All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

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weakness

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#21
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

You know, I have wondered something myself, and only because I am disabled, was both born with scoliosis in my back but I was also injured in my youth along with other degenerate back/disk/nerve issues (which quite a few here seem to have as well.) I dont have a church to go to myself, if I did when I first moved down here I have wondered if the believers at whichever one I was able to connect with would ever visit me, I cant say though. Like, would these come out (to me) and do it freely without some ulterior motive?

Would they just want my stuff?

And after I gave them all my stuff would they take me into their home?

I highly doubt that for some reason.

Well, you know what I mean, the lame or disabled in Jesus days were fetched and brought near to him by those who actually had faith (carried in and lowered through roofs and all) and His apostles had power.

Nowadays a five minute trip in an air conditioned car might be asking too much, but I dont know.

There will always be those who volunteer to do for others and there will always be those who try to manipulate their stuff from others, like devouring widows houses and preying upon others by always eyeballing peoples possessions.

Which can come off as rather Judas- like but under the pretense of

John 12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

John 12:6
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.


[/QUOTE I lived in Ar. I also have a very disabilitating ailment, unable to walk over 25 feet, can't drive, ect. I was of the mind that God was useing me to test others that take his name, to see if they would manifest his love through the Holy Spirit in them. Hundreds of " christians "new of my condition. Only one person ,saved or not ,I don't know, gave me some dishes. What does this say or scream about the love of God??? It says to me that none of those who shewed no compassion or unity of the body of CHRIST, are not really born again. If you love not your brother who can see , how can you love God who you can't see? If you can't be faithful with this worlds goods , how can you be trusted with true riches? D-con ,why do you equate living in the forest in a hole, ar on drugs, with having things in common? There is no relationship to me except in a twisted mind. I lived in semi communal situationsand what really brought them down was that they little by little were deceived by the modern Church that slowly sucked the first love out of them and preasured them to conform to the false church and it's wicked ways. I am not saying that all christians meeting together are wicked,so don't go there. But what i've said is true and is truth whether you believe it or not. People are selfish and decieved ,a veil is upon their hearts and the prince of this world has blinded their eyes. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh ,the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is of the devil.like Jesus said to the religious of his time.your father is the devil for he lied from the beginning as also you do. This is the word for our time,for darkness shall cover the earth and GROSS darkness the people. And there shall be a great falling away before the Lord returns. The world already is fallen, this speaks of those who take the Lords name in vain, and call themselves by his name. I on't know how many warnings the lord will give. As in the days of Noah, and what man among you if you had known what hour the thief would come, would have secured his house?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#22
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

If you are going to hate (not seek to follow) this portion of scripture...you might as well confess that you hate Jesus example.

Acts 4:31-33Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

31*And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

32*And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
The NT does not exhort us to hold things in common, but rather to be generous with what we have.

Let's not be holier than God's word.

33*And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Thank God for Him not requiring as much of those who have been given little by the grace of God...cause I believe if we were given much...most would be dead like...

Acts 5:2-5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2*and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3*But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4*Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5*And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

However...I believe many are spiritually dead in what we call the "church"...and most actually.

Romans 8:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4*that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5*For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6*For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

I might as well include this next scripture to help you realize if in fact you hate (do not like to follow) all of Jesus.

1 John 3:16-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

16*Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17*But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18*My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
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#23
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

The NT does not exhort us to hold things in common, but rather to be generous with what we have.

Let's not be holier than God's word.
I cannot even presume to know how you came to that conclusion...unless you have not read the NT.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
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#24
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

The NT does not exhort us to hold things in common, but rather to be generous with what we have.

Let's not be holier than God's word.
Perhaps I should ask...why would you not want to? You must claim to own something of this world?

Galatians 6:13-15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

13*For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14*But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15*For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#25
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Perhaps I should ask...why would you not want to? You must claim to own something of this world?
And I would ask what makes you think it is better to own in common than to own privately?

Where does the NT counsel to own possessions in common?

Yours is simply a personal opinion with no Biblical basis.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#26
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.



I lived in Ar. I also have a very disabilitating ailment, unable to walk over 25 feet, can't drive, ect. I was of the mind that God was useing me to test others that take his name, to see if they would manifest his love through the Holy Spirit in them. Hundreds of " christians "new of my condition. Only one person ,saved or not ,I don't know, gave me some dishes. What does this say or scream about the love of God??? It says to me that none of those who shewed no compassion or unity of the body of CHRIST, are not really born again. If you love not your brother who can see , how can you love God who you can't see? If you can't be faithful with this worlds goods , how can you be trusted with true riches?
You know, I wrote on this very thing before and this after looking into Paul speaking about his instruction (in respects to) being either full or in need and that for sake of equal opportunity (with one another) and fruit abounding to our account in well doing. And this along with how it tied in Jesus (appearing as a stranger) who others actually saw (with their natural eyes) Him as one sick (as we might see Him in Paul for example) and with their own eyes (and who also had an infirmity) and how he was received. As luck would have it in Pauls case they did not reject him but received as an angel of God, even as Christ himself. Even as Jesus said, what you did or did not do unto the least of these (which were his brethren) came in manners that were sick, or in prison (or such as Paul was). For example when he was being held it says, no man was forbidden of ministering to his needs and there came those who cared for his soul and did so. Theres a bunch of integrated examples.

Just going off the top of my head but this study was so deep too. And I recall at that point being so excited to do for others (became zealous) like what can I do (and joyfully so) as others might have lacked (and our own abundance could bring equality in such a time for them). I believe there was only one church (Paul said) that shared in this who giving and receiving thing, or were the first or something?

But yeah I do know what you are pointing out here (I didnt immediately catch it though) and now you can also discern when someone is just ripping a few verses out of context to get folks to do (for their own cause) because there is "a stranger" element to it and reccognition of things after the flesh on one level alone (but also who it is you are doing for after the Spirit) is what I have found (and in brief) I think people will be surprised what they did (and unto whom they did it or did not) on that day thats for sure.

So yes, when I was reading about Paul's instruction more and more came to me (and started dawning on me) through reflecting on the same. He was instructed to be BOTH FULL (and often for the purpose giving him an opportunity TO DO for others in obedience to him and love for the brethren as an example to others) even as he (as we might be also) instructed to be IN NEED also. And in the latter it would invite a response in another towards Paul (or to whomever) in those things as might be needed (or necessary) out of what one has (not out of what one does not). And there is where the testing of the genuininess of others "professed faith" would be. Because thats where John points it out, in the shutting up of ones bowels of affections when seeing them in need,and thats where the love of God is pointed out as lacking in an individual who doesnt respond to seeing their brother or sister in the same (while having it to do.

Just about, anyone can love in tongue I suppose. And yet thats not altogether true, we can attest that we love God, or express devotion to God but rubber meets that road through how you love your brother, and when you see his need and your heart is not the slightest bit moved to do anything (in deed) when you actually can. And that is also where our love for God is evidenced. Its in deed (and in truth) towards the brethren and not just in word and in tongue alone (which is hard enough for us half the time. But I am speaking of "which say" (but do not). Its right there in the opening up or the shutting of ones own bowels of compassion towards the brethren in need in Jesus Christ.

Theres alot on this one. I recall getting all upset over my inability (to do) for someone once (pacing back and forth over it) praying about the matter, coming up short as to what to do, whereas he made it so clear that wasnt for me at that time.

He just showed me something else this week on the same, almost like repeating my lesson to me. Which was in short (in all my fretting) to consider which side of things I was on (in reality). And I took a deep breath and thought, sometimes I forget, and get caught up in my circular logic in respects to my own ability, but I have the most helpful husband I am glad for.

Do where your able and out of what you have (not out of what you dont) and if you can do nothing more just pray (his house would be called a house of prayer).

I agree, Jesus, and Paul do show others are tested in these very things,

"when saw we thee"...

And they would see (just not perceive him) even in these things

He that receives YOU receives ME. Just as He that sanctifies and they "which are" sanctifed (are all of one) and its these he is not ashamed to call brethren. Just as he said what you had done (or did not do) unto the least of these my brethren you did (or did not) unto me and because they are all of one (Spirit). He knows them that are His, any man without the Spirit of Christ is none of His.

Theres some really awesome stuff in this study though.

Our God is just so great.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
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#27
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

And I would ask what makes you think it is better to own in common than to own privately?

Where does the NT counsel to own possessions in common?

Yours is simply a personal opinion with no Biblical basis.
The stuff need not change hands...and can stay private...but it should not be treated as separate from the commonwealth.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#28
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

in the hebrew language, possibly(it has been reported, not verified and never disproved for me), there was no way to claim "this is mine" ,.... i.e. because all things including one's body, and mind, and talents / abilities/ and all possessions including land and houses,

were all considered to belong to yahweh.

this is seen all through scripture --- and when something is 'owned' it is more like stewarded/ cared for temporarily and all honor and use and ability and credit goes to and belongs with

yahweh himself. no credit nor acclaim for the flesh, the worldly, the carnal, the greedy or any kind of selfish ambition........

even dreams and the interpretation thereof belong to yahweh alone, not to man/men/prophets/joseph/daniel/ etc .....

and all wisdom and knowledge and understanding.....

as well as everything material.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#29
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

You may have a hard time believing that moses went 40 without food and water...and Jesus walked on water then?
Romans 8:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4*that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5*For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6*For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

God does not lie...and there is truly only one needful thing (luke 10:38-42)
First of all I do believe that Moses and Jesus went 40 days without food and Jesus and Peter walked on water.....You are not Jesus, Moses and or Peter.....and to say you don't need AIR to live is just plain ludicrous.....and on top of that food and water is needed to sustain life.....each case you cited was for a specific purpose and applied individually.....so.........!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#30
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

The stuff need not change hands...and can stay private...but it should not be treated as separate from the commonwealth.
That is not NT teaching, that is your teaching.

"Do not go beyond what is written." 1Co 4:6
 
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weakness

Guest
#31
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

I am terribly sorry I forgot about a christian I met here, he helps me all the time . He refuses payment ,and thanks me for an opportunity to serve the lord. We both aren't perfect but we can talk about the Lord and encourage each other. To me this is the Holy Spirit fitting the body together in the Lord. Praise to the true and only By whom are all things, for whom are all things , and of whom are all things Amen
 
W

weakness

Guest
#32
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Yes, today if you here his voice, I hear every word you ,through the Spirit, have written. Praise God for his Glorious Gift! I think The lord and the Father can be summed up in the word,what you have done unto the least of these you have done unto Me. How Good God is! And so plane it is as to those who are born of God and hear his voice.A blessing to read what so have spoken. I added something to what I wrote earlier,a welcome addition I hope. May God truly keep us in our hour of temptation, which is also coming on the whole earth, Experience, Hope, and Hope makes us not ashamed for the love of God in shed about in our hearts.And let all men see the mystery of Christ, which God for ordained all things in Christ. bless you with all spiritual blessings in Christ.
 
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weakness

Guest
#33
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

As you already know, Gods judgement of A, and his wife was not for not selling what he had and giving, it was for lying, in that they lied about what they had sold the land for! God loves a cheerful giver!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#34
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

in the hebrew language, possibly(it has been reported, not verified and never disproved for me), there was no way to claim "this is mine" ,....
This is not Israel, and Rome and Greece were not Israel.

The NT does not teach Gentiles to follow the ways of Israel.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#35
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

I am terribly sorry I forgot about a christian I met here, he helps me all the time . He refuses payment ,and thanks me for an opportunity to serve the lord. We both aren't perfect but we can talk about the Lord and encourage each other. To me this is the Holy Spirit fitting the body together in the Lord. Praise to the true and only By whom are all things, for whom are all things , and of whom are all things Amen
And that is the NT model, holding all things in common is not NT teaching.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
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#36
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

And that is the NT model, holding all things in common is not NT teaching.
Tell me then...what is the commonwealth? Or would you like me to explain it to you?
Do I need to paste the scripture again? Which is talking to gentilrs in the NT? Or perhaps I should expound on why Paul by The Holy Ghost wrote such an encouragement to prove the sincerity of their love.

Also...what are the negative aspects of such a practice? Please do not say poverty according to the flesh...cause it's not ours if we have been crucified unto the world and the world crucified unto us. Pure religion...remember?
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#37
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Tell me then...what is the commonwealth? Or would you like me to explain it to you? Do I need to paste the scripture again?
I would appreciate a "re-paste.". I don't want to go searching through this thread to find it, but I'd be interested in seeing what Scripture you believes teaches socialism. The Puritans formed a commonwealth, but was it biblical? I don't think so.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
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#38
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Ephesians 2:11-13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11*Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12*that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13*but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#39
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Tell me then...what is the commonwealth? Or would you like me to explain it to you?
Do I need to paste the scripture again? Which is talking to gentilrs in the NT? Or perhaps I should expound on why Paul by The Holy Ghost wrote such an encouragement to prove the sincerity of their love.

Also...what are the negative aspects of such a practice?
Addition of man's notions to Biblical teaching is always a subtraction from it.

So what are the negative aspects of not doing so?
Why are you so adamant that this be added to the NT as a Christian doctrine?
Why not each one decide for himself between his conscience and God?

Please do not say poverty according to the flesh...cause it's not ours if we have been crucified unto the world and the world crucified unto us. Pure religion...remember?
The NT does not state that pure religion is holding all things in common.

Nor does it state that we do not have earthly ownership of our worldly possessions.

And the Courthouse agrees.

However, the NT is clear what our possessions are to mean to us, and how we are to use them.
That should be sufficient for us.

"Do not go beyond what is written" (1Co 4:6) into man-made religion.
 
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Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
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38
#40
Re: All Things Common Ignored by "your church"? Better keep looking for His then.

Addition of man's notions to Biblical teaching is always a subtraction from it.

So what are the negative aspects of not doing so?
Why are you so adamant that this be added to the NT as a Christian doctrine?
Why not each one decide for himself between his conscience and God?


The NT does not state that pure religion is holding all things in common.

Nor does it state that we do not have earthly ownership of our worldly possessions.

And the Courthouse agrees.

However, the NT is clear what our possessions are to mean to us, and how we are to use them.
That should be sufficient for us.

"Do not go beyond what is written" (1Co 4:6) into man-made religion.
Excuses.
The commonwealth is no doubt a NT teaching...and is a practice which produces more fruitfulness, and spreads the example of pure religion to more.

James 1:26-27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

26*If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27*Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.