The deification of man.

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8

84Niner

Guest
#1
Jesus is divine, and Jesus is God incarnate. Thus, can we not also say by virtue of that, that man is also becoming deified through his union with Christ. Are not we (believers).. born of God? If we are truly one spirit with God/Christ is it too much to say...we are part of God? There are numerous verses that point us to this conclusion, yet I have also heard from many believers that man cannot become...God. Agree? Disagree? Comments?
 
D

didymos

Guest
#2
I smell a gnostic
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#3
Is that worse than a liar?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#4
We actually must decrease, to make place for Jesus.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#5
The increase of his government
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#6
We are reborn as God's children but to even think for a second that because of this we can become God is foolish which I know is not what you said i am using that as an example for my point. Then if you have one who says because we are born again because his spirit indwells in us and because we can become like him are we not then a part of him. the thing is even though we have been adopted into his family we are still human still sinful and still in the end just vessels. we can do nothing on our own and apart from his help not godly in any way. humans sadly are weak compared to angels or even demons we can't do anything on our own without God just like a child who constantly needs his fathers help to do stuff.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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#8
What was the bait satan used to get Eve to eat the apple?

You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. [SUP]5 [/SUP]“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil Gen 3:4&5
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
766
113
39
Australia
#9
We are one with God but we are not God, never will we be, nor can be, nor do I personally want to be (get blamed for too much) How can the creation be the creator?
I think satan also tried this and failed miserably.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#10
Can a servant be above his MASTER...It is enough that a servant be as his MASTER..........

Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
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#11
We are one with God but we are not God, never will we be, nor can be, nor do I personally want to be (get blamed for too much) How can the creation be the creator?
I think satan also tried this and failed miserably.
AMEN to that mate........!
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
766
113
39
Australia
#12
Can a servant be above his MASTER...It is enough that a servant be as his MASTER..........

Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
Ahh yes very well put.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
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0
#13
I would suggest one word sums up the issue "love".
We are to become one with God, and his nature. We are still created beings, limited, but he gives us his authority to exercise His will. So you cannot divide this communion, but also it does not make us the source of authority or power.
Theologians have argued as everything is a creation of God, you could say it is part of God himself. The buddists take this to an extreme and suggest we pour our consciousness back into the pool and disappear.
The NAR make us into little gods who can exercise our will seperate from our creator, thinking his words capture and control him, like a prison.
All these concepts fail to understand communion and shared desire and purpose. Love listens to all, and takes things into consideration. So we will never be God is the basis of choice, power and authority, but we will be part of the glorious Kingdom where we are one with Him.
 
T

the_last_gunslinger

Guest
#14
The Deification of Man. It's a touchy subject because of the perceived notion that to become deified ourselves somehow robs God of his sovereignty and rule. But I don't think that's necessarily the case. One can still be 'defied,' and remain subject to God. It all comes down to how you define deification or 'godhood,' and what the next life holds in store for us. I believe that a case may be made for the deification of man in the Bible.

Romans 8:17 speaks of us as heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, and that we will be glorified with Christ. An heir inherits something from his parents. What does God have? Perfect wisdom, knowledge, power and authority. If we are heirs of God, it would seem that we would inherit these traits. 2nd Peter 1:4 says that we will be made a partaker of the divine nature. Mathew 25:23 gives us the promise that our faithfulness over a few things will grant us ruler over many things. And Revelation 3:21 promises he that overcomes the privilege of sitting on Christ's throne, even as Christ sits on God's throne.

To sum up these four scriptures, we are told we are an heir of God, who will partake of his divine nature, will be given dominion over many things while sitting upon God's throne. It's an interesting concept to say the least, and I don't think the deification of man is totally ruled out, though Man will always be subject unto God.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#15
Could be WoF too. They teach 'little gods'.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,886
13,205
113
#16
The Deification of Man. It's a touchy subject because of the perceived notion that to become deified ourselves somehow robs God of his sovereignty and rule. But I don't think that's necessarily the case. One can still be 'defied,' and remain subject to God. It all comes down to how you define deification or 'godhood,' and what the next life holds in store for us. I believe that a case may be made for the deification of man in the Bible.

Romans 8:17 speaks of us as heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, and that we will be glorified with Christ. An heir inherits something from his parents. What does God have? Perfect wisdom, knowledge, power and authority. If we are heirs of God, it would seem that we would inherit these traits. 2nd Peter 1:4 says that we will be made a partaker of the divine nature. Mathew 25:23 gives us the promise that our faithfulness over a few things will grant us ruler over many things. And Revelation 3:21 promises he that overcomes the privilege of sitting on Christ's throne, even as Christ sits on God's throne.

To sum up these four scriptures, we are told we are an heir of God, who will partake of his divine nature, will be given dominion over many things while sitting upon God's throne. It's an interesting concept to say the least, and I don't think the deification of man is totally ruled out, though Man will always be subject unto God.
you misunderstand "deity" , because you do not understand that God is one, because you have been deceived by false teachers who tell you that there are many gods.

this appeals to human vanity and is bait for your pride. it is exactly as posted above - the first temptation of man; the serpent said "you will be like god"

unless we cast our crowns at His feet, we have no part in Him. a body with many heads is not a man, not the likeness of God - it is a monster. we are one in Him only that we have but one head - Christ.
 
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the_last_gunslinger

Guest
#17
you misunderstand "deity" , because you do not understand that God is one, because you have been deceived by false teachers who tell you that there are many gods.


I think it is you who misunderstands MY viewpoint. I DO believe there is but One God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. But, I am not a Trinitarian. I do not believe their oneness is of substance or essence, for I have seen very little biblical evidence to support this idea. Their oneness is one of purpose, will and mind. They are united in all things and are One in that they each possess the qualities that make them God.

I am not relying on the words of so-called false teachers. I used as a source only the Holy Bible which speaks of us being heirs of God, being made rules who possess a divine nature, and who are permitted to sit on God's throne. I'm not saying deification is the only possible interpretation of these verses, only that it oughtn't be dismissed out of hand merely because of the erroneous assumption that it would somehow usurp God's Divinity. God will always be God and we will always be subject unto him. Even if deification is true, we will never supplant or draw equal with God. There will always be One God.
 
8

84Niner

Guest
#18
Well, it seems I have stirred the pot a bit. It also would appear that people are implying I am saying things that I really didn't say. Such as this quote: "Can a servant be above his MASTER...It is enough that a servant be as his MASTER..." I never said that man could be or ever would be above God. Here's another one: "how can the creation, be the creator?" I never implied that man would become another creator. I'm now going to list some basic biblical principles backed up by scripture that I would like readers to carefully digest before shooting this concept down based on previous christian concepts or traditions.

First of all in the very beginning in Genesis we see how God created all the creatures. With the fish, the birds, the cattle, etc.. God created them according to their own kind. But when God created man He didn't use this format. When it came to man He created man in the image and likeness of...God. We also can see in scripture that man is likened to a "vessel". In that garden in Eden there were two significant trees. One was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the other was the tree of Life. Of course man was deceived by Satan into partaking of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. "Knowing" what God knows, is completely different than possessing and being filled with Gods very Life, represented by the "Tree of Life".

Another point to consider taking into account is that we know Jesus is God. Jesus the Godman goes on to say "I Am the Life" (Jn 14:6), and in Jn 6:57 Jesus tells us "....he who eats Me shall live because Me". So, we see in the above that we not only are made in Gods image and likeness, but also thru Christ we are to take in Gods very life, which is also supported by 2Pet 1:4 where it states we have become "partakers of the divine nature". By virtue of becoming born of God in spirit, and becoming partakers of His divine nature we are deemed "members of His body". Ephesians 1:23 states regarding the church "Which is His Body, the fullness of the One who fills all in all". Further in Eph. 4:15 we read "But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the head Christ." It's significant in these passages as well as others that it distinguishes between the "head, Christ" and the "members of His body." As members of His body we will never share in the "Godhead", however we do share in His life and nature. One replier to my first comment stated that even though we have been born again we are still just "human and just sinners" as if to say we will always be the same. I wholeheartedly disagree. If one reads the book of Ephesians and other books of bible we will see that we have become born again NOT to stay the same, but to grow in Gods life that we could become filled completely with His Life ultimately to fully express the divine Life.

Getting back to the body, do not the members of the body share the exact same life flow as the head? If not, how could it be called the body? If someone reaches out and touches my hand, are they touching my hand or are they touching me? The answer of course is...YES. Acts 17:29 says that "....we are Gods offspring". Do not offspring and/or children share the same life and nature as the source? John 15:5 says "I am the vine, you are the branches...." Are not the branches of the vine...part of the vine? John 12:24 goes on to say ".....unless a grain of wheat (referring to Jesus) falls into the ground and dies it abides alone, but if it dies it produces much fruit". The much fruit is simply the expansion of the one grain that fell into the earth. The fruit of the grain cannot be something other and different than the grain that it came from. 1Cor 6:17 says "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit."

There is much more I could say on this but I will end it with this thought. We became born again (of God) with His very Life. Christ became the life giving spirit (1Cor 15:45) to get into man so that man could live the Godly living not by rules and regulation, but by His very Life. The divine Life. Any other attempt to live a Godly living other than by His life is an exercise in vanity. Only Gods life can truly express and live out the genuine Godly living. Once again we will never share in the Godhead itself, but yes, we will express God in life and nature as members of His body. And I'll say it once again, the body is attached to the head. The head without the body cannot have proper expression, and the body without the head is without function and headship. As members of His body we are in a "growing transformation process". This is revealed in scripture. One day we too will be fully glorified. In that day, there will be a divine wedding. Man, the redeemed church, His bride, will have been prepared to become fully one with Christ/God. The principle of a marriage is that the two, become..one. Would God join Himself in marriage to a bride that doesn't perfectly match Him? Is not the bride deemed a perfect counterpart to the groom?

These passages shout out to us believers that we are indeed becoming...God. This is the main goal of God bringing Himself into man (Jesus), so that man could be brought into God. I am NOT saying that we are becoming more gods. I am NOT saying that we are becoming anything separate and/or distinct from God. There is only one God and always will be. Nevertheless, we must conclude after taking into account the true revelation in the scriptures concerning mans relationship to God in His life that we are indeed not only just partakers of the divine nature, but we are growing into the divine nature.
 
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maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,495
2,563
113
#19
I think it is you who misunderstands MY viewpoint. I DO believe there is but One God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. But, I am not a Trinitarian. I do not believe their oneness is of substance or essence, for I have seen very little biblical evidence to support this idea. Their oneness is one of purpose, will and mind. They are united in all things and are One in that they each possess the qualities that make them God.

[/FONT]I am not relying on the words of so-called false teachers. I used as a source only the Holy Bible which speaks of us being heirs of God, being made rules who possess a divine nature, and who are permitted to sit on God's throne. I'm not saying deification is the only possible interpretation of these verses, only that it oughtn't be dismissed out of hand merely because of the erroneous assumption that it would somehow usurp God's Divinity. God will always be God and we will always be subject unto him. Even if deification is true, we will never supplant or draw equal with God. There will always be One God.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Seriously... this is COMPLETELY disingenuous.

The Mormon church has ALWAYS taught there are many Gods,
and the God they worship, and refer to as "god", is just the particular God over our planet or region in the universe.

If you want to PRETEND I'm making this up,
then I'll start citing all the passages from Mormon literature.



BTW...
I told you guys that in his opening post, in his opening thread, his first day...
that if you read between the lines, and listen closely...
he ADMITTED he was here to debate theology and do Mormon apologetics,
even though he denied it.

When I said these things, lots of people got mad at me.
And yet... here is... doing what he's doing.
 
8

84Niner

Guest
#20
Exactly. The members of Hid body are just that. They share His life and nature but as the body are completely subjected to His headship and do not assume any part of the Godhead, nor do they diminish the glory of the Godhead. (See my second post.)