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Sabbath and Torah Observers will often refer to Matthew 5:17-19 to claim that their pet elements of the Old Covenant (usually the weekly Sabbath, annual festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws) are still binding.
However, their reasoning is futile, and is refuted by a careful reading of the Scripture.
Matthew 5:17-19 [SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Notice the portion that I underlined. The reasoning is clear. Not one single jot or one tittle will pass from the law until all be fulfilled.
They will use these verses to "prove" that certain elements of the Old Covenant apply, but they ignore the part NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE. Either it all applies, or none of it applies. Take the time to meditate on these Scriptures and to absorb the logic of this argument.
We know that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are no longer applicable, so neither is the entire law. One would have to deny Acts, Hebrews, and the writings of Paul in order to assert that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are applicable.
It's an all or none proposition. Either all has been fulfilled, or it hasn't been fulfilled. If all has been fulfilled, then the entire law has been fulfilled and is no longer applicable. If it hasn't been fulfilled, then the entire law is applicable. This means that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are still applicable, and the author of Hebrews, Paul and Luke were uninspired or liars.
I believe these Scriptures:
John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.”A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,”and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Note how in these three verses, it is clearly demonstrated that ALL WAS FINISHED that the Scriptures were fulfilled in these events. The phrase "Law and Prophets" relates to the Scriptures...there are three major divisions in the Old Covenant Scriptures...the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms or Writings. This phrase Law and Prophets is a common phrase used in the New Testament to refer to the Scriptures themselves (Matt 7:12, 22:40, Luke 16:16, 24:44, John 1:45, Acts 13:53, Romans 3:21)
In addition, physical circumcision was required in order to enter into the Old Covenant. Paul said that if you are circumcised for religious purposes, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:1-4). So, no one can enter into the Old Covenant anyways. The Sabbath was a sign of the Old Covenant, which was an agreement between God and the ancient nation of Israel. Christians are not bound by the Old Covenant under the New Covenant.
The Old Covenant contained spiritual and moral principles that can guide the Spirit led Christian, but the specific applications given to the nation of Israel are not applicable. Israel was a carnal nation, and God dealt with them in this context. They were like children; they needed to be told every fine detail about how to worship God. Christians are spirit-led and are not children. Gentile Christians were able to bypass the Old Covenant and go directly to worshipping God through the New Covenant, which did not require the detailed applications given to the ancient nation of Israel. Read Galatians 3 and 4 in regards to these points. In fact, read the whole book of Galatians.
So, in summary, if Sabbath and Torah observers want to use these Scriptures to prove their doctrine is correct, they must acknowledge that there are only two choices: either all has been fulfilled, and the law is no longer applicable, or it hasn't been completely fulfilled, and every jot and tittle still applies. There is no third option.
If every jot and tittle still applies, then they need to be doing it all exactly as the Old Covenant specifies, weekly Sabbath, annual Sabbaths, clean and unclean meat laws, physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, putting your wives and daughters out of the home during their menstrual cycle, and not wearing clothing of mixed fibers. EVERY JOT AND TITTLE. There is NO exception. You are not allowed to modify these observances whatsoever. Don't claim that part of it applies and the rest doesn't if you are going to use these verses to support your point.
The reality is that when Christ spoke these words, he was speaking to Jews who were under the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant ended at the moment of his death. The temple veil ripped and it was no longer applicable. It was a long time before the church realized in full what happened in that event....Acts 15 records that the issue of the Law of Moses came up several years later...about AD50, as more and more Gentiles were added. So, this was almost 20 years after Christ died.
In addition, Jewish Christians continued to observe the Sabbath and festivals because of cultural reasons. Read Acts 21 and you will see that they were even practicing physical circumcision, but that they did not require it of Gentiles. So, any reference to a Jewish Christian observing such things is irrelevant, as they continued to observe elements of the Old Covenant as a cultural preference.
Every assertion that a Sabbathkeeper can make in this regard has a clear explanation. I challenge any of them, except prove-all, who constantly re-posts Armstrongite teachings verbatim and claims he is going to be a God just like God the Father and Jesus Christ in the resurrection (I don't talk to blasphemers) , to provide convincing, articulate proofs that the Sabbath or festivals still apply to New Covenant Christians. Every argument of theirs can be refuted.
See the following Scriptures to prove that the Old Covenant is no longer applicable to New Covenant believers: Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3 and 4, and Ephesians 2:13-15.
In regards to the Sabbath and festivals, see Colossians 2:16-17, comparing it with Hebrews 10:1-2 and Hebrews 9:9-11. Look at Leviticus 23:37 in regards to food and drink offerings to prove that they were part of the Old Covenant. Notice that Hebrews 9:11 says that these things applied only until Christ appeared as our high priest. Colossians 2:16-17 groups the Sabbath and annual festivals with new moons and food and drink offerings, which are not applicable, and calls them shadows whose substance, or reality, was Christ. We have the real thing, so we don't need the shadows.
What really challenges the claims of these groups are the clean/unclean meat laws, though. Mark 7:14-19 and Romans 14:14-20 clearly states that there are no unclean foods, and that nothing that a person eats defiles him. Almost all of these groups hold onto clean/unclean meat laws in addition to Sabbaths and festivals.
Present clear points without rambling and I will respond. I throw down the gauntlet and am open to all takers
It is preferable if you present one assertion per post and not multiple assertions so that the responses don't take a long time to create.
I was a Sabbath/festival observer for 10 years so I know their arguments, and the counter-arguments.
However, their reasoning is futile, and is refuted by a careful reading of the Scripture.
Matthew 5:17-19 [SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Notice the portion that I underlined. The reasoning is clear. Not one single jot or one tittle will pass from the law until all be fulfilled.
They will use these verses to "prove" that certain elements of the Old Covenant apply, but they ignore the part NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE. Either it all applies, or none of it applies. Take the time to meditate on these Scriptures and to absorb the logic of this argument.
We know that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are no longer applicable, so neither is the entire law. One would have to deny Acts, Hebrews, and the writings of Paul in order to assert that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are applicable.
It's an all or none proposition. Either all has been fulfilled, or it hasn't been fulfilled. If all has been fulfilled, then the entire law has been fulfilled and is no longer applicable. If it hasn't been fulfilled, then the entire law is applicable. This means that physical circumcision and animal sacrifices are still applicable, and the author of Hebrews, Paul and Luke were uninspired or liars.
I believe these Scriptures:
John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.”A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,”and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Note how in these three verses, it is clearly demonstrated that ALL WAS FINISHED that the Scriptures were fulfilled in these events. The phrase "Law and Prophets" relates to the Scriptures...there are three major divisions in the Old Covenant Scriptures...the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms or Writings. This phrase Law and Prophets is a common phrase used in the New Testament to refer to the Scriptures themselves (Matt 7:12, 22:40, Luke 16:16, 24:44, John 1:45, Acts 13:53, Romans 3:21)
In addition, physical circumcision was required in order to enter into the Old Covenant. Paul said that if you are circumcised for religious purposes, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:1-4). So, no one can enter into the Old Covenant anyways. The Sabbath was a sign of the Old Covenant, which was an agreement between God and the ancient nation of Israel. Christians are not bound by the Old Covenant under the New Covenant.
The Old Covenant contained spiritual and moral principles that can guide the Spirit led Christian, but the specific applications given to the nation of Israel are not applicable. Israel was a carnal nation, and God dealt with them in this context. They were like children; they needed to be told every fine detail about how to worship God. Christians are spirit-led and are not children. Gentile Christians were able to bypass the Old Covenant and go directly to worshipping God through the New Covenant, which did not require the detailed applications given to the ancient nation of Israel. Read Galatians 3 and 4 in regards to these points. In fact, read the whole book of Galatians.
So, in summary, if Sabbath and Torah observers want to use these Scriptures to prove their doctrine is correct, they must acknowledge that there are only two choices: either all has been fulfilled, and the law is no longer applicable, or it hasn't been completely fulfilled, and every jot and tittle still applies. There is no third option.
If every jot and tittle still applies, then they need to be doing it all exactly as the Old Covenant specifies, weekly Sabbath, annual Sabbaths, clean and unclean meat laws, physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, putting your wives and daughters out of the home during their menstrual cycle, and not wearing clothing of mixed fibers. EVERY JOT AND TITTLE. There is NO exception. You are not allowed to modify these observances whatsoever. Don't claim that part of it applies and the rest doesn't if you are going to use these verses to support your point.
The reality is that when Christ spoke these words, he was speaking to Jews who were under the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant ended at the moment of his death. The temple veil ripped and it was no longer applicable. It was a long time before the church realized in full what happened in that event....Acts 15 records that the issue of the Law of Moses came up several years later...about AD50, as more and more Gentiles were added. So, this was almost 20 years after Christ died.
In addition, Jewish Christians continued to observe the Sabbath and festivals because of cultural reasons. Read Acts 21 and you will see that they were even practicing physical circumcision, but that they did not require it of Gentiles. So, any reference to a Jewish Christian observing such things is irrelevant, as they continued to observe elements of the Old Covenant as a cultural preference.
Every assertion that a Sabbathkeeper can make in this regard has a clear explanation. I challenge any of them, except prove-all, who constantly re-posts Armstrongite teachings verbatim and claims he is going to be a God just like God the Father and Jesus Christ in the resurrection (I don't talk to blasphemers) , to provide convincing, articulate proofs that the Sabbath or festivals still apply to New Covenant Christians. Every argument of theirs can be refuted.
See the following Scriptures to prove that the Old Covenant is no longer applicable to New Covenant believers: Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3 and 4, and Ephesians 2:13-15.
In regards to the Sabbath and festivals, see Colossians 2:16-17, comparing it with Hebrews 10:1-2 and Hebrews 9:9-11. Look at Leviticus 23:37 in regards to food and drink offerings to prove that they were part of the Old Covenant. Notice that Hebrews 9:11 says that these things applied only until Christ appeared as our high priest. Colossians 2:16-17 groups the Sabbath and annual festivals with new moons and food and drink offerings, which are not applicable, and calls them shadows whose substance, or reality, was Christ. We have the real thing, so we don't need the shadows.
What really challenges the claims of these groups are the clean/unclean meat laws, though. Mark 7:14-19 and Romans 14:14-20 clearly states that there are no unclean foods, and that nothing that a person eats defiles him. Almost all of these groups hold onto clean/unclean meat laws in addition to Sabbaths and festivals.
Present clear points without rambling and I will respond. I throw down the gauntlet and am open to all takers
It is preferable if you present one assertion per post and not multiple assertions so that the responses don't take a long time to create. I was a Sabbath/festival observer for 10 years so I know their arguments, and the counter-arguments.
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