Done Away?
- Thread starter Hizikyah
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so you contend it is OK to make the law void??? the scripture says Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
If accepted on the New Covenant terms of accepting! That in itself proves the finality of fulfillment of the law, the last requirement met by Jesus.
The old law is of the letter. The Law of life and liberty reaches past that to the heart. There's a huge difference, in that the old law can't change the heart through love. It depends on obedience to the letter. The New Covenant works by love, loving God and neighbor and self not because of being commanded to, but the inner man falls in love with God. Letter or spirit.
I think a major cause of confusion between the two covenants is many folks have yet to read through the New Testament like a novel. Straight through. That's how the reader discovers more commandments than in the Pentateuch. What is little known is the basis of the New Covenant commandments. The old was ratified by the blood of animals, while the New Covenant in Christ was ratified with Jesus' own blood.
The moral code of the New Covenant is not based on curses, but instruction for righteous living on the basis of agape love, not letter of law.
The old law is of the letter. The Law of life and liberty reaches past that to the heart. There's a huge difference, in that the old law can't change the heart through love. It depends on obedience to the letter. The New Covenant works by love, loving God and neighbor and self not because of being commanded to, but the inner man falls in love with God. Letter or spirit.
I think a major cause of confusion between the two covenants is many folks have yet to read through the New Testament like a novel. Straight through. That's how the reader discovers more commandments than in the Pentateuch. What is little known is the basis of the New Covenant commandments. The old was ratified by the blood of animals, while the New Covenant in Christ was ratified with Jesus' own blood.
The moral code of the New Covenant is not based on curses, but instruction for righteous living on the basis of agape love, not letter of law.
It was about Matt 5 and if everything mentioned has been completed or not, have all prophecies about Messiah been fulfilled, has heaven and earth passed away and have all things been perfected.
Since He said nothing would pass from the Law unless these happened, I think its clearly a natural and right connection.
Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Since He said nothing would pass from the Law unless these happened, I think its clearly a natural and right connection.
Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
I think that's necessary to help deal with the confusion over Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
What Jesus didn't say at that moment was that he would in fact be fulfilling the law at the cross. What is left of the law of Moses that Jesus didn't bring to completion for the first time since it was given to Moses? Peter said the fathers coouldn't do it, neither could those present in Acts 15.
There is a difference between the law and the prophets. The law laid down commandments calling for curses if not obeyed to the slightest part of the letter of it. That's what kept enmity between the Jews and God. The Gentiles were and remained at enmity with God without having the law.
The prophets largely had to do with the warnings to Israel of judgment in exile for not keeping the law. They ignored the prophets more than they did the commandments. Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies of the coming Messiah, and has yet to fulfill the last days prophecies of him. Those distinctions must be kept separate for decent exegesis.
So now in these last days some keep coming with admonitions to keep the old law, even though the Jews couldn't do it, nor can any Christian keep the letter of the law. Christians are accounted worthy through faith in the works of Christ alone by the grace of God, keeping the law of life and liberty in Christ by "escort" of the Holy Spirit in us.
An apple doesn't make an apple tree an apple tree. The tree produces apples. It gives evidence of the identity of the tree.
The fruit of the spirit, doing the things the New Covenant discusses are good things to do, is proof we are in Christ and he knows us. Doing those things to be in Christ doesn't earn entrance into Christ. Faith does that. Then comes the fruit.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
What Jesus didn't say at that moment was that he would in fact be fulfilling the law at the cross. What is left of the law of Moses that Jesus didn't bring to completion for the first time since it was given to Moses? Peter said the fathers coouldn't do it, neither could those present in Acts 15.
There is a difference between the law and the prophets. The law laid down commandments calling for curses if not obeyed to the slightest part of the letter of it. That's what kept enmity between the Jews and God. The Gentiles were and remained at enmity with God without having the law.
The prophets largely had to do with the warnings to Israel of judgment in exile for not keeping the law. They ignored the prophets more than they did the commandments. Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies of the coming Messiah, and has yet to fulfill the last days prophecies of him. Those distinctions must be kept separate for decent exegesis.
So now in these last days some keep coming with admonitions to keep the old law, even though the Jews couldn't do it, nor can any Christian keep the letter of the law. Christians are accounted worthy through faith in the works of Christ alone by the grace of God, keeping the law of life and liberty in Christ by "escort" of the Holy Spirit in us.
An apple doesn't make an apple tree an apple tree. The tree produces apples. It gives evidence of the identity of the tree.
The fruit of the spirit, doing the things the New Covenant discusses are good things to do, is proof we are in Christ and he knows us. Doing those things to be in Christ doesn't earn entrance into Christ. Faith does that. Then comes the fruit.
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Unless heaven and earth passes away
Did heaven and earth pass?
Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Did heaven and earth pass?
Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
I noticed you failed to answer the questions I asked.
Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?
Now I'll ask you one more. Can a person cause their own self to grow these fruit of the Spirit by their obedience to the Law?
Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?
Now I'll ask you one more. Can a person cause their own self to grow these fruit of the Spirit by their obedience to the Law?
I think that is an unfair question...you know no one can....to begin with no one is advocating obedience to the law as a means of righteousness....obedience to the spirit cannot be accomplished without doing things that are contained in the law...and the law has not been destroyed....since it is what unbelievers will be judged by.....a believers mind must be renewed to do in the body the things that are pleasing to God...so with the mind we serve the Spirit of God(peace ,love ,joy,goodness,mercy) and the body does that which is contained in the law...(don't steal,covet,murder...ect)
Im sorry I did not answer, I thought it was like a so simple question that I didnt need to answer, foolish of me to think that.
Every fruit of the Spirit is Lawful and promoted in Yahweh;s Law.
Every fruit of the flesh is sinful and forbidden in Yahweh;s Law.
NO NONE CAN CAUSE THEMSELVES TO GROW IN YAH'S FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, I never hinted at this, but I do understand that people get this idea because preaching obedience to Yah's Instructions is "radical"(not being funny I really believe this)
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
John 6:63, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Romans 8:13, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of Yahweh, they are the sons of Yahweh!"
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Galatians 5:18, "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
If you are lead by the Spirit you will not do anything in oppisition to the Law.
When you are driving as long as you go beloew the speed limit you will have no negative consequence (ticket) while yet having the benefit of being safe because you are driving the proper speed on a particular road.
The Spirit and the Law say the EXACT SAME THING.
this is the next verse:
Galatians 5:19, "For the works of the flesh are obvious, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, evil jealousies, rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies; sects or factions of division, Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I warn you beforehand, just as I did in times past, that those who practice such things will not einherit the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Every single one of these is forbidden in Yahweh's Law, aka in oppisition to the Spirit and in oppisition to the Law.
Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering; patience, kindness, righteousness, The Faith; Meekness; gentleness, humility, temperance; self-control--such things are not against any Law."
Every single one of the is promoted and in the Spirit of Yahweh's Law, after all it was the Spirit of Yahweh that gave His Law, how could they possibly be in oppisition? Now do you undersand why Shaul said?, "such things are not against any Law."
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that agives life; the flesh is useless. The Instructions that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
Mattithyah 12:31, "Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy against men will be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven to men!"
Every fruit of the Spirit is Lawful and promoted in Yahweh;s Law.
Every fruit of the flesh is sinful and forbidden in Yahweh;s Law.
NO NONE CAN CAUSE THEMSELVES TO GROW IN YAH'S FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, I never hinted at this, but I do understand that people get this idea because preaching obedience to Yah's Instructions is "radical"(not being funny I really believe this)
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
John 6:63, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Romans 8:13, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of Yahweh, they are the sons of Yahweh!"
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Galatians 5:18, "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
If you are lead by the Spirit you will not do anything in oppisition to the Law.
When you are driving as long as you go beloew the speed limit you will have no negative consequence (ticket) while yet having the benefit of being safe because you are driving the proper speed on a particular road.
The Spirit and the Law say the EXACT SAME THING.
this is the next verse:
Galatians 5:19, "For the works of the flesh are obvious, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, evil jealousies, rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies; sects or factions of division, Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I warn you beforehand, just as I did in times past, that those who practice such things will not einherit the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Every single one of these is forbidden in Yahweh's Law, aka in oppisition to the Spirit and in oppisition to the Law.
Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering; patience, kindness, righteousness, The Faith; Meekness; gentleness, humility, temperance; self-control--such things are not against any Law."
Every single one of the is promoted and in the Spirit of Yahweh's Law, after all it was the Spirit of Yahweh that gave His Law, how could they possibly be in oppisition? Now do you undersand why Shaul said?, "such things are not against any Law."
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that agives life; the flesh is useless. The Instructions that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
Mattithyah 12:31, "Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy against men will be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven to men!"
Yes the law is done away with. We are, and are called such sinners because we continue to build upon what we already know to be destroyed. Why does a man steal, or covet? Why does a man kill or bear false witness?
No no child is born with neither capacity or the knowledge to carry out such functions, and thus in this, no man is our enemy as we do not battle flesh and blood. It is then the principalities and spiritual wickedness that is the cause and the root of why a man may do what is perceived to be "evil".
We have a growing epidemic in America between the police and the people they are to enforce policy on, but neither the people not the police are to blame if we indeed battle not flesh and blood. It is then the environment that both were brought into that is ruled by these principalities that must be fought!
A boy shoots another over shoes. One is dead and the other is labeled a murderer for the rest of his life. The irony of this is that the shoes, being lifeless is the root cause of both losing their lives! Did it have to be this way? Both boys had no knowledge of these shoes before they were born, but shaped by the environment they grew up in, they placed value in the shoe, of which sits 1000's of in stores or warehouses.
But as the scripture says, we have taken the truth of God, and replaced it for a lie and worship and served the creature, more than the creator who is blessed forever more!
Now, who made the shoe that one boy died from and another murdered for? Surely we have power over the shoes, don't we?
No no child is born with neither capacity or the knowledge to carry out such functions, and thus in this, no man is our enemy as we do not battle flesh and blood. It is then the principalities and spiritual wickedness that is the cause and the root of why a man may do what is perceived to be "evil".
We have a growing epidemic in America between the police and the people they are to enforce policy on, but neither the people not the police are to blame if we indeed battle not flesh and blood. It is then the environment that both were brought into that is ruled by these principalities that must be fought!
A boy shoots another over shoes. One is dead and the other is labeled a murderer for the rest of his life. The irony of this is that the shoes, being lifeless is the root cause of both losing their lives! Did it have to be this way? Both boys had no knowledge of these shoes before they were born, but shaped by the environment they grew up in, they placed value in the shoe, of which sits 1000's of in stores or warehouses.
But as the scripture says, we have taken the truth of God, and replaced it for a lie and worship and served the creature, more than the creator who is blessed forever more!
Now, who made the shoe that one boy died from and another murdered for? Surely we have power over the shoes, don't we?
Again, what makes a man steal or cover today, seeing as whatever or is that is stolen or coveted is in abundant supply? And God never wrote "traffic laws". We drive on the right side of the street or stop when the light is red because those are good common sense rules of driving to minimize accidents. But to believe that one needs a license to do what was already lawful to do is not needed.
Those commandments being to love God, being demonstrated by loving your neighbor. That is all. EVERYTHING else is done away with as Christ who rules and makes all things new, gives us all what we ask for in abundant supply.
Again I ask, what makes a man steal or covet in a world that has ample supply of all?
Again I ask, what makes a man steal or covet in a world that has ample supply of all?