The Transfiguration on the Mount and the New Covenant vs. Old Covenant

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sparkman

Guest
#1
I read something today in a book concerning the New Covenant that was excellent and I wanted to share it. I am also sharing this on a facebook page I have so it's doing double duty.

The Transfiguration reinforces the concept that Christians must consider Jesus to be our authority and not the Old Covenant.

Luke 9: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, [SUP]31 [/SUP]who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[SUP][a][/SUP] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. [SUP]34 [/SUP]As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One;[SUP][b][/SUP] listen to him!”[SUP]36 [/SUP]And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.

Christ appeared with Moses and Elijah in the vision. Moses symbolized the Law, and Elijah symbolized the Prophets.

For those who are not so familiar, the Law includes the first five books of Scripture that Moses wrote. The Prophets include the major and minor prophets. In general, the Law was the Old Covenant agreement that God made with ancient Israel through Moses, and the Prophets recorded the words of the prophets who God used to correct ancient Israel for their transgressions against the covenant.

Peter wants to build tents for the three important persons in the vision; Jesus, Moses, and Elijah. Subconsciously, Peter was placing them all on the same level in his mind in terms of authority.

In the vision, God the Father proclaims mightily, This is my Son, My Chosen one; listen to him! And then Jesus alone was left...Moses and Elijah disappeared.

What is the meaning of this vision? Jesus continually emphasized that he was the authority, not the Old Covenant law. He did this with the Sermon on the Mount, where he modified and changed elements of the Old Covenant (his phrase "but I say to you" emphasizes his authority). He did this when he confronted the Pharisees on numerous occasions concerning their legalism over the Sabbath.

Throughout his ministry, you will find Jesus Christ consistently trying to move the relative frame of reference from the Old Covenant to Himself.

I am wondering how many of those who focus on the Old Covenant really take Jesus as their authority figure. Do they acknowledge the commandments below? How many of their sermons focus on these Scriptures rather than the Sabbath, clean and unclean meat laws, and the festivals? Do they claim obedience to these words of Christ as loudly as they boast of their obedience to God on ceremonial and ritualistic elements of the Old Covenant?

Jn 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love one for another.

Jn 14;15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments

Jn 14:21 he who has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose Myself to Him.

Jn 15:10-12 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love..This is my commandment, that you love one another, just as I loved you.

John 15:14 You are My friends, if you do what I command you.

John 15:17 This I command you, that you love one another.

I Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one aother, just as He commanded us.

I John 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

If you want to know what love is, read the "one another" statements of Scripture. Love is outgoing, sacrificial concern for others. God's moral law definitely applies to Christians today, but love goes beyond morality. Morality is just common decency. Even unbelievers acknowledge moral absolutes for the most part, unless they are in heavy deception.

I know that in my former church, Jesus Christ definitely occupied the back burner. Sure, he was pulled out on the Holy Days for some point here and there, but in reality he was not honored amongst them. In fact, they hate to even say his name.

By the way, the New Testament was written in Greek, and his name was Iesus (there was no J in their alphabet), so there's nothing wrong with saying "Jesus". In my legalistic church, they commonly said "Christ" and not "Jesus", and implied that the name of Jesus was a sickeningly sweet "Protestant" way of referring to him. I sometimes wonder if the Holy Names mentality involves the same feeling of superiority that we had in that regard.

If I don't answer soon to replies, don't be surprised. I am taking a break from here but am commenting occasionally on things I read. I will read replies later on when I return.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#2
The book is Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. I read an earlier version of it and am re-reading it in a later version that has much more material.
 
P

purgedconscience

Guest
#3
Here is what Peter wrote in relation to the Transfiguration that you just mentioned and he personally witnessed:

2 Peter chapter 1 verses 16 thru 21

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost
.


Peter saw Christ transfigured, heard the Father's voice from heaven declaring that Jesus is His beloved Son and saw and heard Moses and Elijah and yet he said that we have something more sure than all of what he personally saw and heard and that is that which is contained in the Old Testament prophets in relation to Jesus Christ. Yes, Peter understood that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and recorded such Holy Ghost inspired words for us in their writings and that we, as Christians, ought to take heed unto the same as unto a light that shines in a dark place until the day dawns and the day star, a reference to Jesus Christ, the light of the world and the Sun of righteousness, arises in our hearts. Was Peter suggesting that Christ somehow replaced the Old Testament writings? No. Peter understood that the Old Testament writings were all about Christ, even as Jesus said Himself, so we need not discard them.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#4
Hi sparkman, you are probably going to think this is weird, but as a young person
i had an amazing encounter with God. I posted the details in my testimony in
the testimony forum if you are interested - posted around April 2015.

http://christianchat.com/testimonie...ildless-father-who-discovered-father-god.html

I started to have Godly dreams. In one of them I dreamed I was
outside in the garden playing with a skipping rope and Jesus was with me
watching me.

I looked up at him and told him I loved him. He smiled at me then he started to
sort of glow gradually getting brighter and brighter until his whole
body was just enveloped in a brilliant white light, so much so that the only
feature left was a vague outline of his smiling face.

Then the brilliance of the light obscured that also and I was looking at an
overwhelming brilliant light. Then I woke up.

As I child in Sunday school I had heard the story of the transfiguration and i
honestly believed I had seen this in the dream. In fact I thought everyone must
have had a dream like this and knew what the transfiguration looked like!

It was weird when I realised only I had this dream!

It was so clear and amazing that even after all these years I can still remember
the details. I was stood on the garden path.


I am sure you are right when you refer to the demonstration of Jesus having the
authority etc. I believe that God was saying hear him as in look to Jesus now.

From a personal perspective and based on the dream I had as a child, I believe
Jesus was showing that he was fully man, but he was not limited by an earthly
body.

He can come and be with us at any time and spend time with us. He wants to spend
time with us and he does so, in the spirit.

He is powerful, has all authority, is omnipotent, but he still wants a relationship
with us!

I believe the transfiguration also confirms there is another realm which we cannot
go to in our earthly bodies, but which we will see one day - heaven/hell etc.

I think for the Christian this is a great comfort, we will go where Jesus is and enjoy him
forever!

People ask for a sign for evidence of the after life, if ever there is one it is this
incident.

Isnt God amazing!
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#5
Here is what Peter wrote in relation to the Transfiguration that you just mentioned and he personally witnessed:

2 Peter chapter 1 verses 16 thru 21

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost
.


Peter saw Christ transfigured, heard the Father's voice from heaven declaring that Jesus is His beloved Son and saw and heard Moses and Elijah and yet he said that we have something more sure than all of what he personally saw and heard and that is that which is contained in the Old Testament prophets in relation to Jesus Christ. Yes, Peter understood that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and recorded such Holy Ghost inspired words for us in their writings and that we, as Christians, ought to take heed unto the same as unto a light that shines in a dark place until the day dawns and the day star, a reference to Jesus Christ, the light of the world and the Sun of righteousness, arises in our hearts. Was Peter suggesting that Christ somehow replaced the Old Testament writings? No. Peter understood that the Old Testament writings were all about Christ, even as Jesus said Himself, so we need not discard them.
Discarding the OT is a straw man.
 
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flob

Guest
#6
yes amazing




I think for the Christian this is a great comfort, we will go where Jesus is and enjoy him
forever!
I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself...
If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him...
You Father are in Me and I in you, that they also may be in Us
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#7
Jesus=Iesous (in Greek) prounounced 'I-sueze'
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#8
yes amazing

I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself...
If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him...
You Father are in Me and I in you, that they also may be in Us
We will share in Jesus' inheritance, including the glory he had before he came to earth.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
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#9
A Mount Sinai, the children of Israel could not bear to hear GOD's voice, and begged Moses to speak to them instead.

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. Exodus 20:18-19

Before crossing over Jordan into Canaan, GOD promised Israel he would send them another prophet from among their kin who would speak his words like Moses did, instead of GOD speaking to them directly.

The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:15-19

Then when that prophet finally came, GOD spoke directly to the three pillars of the church (James, Peter and John) on another mount to tell them that this was the promised prophet whom they were to listen to.

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. Matthew 17:1-8
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,057
262
83
#10
Something to think about......

Was Jesus transfigured to be in the disciples' presence, or were the disciples transfigured to be in Jesus' presence?
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#11
the disciples were NEVER trans-figured... they didn't even understand the Vision...
because Christ told them, 'Tell no man of the vision'...another words, you don't
understand what is going on, so you certainly can't go out and teach it...

this is similar - MARK 8:29-30, 'He said to them, but who do you say that I am?
Peter answered and said to Him, You are The Christ", then He strictly warned them
that they should tell no one about Him'...
another words, they didn't understand the full ramifications of the Resurrection or the Kingdom Prophecy
in MATT.17. - you cannot teach what you don't understand.,,

I can receive a Vision, but understanding is NOT guaranteed... in our experience, the understanding
comes after years of Spiritual Growth...and if the vision is agreeable with the scripture,
then it IS a Vision from God....
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#12
It is written that the crowds were utterly astonished when they saw Christ descending from the mount after he was transfigured. This sounds like when Moses descended from Mt Sinai after meeting with GOD and had to put a vail over his face because it shone.

And immediately the whole crowd, when they saw him, were amazed, and ran up to him and greeted him. Mark 9:15

Amazed

G1568 ἐκθαμβέω ekthambeo (ek-tham-beh'-o) v.
1. to astonish utterly
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
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#13
I've noticed a pattern in scripture that when certain men had an extraordinary experience with GOD, the very next thing to hit them was great discouragement.

When Elijah had the great victory over the prophets of Baal, basically saving Israel, he was subsequently so discouraged by Jezebel's threat to take his life that he fled and asked GOD to take his life.

When Abraham had his remarkable encounter with GOD on Mount Moriah in which GOD swore by himself to make his seed as the dust of the earth and the stars of heaven, he returned home with his only son to be confronted with reports that his relatives were dropping babies like ripe fruit on an autumn day.

So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor; Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram, And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel. And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother. And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah. Genesis 22:19-24

When Jesus descended the mount after being transfigured and declared the prophet that GOD said he would send to Israel, he was confronted by the unbelief of his disciples, and got really bent out of shape about it.

And one individual from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought to you my son who has a spirit that makes him mute. And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down and he foams at the mouth and grinds his teeth and becomes paralyzed. And I told your disciples that they should expel it, and they were not able to do so. And he answered them and said, “O unbelieving generation! How long will I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him to me!” Mark 9:17-19
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,057
262
83
#14
I've noticed a pattern in scripture that when certain men had an extraordinary experience with GOD, the very next thing to hit them was great discouragement.

When Elijah had the great victory over the prophets of Baal, basically saving Israel, he was subsequently so discouraged by Jezebel's threat to take his life that he fled and asked GOD to take his life.

When Abraham had his remarkable encounter with GOD on Mount Moriah in which GOD swore by himself to make his seed as the dust of the earth and the stars of heaven, he returned home with his only son to be confronted with reports that his relatives were dropping babies like ripe fruit on an autumn day.
So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor; Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram, And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel. And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother. And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah. Genesis 22:19-24

When Jesus descended the mount after being transfigured and declared the prophet that GOD said he would send to Israel, he was confronted by the unbelief of his disciples, and got really bent out of shape about it.
And one individual from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought to you my son who has a spirit that makes him mute. And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down and he foams at the mouth and grinds his teeth and becomes paralyzed. And I told your disciples that they should expel it, and they were not able to do so. And he answered them and said, “O unbelieving generation! How long will I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him to me!” Mark 9:17-19
I don't know about you, but I've dealt with same struggles in my life a time or 2.