus these verses.

Genesis 22:8 So the child grew and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the same day that Isaac was weaned. 9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, "Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac." 11 And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son. 12 But God said to Abraham, "Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. 13 "Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed." 14 So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting it on her shoulder, he gave it and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away.

 

[Magenta]

As I demonstrated, it is not present in older texts, so it was tempered with later for some reasons.

The reason is obvious and pointed out. Isaac is the child of promise, birthed through Sarah, from whom the blessing to the whole world would come i.e. Christ Jesus; none of the other sons were.

 

[trofimus]

The reason is obvious and pointed out. Isaac is the child of promise, birthed through Sarah, from whom the blessing to the whole world would come i.e. Christ Jesus; none of the other sons were.

Well, we know that without a need to change the Word of God.

If some Jews wanted to be the only real true "sons of Abraham" (as they advocated also before Christ) and changed the text accordingly, I would not invent some "theology" to explain this error... I would rather return to the right text.

 

[Magenta]

Well, we know that without a need to change the Word of God.

If some Jews wanted to be the only real true "sons of Abraham" (as they advocated also before Christ) and changed the text accordingly, I would not invent some "theology" to explain this error... I would rather return to the right text.

The text gives Isaac as the son of promise through a ninety year old previously life-long barren woman. Islam ignores this and makes Ishmael the son of promise. We see the outcome of that...

 

[BeyondET]

The reason is obvious and pointed out. Isaac is the child of promise, birthed through Sarah, from whom the blessing to the whole world would come i.e. Christ Jesus; none of the other sons were.

Indeed Isaac was the heir of Abraham, to think some want to include Ishmael the founder of the Islam religion. Is boggling.

 

[trofimus]

The text gives Isaac as the son of promise through a ninety year old previously life-long barren woman. Islam ignores this and makes Ishmael the son of promise. We see the outcome of that...

And Paul says that these sons are symbols of two covenants The Bible has many layers.

 

[trofimus]

Indeed Isaac was the heir of Abraham, to think some want to include Ishmael the founder of the Islam religion. Is boggling.

Islam was founded by Mohammad, not by Ishmael. Let us not try to make him evil, just because he was not the promised son.

 

[Magenta]

Islam was founded by Mohammad, not by Ishmael. Let us not try to make him evil, just because he was not the promised son.

Mohammed gives weight to his claim to prophet-hood by claiming to be a descendant of Ismael as if Ishmael were the son from whom the blessing to the whole world is to come.

 

[trofimus]

Mohammed gives weight to his claim to prophet-hood by claiming to be a descendant of Ismael as if Ishmael were the son from whom the blessing to the whole world is to come.

Thats the problem of Mohammed, not of "poor ol´" Ishmael.

Jews claim to be this or that, muslims claim to be this or that, all is just a claim.

 

[BeyondET]

Mohammed gives weight to his claim to prophet-hood by claiming to be a descendant of Ismael as if Ishmael were the son from whom the blessing to the whole world is to come.

Good post many don't know about Mohammed's claims of being a descendant of Ishmael, he might have been for he was a strange dude for sure. lol

 

[Magenta]

Thats the problem of Mohammed, not of "poor ol´" Ishmael.

Jews claim to be this or that, muslims claim to be this or that, all is just a claim.

The Bible affirms that it was the Israelites from whom the Messiah was to come, not the Ishmaelites. God changed Issac's son Jacob's name to Israel

 

[trofimus]

The Bible affirms that it was the Israelites from whom the Messiah was to come, not the Ishmaelites. God changed Issac's son Jacob's name to Israel

Nothing against that. But it became 700 years before Mohamed. Today´s claims of muslims or jews are all unbased.

For example DNA tests of people in Israel showed they are less Jews than Palestines. We must take claims and wishes of such middle-eastern nations with a huge discretion

And we must also be very careful when using their sacred texts. Its tempered with heavily to conform to their wishes.