History From An Arab Point of View

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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
770
113
#23
I am an American, born and bred, with no Arab nor Jewish roots. Years ago I used to be vehemently pro Israel but that has changed. Now I'm neither pro Israel nor pro Arab.

There is no question at all that the Arabs in the region have suffered greatly at the hands of the Israelis, from land grabs and harsh rule in occupied areas. And there is no question that Israelis have suffered from terror strikes from Arabs who feel desperate to regain their rights and lands.

That being said, many/many efforts have been made since 1948, about 75 years, to bring peace to the region and the Arabs and Israelis. Yet each side steadfastly refuses to make necessary concessions for a true peace process and peace.

And Israel is as much to blame as the Arabs for the ongoing and never ending strife. Israel has had the military and economic power in the region for many decades. Israel has the power to grant concessions for peace, but they don't. And the Arabs also have the prerogative to grant concessions for peace, but they won't.

It's a great disappointment that the Arabs and Israelis can't make peace. Maybe they hate each other too much, the 'Eye for an Eye' thing. So, I am neither for either side and believe that they should be allowed to go at each other, until they get tired of the killing and hatred.

Is there hope? Always there is hope. Look at the Protestants and Catholics of Northern Ireland. Sworn enemies and killing each other for decades. But, they managed to come together and make peace. They may not love one another but they did establish a peace within the country and among themselves. Also look at the peoples of the North and South of the USA who had the bloodiest of civil wars. Yet today, they are one. They are brothers/sisters with each other and even love one another.

The Arabs and Israelis should look to the people of Northern Ireland and see that peace is possible, despite all the hatred and killing. PEACE IS POSSIBLE BUT IT'S COMPLETLY UP TO BOTH THE ARABS AND ISRAELIS.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
493
217
43
PDX
#24
I am an American, born and bred, with no Arab nor Jewish roots. Years ago I used to be vehemently pro Israel but that has changed. Now I'm neither pro Israel nor pro Arab.

There is no question at all that the Arabs in the region have suffered greatly at the hands of the Israelis, from land grabs and harsh rule in occupied areas. And there is no question that Israelis have suffered from terror strikes from Arabs who feel desperate to regain their rights and lands.

That being said, many/many efforts have been made since 1948, about 75 years, to bring peace to the region and the Arabs and Israelis. Yet each side steadfastly refuses to make necessary concessions for a true peace process and peace.

And Israel is as much to blame as the Arabs for the ongoing and never ending strife. Israel has had the military and economic power in the region for many decades. Israel has the power to grant concessions for peace, but they don't. And the Arabs also have the prerogative to grant concessions for peace, but they won't.

It's a great disappointment that the Arabs and Israelis can't make peace. Maybe they hate each other too much, the 'Eye for an Eye' thing. So, I am neither for either side and believe that they should be allowed to go at each other, until they get tired of the killing and hatred.

Is there hope? Always there is hope. Look at the Protestants and Catholics of Northern Ireland. Sworn enemies and killing each other for decades. But, they managed to come together and make peace. They may not love one another but they did establish a peace within the country and among themselves. Also look at the peoples of the North and South of the USA who had the bloodiest of civil wars. Yet today, they are one. They are brothers/sisters with each other and even love one another.

The Arabs and Israelis should look to the people of Northern Ireland and see that peace is possible, despite all the hatred and killing. PEACE IS POSSIBLE BUT IT'S COMPLETLY UP TO BOTH THE ARABS AND ISRAELIS.
From my studies of the Bible it seems that this hostility is pre-ordained, though it makes little sense to me. From what the Quran and Muslims taught me, early Muslims were exposed to both Jews and Christians on the peninsula. These days I just try to mind my own business and worship God (Allah SWT).

The Levant was peopled by both Arabs and Jews though perhaps uncrowded. After WW2, it seems that the Jewish population in the area reached 90,000. From my own experience there are many sects of Jews. Sadly some of them are quite obnoxious, and entitled.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,826
25,999
113
#25
I just try to mind my own business and worship God (Allah SWT).
The religion of the god of Islam denies the divinity of Jesus Christ.

The religion of the god you worship denies and outright contradicts much of the Bible.


Islam denies also that God has a Son. They put Ishmael in Isaac's place as the son of promise to Abraham.

Including the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Jesus said in not knowing Who He was, you would die in your sins.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,905
2,837
113
#26
Iran = Shia, Saudi Arabia =Sunni, um mostly. IMHO the West has generally treated the oil rich countries badly. Though I live in America, I do not see our pseudo democracy, or Oligarchy as the best. We live in a fallen world where we constantly turn to evil.
To quote Sir Winston Churchill, democracy is the worst form of government. Apart from any other form of government. My test of any nation at any time is whether or not I'd want to live there. There is no Muslim majority country that I'd even want to visit.

The rise of Islam coincides with the decline of the church in the West. It is not a coincidence. My late friend and mentor had a vision in 1974. He saw a black mist rising out of the ground. It was Islam. It surely was prophetic. There are large communities of Muslims in France, UK and other European countries. Muslim countries pretty much own the UK. I'm English by birth. I owe my parents a debt for taking us out of there in the 1960's. There are Sharia courts in the UK. It is even possible that the UK will become a majority Muslim nation. Muslim family birth rates are much higher.

I believe that Islam, Judaism and Roman Catholicism eventually will merge to form a world religion that will be promoted as the answer to religious discord. It's being worked on right now. Even a Pentecostal group in Australia had a joint series of meetings with Muslim groups. I don't know how Christians can be so deceived.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,905
2,837
113
#27
I am an American, born and bred, with no Arab nor Jewish roots. Years ago I used to be vehemently pro Israel but that has changed. Now I'm neither pro Israel nor pro Arab.

There is no question at all that the Arabs in the region have suffered greatly at the hands of the Israelis, from land grabs and harsh rule in occupied areas. And there is no question that Israelis have suffered from terror strikes from Arabs who feel desperate to regain their rights and lands.

That being said, many/many efforts have been made since 1948, about 75 years, to bring peace to the region and the Arabs and Israelis. Yet each side steadfastly refuses to make necessary concessions for a true peace process and peace.

And Israel is as much to blame as the Arabs for the ongoing and never ending strife. Israel has had the military and economic power in the region for many decades. Israel has the power to grant concessions for peace, but they don't. And the Arabs also have the prerogative to grant concessions for peace, but they won't.

It's a great disappointment that the Arabs and Israelis can't make peace. Maybe they hate each other too much, the 'Eye for an Eye' thing. So, I am neither for either side and believe that they should be allowed to go at each other, until they get tired of the killing and hatred.

Is there hope? Always there is hope. Look at the Protestants and Catholics of Northern Ireland. Sworn enemies and killing each other for decades. But, they managed to come together and make peace. They may not love one another but they did establish a peace within the country and among themselves. Also look at the peoples of the North and South of the USA who had the bloodiest of civil wars. Yet today, they are one. They are brothers/sisters with each other and even love one another.

The Arabs and Israelis should look to the people of Northern Ireland and see that peace is possible, despite all the hatred and killing. PEACE IS POSSIBLE BUT IT'S COMPLETLY UP TO BOTH THE ARABS AND ISRAELIS.
Palestine is a myth. It was the name given to Israel by the Romans as they attempted (in vain) to erase even the memory of Israel from the earth. The Ottoman Empire controlled so-called Palestine which was home for both Jews and Arabs. There were no Muslims until the 7th century.

There is no possibility of peace between Arab and Jew. There will come a time of pseudo peace but it will not last. The Saudis need help from Israel to contain Iran, but that's about it.

The Arab nations (apart from Egypt) simply do not recognise Israel's right to exist. That and the duplicity of Britain's dealings with the Middle East have created the problem. Only the return of Jesus will fix it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#28
The rise of Islam coincides with the decline of the church in the West. It is not a coincidence.
Not sure I agree with that..

The Western church declined into utter paganism by the 10th century, not because of Islam rising in the 7th century in the East, seeing that it had separated itself from the Eastern church altogether long before Antioch and Alexandria and Jerusalem fell.

Constantinople remained Christian until the 15th century but the Western church had been apostate for hundreds of years by then.

Perhaps because the Eastern empire was too busy dealing with Islam when the city of Rome fell, things progressed with the RCC as they did, but that's very indirect.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,905
2,837
113
#29
Not sure I agree with that..

The Western church declined into utter paganism by the 10th century, not because of Islam rising in the 7th century in the East, seeing that it had separated itself from the Eastern church altogether long before Antioch and Alexandria and Jerusalem fell.

Constantinople remained Christian until the 15th century but the Western church had been apostate for hundreds of years by then.

Perhaps because the Eastern empire was too busy dealing with Islam when the city of Rome fell, things progressed with the RCC as they did, but that's very indirect.
Islam was hardly a problem until the late 1960's and early 70's. We had the Arab wars with Israel, the oil crisis, the Iranian revolution and Muslim terrorism all increasing. We have Muslims doing by stealth what they could not do by conquest. The Muslim invasion of Europe is well underway. Not-so-Great Britain has been swamped by Muslims. The land of the Wesleys, Spurgeon, Taylor and people like them is now the land of Khan, Sharia Law and mosques everywhere. The most common boys name now is Mohammed. They are being welcomed into the armed forces. That's wonderful, until they become radicalised and use their training against infidels who took them in and gave them refuge. Afghanistan was secular until the 1990's. Now the Taliban is showing the true face of Islam.

I was saved 50 years ago. The church was much different then. Far from perfect, but better than it is now. And Islam was nowhere near the influence and power that it is now.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#30
Islam was hardly a problem until the late 1960's and early 70's. We had the Arab wars with Israel, the oil crisis, the Iranian revolution and Muslim terrorism all increasing. We have Muslims doing by stealth what they could not do by conquest. The Muslim invasion of Europe is well underway. Not-so-Great Britain has been swamped by Muslims. The land of the Wesleys, Spurgeon, Taylor and people like them is now the land of Khan, Sharia Law and mosques everywhere. The most common boys name now is Mohammed. They are being welcomed into the armed forces. That's wonderful, until they become radicalised and use their training against infidels who took them in and gave them refuge. Afghanistan was secular until the 1990's. Now the Taliban is showing the true face of Islam.

I was saved 50 years ago. The church was much different then. Far from perfect, but better than it is now. And Islam was nowhere near the influence and power that it is now.
ah - you were talking about more modern times.
I have been knee-deep in church history classes for a few months and those things are prevalent on my mind, so when I read "western church" i think, RCC and it's precursors in the bishopric of the city of Rime
 
Sep 25, 2023
892
76
28
Washington State
#31
The Koran and Islam were created to be in conflict with Christianity, Christians, and the Gospel. All you have to do is examine the pages of the Koran. It was an all-out attack on the Gospel.
I would be interested to learn what you are talking about. It is my understanding that many of the "attacks" can be interpreted as self-defense. I am a Christian. I do not follow Christianity.
 

Zandar

Well-known member
May 16, 2023
1,191
479
83
#33
I love all the old tech in this video like the old loom.