The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

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Sep 4, 2012
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#2
New.modern.hyper grace teachings are based on twisting scripture. Here's an example.

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

The word walk in this verse is a present active verb, which means it specifies an ongoing action.

However, new.modern.hyper grace twists the phrase "walk in the light" around to mean a state of being.

This falsehood allows new.modern.hyper grace teachers to create the image in people's minds that a believer can never walk in darkness because they are in the light. This allows for the blasphemous teaching that believers never need to seek forgiveness for walking in darkness, because they can never walk in the darkness.

But this is where the deception lies. Being in the light (a state of being) and walking in the light (an action) are conflated to mean the same thing. And this accomplished by twisting the meaning of the word walk (an action) to mean a state of being.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#3
Here's another example.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4

The word walk in this verse is a present active verb, which means it specifies an ongoing action.

However, new.modern.hyper grace twists the phrase "walk not after the flesh" around to mean a state of a person's being.

This falsehood allows new.modern.hyper grace teachers to create the image in people's minds that a believer can never walk in the flesh because they are in the spirit. This allows for the blasphemous teaching that believers never need to seek forgiveness for walking in the flesh, because they can never walk in the flesh.

But this is where the deception lies. Being in the flesh (a state of being) and walking in the flesh (an action) are conflated to mean the same thing. And this accomplished by twisting the meaning of the word walk (an action) to mean a state of being.
 
C

Complete_In_Him

Guest
#4
Hello,

What is new modern hyper grace, to you? As in, what do you group together/under this label.

And what are the doctrines you are refuting, better yet, to help me understand, because I have glanced at some of the threads/posts and nothing seems clear or sensible on either side, such as, the example or refutation.

Are you talking about the saint walking in newness of life?

And, are you talking about the mind of the saint being renewed day by day?
 
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Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
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#5
Hello,

What is new modern hyper grace, to you? As in, what do you group together/under this label.

And what are the doctrines you are refuting, better yet, to help me understand, because I have glanced at some of the threads/posts and nothing seems clear or sensible on either side, such as, the example or refutation.

Are you talking about the saint walking in newness of life?

And, are you talking about the mind of the saint being renewed day by day?
Right now I'm just exposing the deceitfulness of new.modern.hyper grace teachings.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#6
Right now I'm just exposing the deceitfulness of new.modern.hyper grace teachings.
I'm betting this only added to her confusion. Kind of ironic she states that nothing seems clear, and you respond by ignoring her questions and clarifying nothing she asked. Doubt that helped much.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#7
This isn't deceitful, but it is deception and falsehood.

New.modern.hyper grace teaches that it frees us from the presence of sin.

gracelicensetoovercomesin
 
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C

Complete_In_Him

Guest
#8
New.modern.hyper grace teaches that it frees us from the presence of sin.
I'm not so sure of that. Maybe, it's just your comprehension of what you think is being said. We all know being dead to sin, has nothing to do with our state in the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#9
I'm not so sure of that. Maybe, it's just your comprehension of what you think is being said. We all know being dead to sin, has nothing to do with our state in the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh.
Ryan Rufus wrote it.

"Grace doesn’t just free us from the punishment of sin, it also frees us from the presence and power of sin."
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
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#10
Hello,
I have glanced at some of the threads/posts and nothing seems clear or sensible on either side, such as, the example or refutation
This is where I'm at. There are so many of these threads and none seem to make much sense.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#11
I'm not so sure of that. Maybe, it's just your comprehension of what you think is being said. We all know being dead to sin, has nothing to do with our state in the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh.
The "hyper-grace" crowd seems to lean toward sinless perfectionism. I could be wrong, but that is what I gather from all the chaos.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#13
The "hyper-grace" crowd seems to lean toward sinless perfectionism. I could be wrong, but that is what I gather from all the chaos.
They believe in the sinless perfection of the spirit (which is true), but then only identify with it, and consider the old man to be non-existent. They don't believe that a person can be lost regardless of whatever deeds they do in the body. So basically, in terms of salvation sin is irrelevant to them. In this way their belief is identical with the gnostics. They give lip service to sin, but only in the context of what harm it can do to this life, and possibly to rewards in the next life.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#15
They believe in the sinless perfection of the spirit (which is true), but then only identify with it, and consider the old man to be non-existent. They don't believe that a person can be lost regardless of whatever deeds they do in the body. So basically, in terms of salvation sin is irrelevant to them. In this way their belief is identical with the gnostics. They give lip service to sin, but only in the context of what harm it can do to this life, and possibly to rewards in the next life.
This is mostly what I gathered. Complete denial of sin, even in the flesh.
 
C

Complete_In_Him

Guest
#16
Ryan Rufus wrote it.
"Grace doesn’t just free us from the punishment of sin, it also frees us from the presence and power of sin."

Oh, I see, excuse me and I apologize. Why didn't you just say "The Deceitfulness of Ryan Rufus", I would have never posted. But you use ambiguous terms in your posts and New.Modern.Hyper.Grace seems to be an all encompassing catch-all. I am a grace believer, Christian, bible believer, saved person, on and on with the labels, they mean nothing really.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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0
#17
That is not true...that is one of the "straw-man" that is put forth...

Is Grace a License to Sin?

Grace-preachers attract sinners and that is a good thing. If you are a sinner – you have come to the right place! Sinners are welcome in the House of Grace. I wish our churches were magnets for sinners for that would be a sure sign we were preaching the true gospel of grace.


If this scandalizes you then you may want to avert your eyes from the One called the Friend of Sinners. Jesus didn’t wait for sinners to come to Him; He literally went into their homes and got Himself invited to their parties. That’s because grace is for sinners. It is not for those who think they are basically good and decent people. As Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13).

So I suppose I should be thrilled that I get a lot of correspondence from sinners – and I am. What is less thrilling is the correspondence I get from saints who think they are sinners and who want me to validate their choice to act like sinners.

Why do saints act like sinners?

Some may do it out of ignorance (“I am holy? I didn’t know!”) or out of a fatal belief that they can live by law and call it grace (“I’m just trying to live by the red letters of Jesus”). But a saint who acts like a sinner is a hypocrite – they are acting like someone they are not.

In a recent post I dealt with five questions I typically hear from hot-blooded young men. But today I want to answer the biggest question of all…

Is grace a license to sin?

No. It is true that grace brings freedom and that includes the freedom to make poor choices, but if you use your freedom to enslave yourself to sin, then you have missed the point of grace:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal 5:1)

The purpose of grace is to liberate the prisoner and give life to the dead. Grace is also good news for the poor (Lk 4:18-19). So if you use grace to enslave or impoverish yourself by making dumb decisions and indulging the flesh, then you are setting aside grace. You are not using it for its intended purpose.

.Grace liberates, but if you use your freedom to discard your freedom, then what was the point? You are no better off than when you started.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Rom 5:20)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says “I can go on sinning so that grace may abound.” True, your sinning won’t affect God’s love for you, but it will surely affect you. It will enslave you and ultimately kill you. This is not God’s will for your life.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. (Rom 6:1)

Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself.

True, you can use electricity to electrocute yourself but God forbid that you would! That’s not what it’s for. God created electricity so you could enjoy light and warmth and ESPN’s SportsCenter. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

We need to see sin for what it really is. It is not some benign activity like making coffee or hitting free-throws down the stretch. As God warned Cain, Sin is a crouching beast that desires to master you. Running after Sin is about as smart as poking a pit-bull with a stick.

They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!

The apostle of grace wrote much about how sin enslaves and he wasn’t just talking about sinners: “You are slaves to the one whom you obey” (Rom 6:16). Now please understand I am drawing a big fat line between a saint who occasionally sins and a saint who runs after sin.

There is a big difference.

The former finds himself doing what he doesn’t want to do; the latter is doing exactly what he wants to do. If you are troubled when you sin, relax – your discomfort is actually a sign of the new nature and new desires within you. Your heart is to please the Lord. But if you are untroubled when you sin – perhaps because you think grace is a license to sin – then wake up and smell the coffee. Something is very wrong.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. (Tit 2:11-12)

I am aware that some use this scripture to promote behavior modification thus condemning those who are struggling to overcome sin. (If you are trying to overcome sin, check out the excellent links at the end of this post.) The point I want to make here is this: The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness. So any grace that isn’t teaching you to say “No” is counterfeit grace. Is grace a license to sin? Only if it is fake grace.

So why do I still sin?

I suspect there are two reasons. Either you don’t know who you really are and you are still running on the operating system you had when you followed the way of the world. Or you are an unbeliever. The grace that teaches us to say no only comes through faith. If you don’t believe you can say no then, guess what, you won’t. This is why it is imperative to declare what the Bible says is true about you.

If you are a Christian you are a new creation. The new has come and the old has gone. When you came to Christ you did not sign up for a program of life-long reform and self-improvement. That way lies disaster and disappointment. Christ is your life. Learn to allow Him to express His flawless, sinless life through your earthen vessel.

When you get up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and declare “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” When you’re about to click on a link that you should not click or when reaching for some substance that is killing you, say it again: “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” This is not the power of positive thinking. This is a frail human being tapping into the inexhaustible riches of His transforming grace through faith.

Have faith in God – His grace is powerful! It is the only thing on this earth that can give us freedom from sin and sinning. Live under the fountain of His grace and sin shall not be your master (Rom 6:14).


This is mostly what I gathered. Complete denial of sin, even in the flesh.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#18
Oh, I see, excuse me and I apologize. Why didn't you just say "The Deceitfulness of Ryan Rufus", I would have never posted. But you use ambiguous terms in your posts and New.Modern.Hyper.Grace seems to be an all encompassing catch-all. I am a grace believer, Christian, bible believer, saved person, on and on with the labels, they mean nothing really.
As far as I know, the term grace believer is the same as the encompassing term I use. I just couldn't figure out how to incorporate it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#19
Great quote...what does "being dead to sin", has nothing to do with our state in the flesh.. mean to you?..

I'm not so sure of that. Maybe, it's just your comprehension of what you think is being said. We all know being dead to sin, has nothing to do with our state in the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#20
That is not true...that is one of the "straw-man" that is put forth...

Is Grace a License to Sin?

Grace-preachers attract sinners and that is a good thing. If you are a sinner – you have come to the right place! Sinners are welcome in the House of Grace. I wish our churches were magnets for sinners for that would be a sure sign we were preaching the true gospel of grace.


If this scandalizes you then you may want to avert your eyes from the One called the Friend of Sinners. Jesus didn’t wait for sinners to come to Him; He literally went into their homes and got Himself invited to their parties. That’s because grace is for sinners. It is not for those who think they are basically good and decent people. As Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13).

So I suppose I should be thrilled that I get a lot of correspondence from sinners – and I am. What is less thrilling is the correspondence I get from saints who think they are sinners and who want me to validate their choice to act like sinners.

Why do saints act like sinners?

Some may do it out of ignorance (“I am holy? I didn’t know!”) or out of a fatal belief that they can live by law and call it grace (“I’m just trying to live by the red letters of Jesus”). But a saint who acts like a sinner is a hypocrite – they are acting like someone they are not.

In a recent post I dealt with five questions I typically hear from hot-blooded young men. But today I want to answer the biggest question of all…

Is grace a license to sin?

No. It is true that grace brings freedom and that includes the freedom to make poor choices, but if you use your freedom to enslave yourself to sin, then you have missed the point of grace:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal 5:1)

The purpose of grace is to liberate the prisoner and give life to the dead. Grace is also good news for the poor (Lk 4:18-19). So if you use grace to enslave or impoverish yourself by making dumb decisions and indulging the flesh, then you are setting aside grace. You are not using it for its intended purpose.

.Grace liberates, but if you use your freedom to discard your freedom, then what was the point? You are no better off than when you started.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Rom 5:20)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says “I can go on sinning so that grace may abound.” True, your sinning won’t affect God’s love for you, but it will surely affect you. It will enslave you and ultimately kill you. This is not God’s will for your life.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. (Rom 6:1)

Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself.

True, you can use electricity to electrocute yourself but God forbid that you would! That’s not what it’s for. God created electricity so you could enjoy light and warmth and ESPN’s SportsCenter. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

We need to see sin for what it really is. It is not some benign activity like making coffee or hitting free-throws down the stretch. As God warned Cain, Sin is a crouching beast that desires to master you. Running after Sin is about as smart as poking a pit-bull with a stick.

They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!

The apostle of grace wrote much about how sin enslaves and he wasn’t just talking about sinners: “You are slaves to the one whom you obey” (Rom 6:16). Now please understand I am drawing a big fat line between a saint who occasionally sins and a saint who runs after sin.

There is a big difference.

The former finds himself doing what he doesn’t want to do; the latter is doing exactly what he wants to do. If you are troubled when you sin, relax – your discomfort is actually a sign of the new nature and new desires within you. Your heart is to please the Lord. But if you are untroubled when you sin – perhaps because you think grace is a license to sin – then wake up and smell the coffee. Something is very wrong.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. (Tit 2:11-12)

I am aware that some use this scripture to promote behavior modification thus condemning those who are struggling to overcome sin. (If you are trying to overcome sin, check out the excellent links at the end of this post.) The point I want to make here is this: The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness. So any grace that isn’t teaching you to say “No” is counterfeit grace. Is grace a license to sin? Only if it is fake grace.

So why do I still sin?

I suspect there are two reasons. Either you don’t know who you really are and you are still running on the operating system you had when you followed the way of the world. Or you are an unbeliever. The grace that teaches us to say no only comes through faith. If you don’t believe you can say no then, guess what, you won’t. This is why it is imperative to declare what the Bible says is true about you.

If you are a Christian you are a new creation. The new has come and the old has gone. When you came to Christ you did not sign up for a program of life-long reform and self-improvement. That way lies disaster and disappointment. Christ is your life. Learn to allow Him to express His flawless, sinless life through your earthen vessel.

When you get up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and declare “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” When you’re about to click on a link that you should not click or when reaching for some substance that is killing you, say it again: “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” This is not the power of positive thinking. This is a frail human being tapping into the inexhaustible riches of His transforming grace through faith.

Have faith in God – His grace is powerful! It is the only thing on this earth that can give us freedom from sin and sinning. Live under the fountain of His grace and sin shall not be your master (Rom 6:14).
Hi Grace777. I agree with some of both sides. I know you guys aren't saying grace is a license to sin. But some on your side do come off as saying "I don't sin anymore and to say I do sin is a sin". That is sinless perfectionism and isn't biblical. It's a stumbling block for a lot of Christians, especially those weak in faith. It puts them back under law and they try to live up to the standard of perfection and it just breeds more sin in them.

I can agree with you on a less extreme point. That is, the more we focus on Christ, the more we are in the word, the more we identify with biblical teaching, the more we consume our minds with the word and prayer, the more we fellowship with one another, and so on, the less likely we are to sin.

Like I posted in one thread about this before, I think both sides are using extreme examples of one another. I don't think so many threads and arguments about it is clearing anything up for anyone but causing more confusion.