The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE

[dcontroversal]

why do people not get this? I will never get it.

they were saved because God shut them in the ark. No because of the water. the water was Gods wrath!

Well, to be quite frank they don't get it and will never get it as long as they trust into a gospel of a different kind which has no power to save.....if you want to see you have to be in the LIGHT, but if one remains in darkness they will not be able to see anything....tragic that they have no understanding of LIKE FIGURE.....kind of like those who trust into bleeding statues of Mary or an image of Jesus in a picture or even a cross hanging on the wall instead of trusting into the actual person of Jesus...they will trust into a painting, but not into the one whom is pictured in the painting........!

 

[dcontroversal]

Agree.

I was immersed. I was immersed in Christ by God himself.

I was immersed in water after..

No doubt and again they fail to understand that water immersion is the public testimony of faith and belief into the resurrection......it is the picture and painting of the faith that is already possessed inwardly.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No doubt and again they fail to understand that water immersion is the public testimony of faith and belief into the resurrection......it is the picture and painting of the faith that is already possessed inwardly.....

Yes, it is a teaching tool. to teach others.. and to give us an opportunity to give a testimony

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, it is a teaching tool. to teach others.. and to give us an opportunity to give a testimony

I agree for sure......as it should be.......!

 

[newbirth]

again, your drawing on straws, and not listening to logic. Your reading it according to your own belief system, and missing the point.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HE SAVED US, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1. Both doing and saving are past tense verbs, in other words, they are past actions already completed.
2. The word mercy, it means not earned, or not given because we did something, but was given even though we do NOT DESERVE IT. another fine words is GRACE. or do you not understand what Grace is?
3. The final two key words are washing and regeneration. We are washed by the HS, not water baptism, and we are reborn by the Holy Spirit. not by our act. It is the work of God. JUST like it said in the passage about our baptism and new birth.

as for acts. Read it in the greek, it does not fit your interpretation. the baptism was a result of being saved, not in order to be saved, even the old english texts write it that way, The bible must completely agree. it can not say one thin in one place. and something totaly different someplace else. If it does that, The bible is a fake and a lie, and useless. because it contradicts itself.

◄ Titus 3:5 ►
Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouk[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ex[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐξ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]by[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2041 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ergōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔργων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]works[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῶν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1343 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dikaiosynē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δικαιοσύνῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]righteousness,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ha[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4160 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]epoiēsamen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐποιήσαμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]practiced[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1473 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēmeis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡμεῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]we,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-N1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]alla[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2596 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kata[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κατὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]according to[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-GM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1656 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eleos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔλεος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]mercy,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4982 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]esōsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔσωσεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he saved[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1473 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēmas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡμᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]us,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-A1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dia[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]διὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3067 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]loutrou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]λουτροῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] washing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3824 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]palingenesias[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]παλινγενεσίας[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of regeneration,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]342 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]anakainōseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀνακαινώσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]renewing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4151 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Pneumatos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Πνεύματος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of [the] Spirit[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]40 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Hagiou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἁγίου,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Holy;[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Greek reads exactly as I read

 

[elf3]

One question would be. How does Christ bring us into an intimate relationship to Him? Would it be trough water baptism of through baptism of the Holy Spirit? Colossians 2:12 is not talking about a water baptism but a baptism of the Spirit. (Reference 1 Corinthians 12:13)

 

[newbirth]

IT pleased GOD by the FOOLISHNESS of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE.
SAVE=SOZO...to protect, to save, to preserve to make whole, to heal
Believe=pisteuo=to have faith, to entrust, put trust into, to commit to trust

What saves you....actual faith into JESUS or the PICTURE of the resurrection?

Quite simple!

He that BELIEVETH on the SON hath (is having) everlasting life! <----present reality!

This is what they were told to preach......
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]And ye are witnesses of these things.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


so why don't you preach repentance and remission of sin as Peter did...you preach believe and you are saved...that is not what Christ said to preach....
[SUP]

38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Tateej]

I agree for sure....and then they will argue that the thief is not a N.T. example of faith saving and or argue that he had immersion...even though it is obvious that he, while on the cross, recognized the Lordship of Jesus and Jesus acknowledged his faith....Hagar makes the bible and the chapter of faith and she had no immersion, John was called the greatest in the KINGDOM of GOD second only to JESUS and he seemingly had no IMMERSION and PAUL'S statement about the fact that HE WAS NOT SENT TO BAPTISE......if baptism is so important to biblical salvation NO WAY PAUL would say that while being led by the spirit as if it was necessary then PAUL would have said...I am sent to preach the GOSPEL and then to IMMERSE those believing that they might be saved....crazy for sure......!

I don't believe that you read my post on the previous page of the finished study on sozo/soteria. As from that study one finds many verses that say more than just Beleif (faith) in Christ saves. Read it, not assume you already know the scriptures inside and out. I learn daily as does the rest of the world. http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/101779-conclusion-sozo-study-good-stuff.html

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't believe that you read my post on the previous page of the finished study on sozo/soteria. As from that study one finds many verses that say more than just Beleif (faith) in Christ saves. Read it, not assume you already know the scriptures inside and out. I learn daily as does the rest of the world. http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/101779-conclusion-sozo-study-good-stuff.html

Faith saves void of works, baptism, church membership, back flipping down the isle, speaking mumbo jumbo....I have intently studied for the last 25 years and my bible teaches me clearly....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE those that believe and not to be removed from the SIMPLICITY that is found in Christ......

The first thing I always do besides pray is to do a complete word study on every verse that I am considering.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

This is what they were told to preach......
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[SUP]47[/SUP]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]And ye are witnesses of these things.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


so why don't you preach repentance and remission of sin as Peter did...you preach believe and you are saved...that is not what Christ said to preach....
[SUP]

38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Look dude...no matter how many times you post your baptismal regeneration it will not change the facts....here is the difference between you and I....

1. I believed into JESUS and was saved and then was immersed as my public testimony which testifies to the world BY A PICTURE, ANTITYPE that I believe in the resurrection

2. YOU believe into water and works for salvation and trust the PICTURE over the SIMPLISTIC faith that is found in JESUS and in doing so trust into a gospel of a different kind.

SIMPLE to me......SO....you can keep using scripture out of context to promote water salvation and it will not change my mind ever! I am more than willing to trust the path that has been revealed by the bible as opposed to a man made Catholic theology that has been swallowed by many religions that name Jesus, but trust into water and works in reality over Jesus and his faith!

 

[elf3]

Faith saves void of works, baptism, church membership, back flipping down the isle, speaking mumbo jumbo....I have intently studied for the last 25 years and my bible teaches me clearly....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE those that believe and not to be removed from the SIMPLICITY that is found in Christ......

The first thing I always do besides pray is to do a complete word study on every verse that I am considering.....!

I hear ya!

And that type of study is way better than "according to the dictates of personal conscience".

 

[dcontroversal]

I hear ya!

And that type of study is way better than "according to the dictates of personal conscience".

Yeah I know.......the bible simply teaches believe and you have everlasting life.....baptism is the public testimony of acceptance and belief into the resurrection of Jesus......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

◄ Titus 3:5 ►
Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouk[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ex[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐξ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]by[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2041 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ergōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔργων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]works[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τῶν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1343 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dikaiosynē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δικαιοσύνῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]righteousness,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ha[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4160 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]epoiēsamen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐποιήσαμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]practiced[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1473 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēmeis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡμεῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]we,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-N1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]alla[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2596 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kata[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κατὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]according to[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-GM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1656 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eleos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔλεος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]mercy,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4982 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]esōsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔσωσεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he saved[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1473 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēmas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡμᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]us,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-A1P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1223 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dia[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]διὰ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]through[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3067 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]loutrou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]λουτροῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] washing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3824 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]palingenesias[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]παλινγενεσίας[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of regeneration,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]342 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]anakainōseōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀνακαινώσεως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]renewing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4151 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Pneumatos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Πνεύματος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of [the] Spirit[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]40 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Hagiou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ἁγίου,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Holy;[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Greek reads exactly as I read

No it does not.

Because your interpretation has you washing yourself in a physical baptism, . and Not God washing you in spiritual way and rebirthing you spiritually by the power of the HS.

And again, Both works and saved are past tense verbs, so your logic is destroyed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One question would be. How does Christ bring us into an intimate relationship to Him? Would it be trough water baptism of through baptism of the Holy Spirit? Colossians 2:12 is not talking about a water baptism but a baptism of the Spirit. (Reference 1 Corinthians 12:13)

Like the pharisees of old, Man has to feel he has a part in saving himself to deny self and give it all to Christ is against human nature. why else do you think there are so many religions out there. It is all about self.

 

[dcontroversal]

No it does not.

Because your interpretation has you washing yourself in a physical baptism, . and Not God washing you in spiritual way and rebirthing you spiritually by the power of the HS.

And again, Both works and saved are past tense verbs, so your logic is destroyed.

No doubt.....It amazes me how many scriptures and proofs that can be posted and believers into works or water will reject hundreds of scriptures in context so as to swallow a few sets of verses out of context, while ignoring words that teach to the contrary........unbelievable for sure....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Like the pharisees of old, Man has to feel he has a part in saving himself to deny self and give it all to Christ is against human nature. why else do you think there are so many religions out there. It is all about self.

No doubt....another interesting truth that goes to your post....Broad is the way that leads to destruction as straight and narrow is the way unto life and few there be that find it....

1. Broad way-->most religions that name Jesus teach works, water, religious activities etc....

2. Narrow way-->the few that teach salvation by grace dia faith into the completed work of Jesus void of works, water, religion etc.....

 

[elf3]

Like the pharisees of old, Man has to feel he has a part in saving himself to deny self and give it all to Christ is against human nature. why else do you think there are so many religions out there. It is all about self.

True Christianity is the only religion were we cant save ourselves. Were our works do not add to our salvation. But because we are selfish creation we think we can.

 

[dcontroversal]

True Christianity is the only religion were we cant save ourselves. Were our works do not add to our salvation. But because we are selfish creation we think we can.

You know...offering one's own works goes all the way back to Cain which was rejected by the way.....Cain makes the list of three in Jude concerning false teachers, of the which the mists of darkness is reserved for ever!

 

[Tateej]

I admire your credentials but even the wisest man to ever live had issues being true and righteous with God. It doesn't matter how much or long you study, that doesn't kill all room for error. So let's take that my faith alone saves me idea. I have Beleif (Faith) in God but I do nothing to help others, the church, or anyone. I turn my back against anything God says to do, but I still have faith in Him am I still saved in faith alone? As I murder someone, get caught stealing, lie constantly, but I still believe having faith in God. Am I still saved by faith alone? What about cheating others in deals, gambling, adultery, but I still have faith in God. Does my actions mean nothing if it's only my faith alone that saves me? I can take all scriptures away that could even remotely destroy my view and be blind to them cause I don't want to think that way or it kills what I've been taught growing up. In reality I have challenged everything I've been taught growing up because I want to show 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 Thes. 5:21 in my response. I don't know you, but I find your claim against my belief. I'm not using advanced/complicated logic, nor do I want to use greek unless I downright have to, but a heart is a heart and a soul is very precious indeed. Answer this question from James, What does it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and have not works? Can faith save him? Continue reading chapter 2 for the answer!

 

[newbirth]

Faith saves void of works, baptism, church membership, back flipping down the isle, speaking mumbo jumbo....I have intently studied for the last 25 years and my bible teaches me clearly....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE those that believe and not to be removed from the SIMPLICITY that is found in Christ......

The first thing I always do besides pray is to do a complete word study on every verse that I am considering.....!

did you miss the part where it says faith without works is dead? and what do they preach...is it the same as Philip and Peter.....?