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My comment
Abraham was the father of Issac and Jacob [Israel] .... and this is the side from which came Jesus Christ the Son of the living God
The blessing is Jesus Christ Himself and His willingness and ability to save those who seek Him for eternity
The Lord is an Israelite by His humanity and lineage [Revelation 5:5]
The woman of Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel and Jesus the "manchild"
Abraham was the father of Issac and Jacob [Israel] .... and this is the side from which came Jesus Christ the Son of the living God
The blessing is Jesus Christ Himself and His willingness and ability to save those who seek Him for eternity
The Lord is an Israelite by His humanity and lineage [Revelation 5:5]
The woman of Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel and Jesus the "manchild"
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E
Did jesus or anyone say Jews are antichrist?
thats what I hear in here. So am I right or wrong?
do you even listen to what is being discussed? why do you think people are calling you out. it is one things to say unbelieving jews are antichrist, and unbelieving muslims are antichrist, etc etc etc. But all we hear is about a nation of people. and how they are all sinners,
which I do not even know why we are discussing then, because it has already been shown that Isreal would not be restored until AFTER they repent and STOP becoming antichrist, yet you all keep using the same old argument, They are antichrist. How can God give them something when they deny him??
NO ONE EVER SAID HE WOULD. SO WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP??
and you wonder why people keep getting so upset!
thats what I hear in here. So am I right or wrong?
do you even listen to what is being discussed? why do you think people are calling you out. it is one things to say unbelieving jews are antichrist, and unbelieving muslims are antichrist, etc etc etc. But all we hear is about a nation of people. and how they are all sinners,
which I do not even know why we are discussing then, because it has already been shown that Isreal would not be restored until AFTER they repent and STOP becoming antichrist, yet you all keep using the same old argument, They are antichrist. How can God give them something when they deny him??
NO ONE EVER SAID HE WOULD. SO WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP??
and you wonder why people keep getting so upset!
E
Prove it, Show me where I have EVER said unbelieving jews who deny christ are not antichrist.
there you go again making false accusations!
You do not listen do you.
You (and your brother and sister) are the one who says, Jews are antichrist.
When you were confronted, YOU used the example of Jesus calling out a select group of people
I proved YOU WERE WRONG by using that to excuse your calling out a whole nation (you keep calling them jews)
and you still try to twist it and say I said Jesus is the one saying it.
again, do you ever read or think?? or just glance and post when you do not even understand what is being said.
This Nation of course;
(Mat 21:43)
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(Luk 1:54)
He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
(Luk 1:55)
As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
What part of this Nation don't you understand?
(Mat 21:43)
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(Luk 1:54)
He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
(Luk 1:55)
As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
What part of this Nation don't you understand?
One could argue that the promise that Abraham would be the father of a great nation was fulfilled while the Israelites multiplied in Eypt:
Deut 26:5 you shall make this response before the LORD your God: "A wandering Aramean was my ancestor; he went down into Egypt and lived there as an alien, few in number, and there he became a great nation, mighty and populous.
In fact, when the Israelites sinned, God tells Moses that he and his descendants would take their place:
Ex 32:10 Now let me alone, so that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them; and of you I will make a great nation."
The contrast is clear. Israel was a "great nation" and God was rather angry and wanted to replace them with Moses and his descendants.
In any case, one could argue that Israel fulfilled the promise of being a great nation while they were in Egypt.
Additionally, 1st century Jews understood the promises of Abraham to include promises to the entire earth. They understood the promises to Abraham to include an inheritance of and blessings on the entire world. Abraham was to be the father of many nations (Gen 17), not just one. They believed the promises were not limited in scope to an ethnic group to occupy a small tract of land.
Deut 26:5 you shall make this response before the LORD your God: "A wandering Aramean was my ancestor; he went down into Egypt and lived there as an alien, few in number, and there he became a great nation, mighty and populous.
In fact, when the Israelites sinned, God tells Moses that he and his descendants would take their place:
Ex 32:10 Now let me alone, so that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them; and of you I will make a great nation."
The contrast is clear. Israel was a "great nation" and God was rather angry and wanted to replace them with Moses and his descendants.
In any case, one could argue that Israel fulfilled the promise of being a great nation while they were in Egypt.
Additionally, 1st century Jews understood the promises of Abraham to include promises to the entire earth. They understood the promises to Abraham to include an inheritance of and blessings on the entire world. Abraham was to be the father of many nations (Gen 17), not just one. They believed the promises were not limited in scope to an ethnic group to occupy a small tract of land.
E
1. This says A GREAT NATION.. Enough said.
2. Later he said many nations (different topic. He never said whoever blesses or curses the nations)
3. God said specifically.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years.
this is the ONLY part that was fulfilled in Egypt. But this is not all of it, So those who say God fulfilled it in egypt are wrong. for God adds this.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
The promise is most definately way past egypt.. But God does not even stop here.
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
and oh by the way, How long was this promise to last? Just in case anyone was wondering?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. [SUP]5 [/SUP]No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
everlasting gift. Unless eternity has stopped or the land is no longer there, then no one can deny this must till be in effect. or God lied.
also, Here, for the first time, the plural word is used. Many nations came from abraham, God kept his promise as they did, And also notice, the promise of blessing and cursing was not given for all these nations, It was given in the past, only for A NATION.
2. Later he said many nations (different topic. He never said whoever blesses or curses the nations)
3. God said specifically.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years.
this is the ONLY part that was fulfilled in Egypt. But this is not all of it, So those who say God fulfilled it in egypt are wrong. for God adds this.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
The promise is most definately way past egypt.. But God does not even stop here.
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
and oh by the way, How long was this promise to last? Just in case anyone was wondering?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. [SUP]5 [/SUP]No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
everlasting gift. Unless eternity has stopped or the land is no longer there, then no one can deny this must till be in effect. or God lied.
also, Here, for the first time, the plural word is used. Many nations came from abraham, God kept his promise as they did, And also notice, the promise of blessing and cursing was not given for all these nations, It was given in the past, only for A NATION.
V
Romans 9:6-8 - But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: ‘Through Isaac your descendants will be named.’ That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
The answer is not found by human logic. It is found in the new creation which has risen with Jesus Christ from the dead.
Romans 3:9-10 - What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, ‘There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God.’
It's not about a theology but a witness to the reality of Jesus Christ. It was God’s doing and not some right as flesh-born sons.
Romans 9:23 - And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
The answer is not found by human logic. It is found in the new creation which has risen with Jesus Christ from the dead.
Romans 3:9-10 - What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, ‘There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God.’
It's not about a theology but a witness to the reality of Jesus Christ. It was God’s doing and not some right as flesh-born sons.
Romans 9:23 - And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
Again you avoided what I plainly said. I did NOT say Abraham was not made a great nation. And again what I plainly said was where when God said I will bless those that bless you He was taking TO ISRAEL? He was talking to ABRAHAM NOT ISRAEL. It is FORCING the text to say that it's talking about Israel being the one being blessed and NOT ABRAHAM. Do you actually read what is being said or do you like winging things for your own agenda?
E
yep, he did take it from that nation (which proves I was right) and gave it to the church (many nations)
But it does not mean he will not give it back. In fact romans 11 says he will.
so whats your point?
Paul says in romans 11 that NATION is to be loved because of the promise (even though they are hated because of the gospel)
why would a nation, who is is rejecting the gospel still to be loved because of the promises? Are yuo showing them love? It is one thing to call people out for teaching a false gospel. I would be there with you. But this hate of all things, and saying their gift (what is the property of their fathers) is no longer valid is to call God a liar. And makes paul to be unknowing,
But it does not mean he will not give it back. In fact romans 11 says he will.
so whats your point?
Paul says in romans 11 that NATION is to be loved because of the promise (even though they are hated because of the gospel)
why would a nation, who is is rejecting the gospel still to be loved because of the promises? Are yuo showing them love? It is one thing to call people out for teaching a false gospel. I would be there with you. But this hate of all things, and saying their gift (what is the property of their fathers) is no longer valid is to call God a liar. And makes paul to be unknowing,
Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Mathew
36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.…
Mathew
36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.…
I believe the real Jews, still hold this promise with God. They our Gods chosen, and will be forgiven on the return of Jesus. Does this consist of all the Jews in Israel now ? I don't think so, maybe a fourth of them. We do not know every individual's heart or their lineage in Israel God does. We should pray for all of them to repent.
K
Did you not note the "" around the word Christians? In Heb.I believe it talks about the Jews being blinded for a time until the "fullness of the Gentiles" or the Gentiles that will accept Christ,when that time is done the blinders will be taken off and the Jews will recognize Christ as this Messiah. Some teach some will be saved,some think all will be saved.Still looking into that question myself.