Nothing in the Bible that says God won't do signs and wonders? Or nothing that supports the idea that we should seek after a sign before a person can believe him who has no form. or other wise they have no assurance they have the Holy Spirit?
Straw man argument. I don't see any Oneness folks on here arguing their doctrine. I'm trying to recall the context.
Also, I was pointing out how foolish it was for you to say that someone who saw a limb grow back at a revival saw a lying sign and wonder and attribute it to Satan. If you don't believe God is giving revelation today, then you have no basis to claim that you knew that was a lying sign and wonder. It is foolish to attribute such things to Satan, because when Jesus' opponents accused Him of casting out demons by Beelzebub when He was doing so by the Spirit of God, He warned them that blaspheming the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come.
Just consider the situation. Biblically, you have no basis for concluding that an arm growing out at a revival must be a work of Satan. Even if you do not believe in certain spiritual gifts today, there are plenty of promises in the Bible about God answering prayer. If the Spirit of God were at work in growing out a man's arm, and you attributed the work to Satan, how is that different from those who attributed a work Christ did by the Spirit to Beelzebub?
Do you think it is not forgivable to attribute a work of the Holy Spirit to Beelzebub, but forgivable to attribute a work to Satan? Who do you think Beelzebub is, anyway? In one Gospel. those Christ warned had attributed His work to an unclean spirit.
It seems to me that one of the dangers of cessationist beliefs combined with combined with putting more weight on one's arrogant confidence in one's own opinions than on the fear of God, is that it can lead to blasphemy.
I would think we would get under the authority of His law and believe what it says.Why make the law below to no effect.
1Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
I am not an unbeliever, so that prophecy about not hearing God when they hear speaking in tongues is not fulfilled in me. This verse does not contradict the other teaching of scripture about speaking in tongues. This verse does not contradict the teaching in I Corinthians 12 that lists speaking in tongues among spiritual gifts given to believers 'for the common good.'
This verse does not contradict the teaching earlier in the passage that he who speaks in tongues edifies himself. It does not contradict the teaching that he who blesses in tongues gives thanks well. It does not contradict the teaching of the passage that if what is spoken in tongues is interpreted, it edifies the congregation.
The verse you quote does not say that signs are only for unbelievers. You seem to be imagining that when you read the verse, based on previous comments. But it is not in the verse.
It is as if someone quoted the verse and said, "See. We are not allowed to eat chocolate." as if the verse proved there case.
Why seek after other gods through a sign and a wonder in order to have assurance a person has the Spirit of Christ?
I'm certainly not going to do that. But your question is, again, very confused. Why would the type of false prophet who says to follow other gods want to give assurance that someone has the Spirit of Christ? That makes no sense at all? Why would Baal worshippers say anything at all about the 'Spirit of Christ'?
Foolishness which you said of myself is in regard to those who say walk by sight... do a trick, show me a miracle and then I will believe...why walk by faith (the unseen)
I see here that you are not consistent with your own philosophy. You object to people who believe first, and as a result things happen that they and others can see. You seem to be attributing to them false motivations, that they will only believe if they see a miracle first. And you seem to think that if someone believes God does miracles, he must be motivated by some bad or questionable desire, to see a miracle as proof of his salvation, or to do a miracle as a work to earn his salvation, or that he is wanting to do a miracle or see a miracle to prove that he has the Spirit of Christ.
Now you are saying if you see a miracle you will believe. That is exactly the motivation you want to readily attribute to others, a motivation you have written against constantly.
I believe God does types of miracles I've never seen Him do, because He has revealed this in the Bible. I believe it without seeing it. You say if you see, you will believe. So who is walking by faith and who is walking by sight on this particular issue.
This has to do with no God working in a person’s heart. Christ said it is an evil generation that seeks after signs and wonders before a person will have the confidence they do have God in their heart.
Christ said a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign. He did not say that all who seek signs are wicked and adulterous.
A wicked and adulterous generation drink water. If you drink water, will that make you evil or adulterous?
If someone jumps out of an airplane at 10,000 feet without a parachute, he will die. George Washington is dead. Did he jump out of an airplane at 10,000 feet?
The apostles asked Jesus for the sign of His coming and of the end of the age. He did not refuse their request or call them wicked and adulterous. Instead, He gave them their answer.
The apostles prayed in Acts 4 for God to stretch out His hand to heal and to do signs and wonders for the sake of Jesus. God answered their prayer.
No such thing as sign gift.
Who is using the term 'sign gift' in this discussion? Oh yeah. That's right. It's you. Why do you keep on with the straw man arguments. I suggest you look up 'straw man' in the discussion. Btw, I don't know what you mean by 'sign gift.' You seem to have your own understanding of a lot of things.
If I wrote a paragraph in response to your post about how Christians were allowed to eat chocolate, that would also be a straw man.
It only shows a person has no assurance in one’s heart.(no faith)
What is 'it'? A sign gift? If you don't believe sign gifts exist, how can a sign gift show a person has no assurance in one's heart?
Christian faith comes by hearing God.
When Christ was doing miracles, faith came in response to hearing the word. When the apostles did miracles, faith came in response to hearing the word of God. Some people paid close attention after they saw miracles, like the Samaritans Philip preached to. There were those who heard the word and believed after the saw a miracle, like Sergius Paulus. But they all heard the word before they believed the word.
Not one miracle was performed that was not used as a parable in respect to some aspect of the gospel program.
If that's supposed to be an argument that the Spirit does not manifest in certain individuals through the working of miracles like the Bible teaches, then that's a rather lame argument.
Christ is no circus seal, do a trick, and I will believe... is for those who have no assurance of Christ in their heart.
Christ performed numerous miracles and healings, and that should not be compared to a circus seal.
Our brethren, like those mentioned in the New Testament in the first century, who came to Christ after seeing miracles, had genuine faith, even if they came to faith after seeing miracles. It is wrong to those early saints as having no faith in their heart because Christ did miracles.
You can go on making up pronouncements that aren't Biblical, quoting verses and drawing conclusions not supported by the verses if you want to, but it is nto edifying.
Why would I choose the witness of men over the witness of God word? When I first believed according to his revealed word ,the gospel of my salvation I was given all the confidence needed, called walking by faith.
Signs a for those who rebel they have no assurance of salvation..
You just make junk up. Jesus gave the apostles a sign. He said and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven. They'd asked him for the sing of His coming. Where do you get off judging the apostles as being rebels with no assurance of salvation?
What about Abraham, who received the sign of circumcision. I pointed this out to you earlier, yet you continue to post things like this. Why do you do this?
There are certain signs that were given to unbelievers.
Mat 26:48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
There are different kinds of signs. This was a sign from Judas.
To seek for a sign before I would believe would be to follow after the apostate Jews they had no assurance of their salvation.
I hope all our posters on this forum don't drive around you near any four-way intersections. If all signs are bad, you would probably avoid those stop signs, too.
If you take verses about signs being given to unbelievers, and ignore the verses about signs given to men of faith, and conclude signs are only for unbelievers, that is WRONGLY dividing the word of truth. You don't have the authority to make up new doctrine.
A real concern here is that when Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God, and His opponents said He did it by Beelzebub, he told them that whoever spoke a word against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come. So you should be extremely careful with your comments and stop being so reckless with spiritual things.
Speaking against the Holy Spirit by not have any assurance they have the Holy Spirit unless God performs some trick has nothing to do with Beelzebub. Speaking a word against the Holy Spirit has to do with requiring a sign before one believes.
Jesus is right and you are wrong. Read Matthew 12. Asking for a sign before one believes is not a good thing, but it is not the unforgivable sin. Thomas said he wouldn't believe unless he put his fingers in the prints in Jesus' hands, and put his hand in his side. Jesus appeared and told him to do that. He said, "and be not faithless, but believing." Jesus accepted him. In John 17, Jesus said of his disciples that none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. Only Judas was lost. So Thomas did not commit the unpardonable sin and you are wrong.....again. You need to stop making this stuff up.
Paul didn't believe until he had a supernatural experience with Christ. He was blinded. There was a supernatural voice, a light from heaven. God saved Him, too.
Without parables Christ the word of God spoke not hiding the spiritual meaning from those who must see a sign before they would believe. .
God was merciful to Paul and revealed many things to him, even though he was an unbeliever until he had that supernatural experience on the road to Damascus.
You need to quit making stuff up.
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:9
Why would you ignore the warning 2Th 2:9 and go above that which is written other than you have no assurance of salvation unless you see a sign?
I am not ignoring this warning about the man of sin. The Bible also teaches that the Holy Spirit gives the gift of the working of miracles and gifts of healing to individuals as he wills.
Concluding that someone... who you don't know... whose arm allegedly grew out at a crusade, must have done so because the man of sin has appeared and made his arm grow... is not a reasonable conclusion. If someone's arm grows out, that is not proof the man of sin did it. You aren't making sense.
And you need to stop with the foolish allegations like the one in the quote above. Paul believed the Spirit gave individuals gifts like the working of miracles and gifts of healing. That doesn't mean he had no assurance of salvation after he became a Christian.
Joh 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
And then he healed someone, and the one who witnessed it believed. You are arguing against your own case with this verse.
The word is confirmed by signs not the signs confirm the word.
That makes no sense. One is in the active voice. The other is passive, but the meaning is the same.
That would be turning things upside down .It shows they have no assurance they have the Holy Spirit.
There should be plenty of verses that say seek after a sign before a person can have assurance they have the Holy Spirit.
I am not arguing that someone has to see a sign to have assurance that he has the Holy Ghost. You are arguing for a straw man again. I am pointing out that a lot of the pronouncements you make contradict verses in the Bible.
Perhaps you can share a few that would help us understand that it is not a evil generation (natural man that does seek after them?
How many times have I pointed out that the apostles asked Jesus for the sign of His coming in Matthew 24, and that he even called one thing a 'sign'? And (since you don't differentiate at all between types of signs apparently), I pointed out that Abraham, already justified by faith, received the 'sign' of circumcision.
That's enough to disprove a lot of the nonsense you keep repeating.
Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
The apostles to whom Jesus said 'ye are clean' asked Jesus for a sign, and He gave them a lengthy response, even specifically calling one thing He mentioned a sign. The apostles also asked God to do signs and wonders, and He answered their prayer.
So a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. Clean apostles sought a sign. The apostles prayed for God to do signs. These were probably different kinds of signs, but they were still signs.