Grace is not a message - it's a person - Jesus
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I read the book Changes That Heal from Henry Cloud.
In this it has aliens who go to earth to find out what makes it tick so they could learn. They wanted to learn to worship God.
The alien they sent to find out about this told his leaders earth had two gods. One was grace the other truth.
So the aliens decided to have worship of the God of grace and worship seperately the God of truth.
People who went just after truth experienced only rules, regulations and judgment. People who went only after grace experienced no boundaries, no rules, and complete permission.
After a while of living like this the leaders reconvened to report on this. They had huge division and no real happiness.
They talked this over and one bright spark suggested they have One God, composed of grace and truth.
After this they instituted worship of the One true God.
JESUS!
Truth without grace- legalism. Grace without truth- chaos.
Now- the key thing is- someone can only serve God by His grace. They can follow Gods regulations only because the consequence of hell is not in the equation.
What?Are you only going to serve God if hell is the consequence for failure? That is not living free!
Gods commandments can only be followed by His grace empowering us.
Truth- God disciplines and rebukes waywardness. Grace- You are kept in relationship with Him by His power.
In this it has aliens who go to earth to find out what makes it tick so they could learn. They wanted to learn to worship God.
The alien they sent to find out about this told his leaders earth had two gods. One was grace the other truth.
So the aliens decided to have worship of the God of grace and worship seperately the God of truth.
People who went just after truth experienced only rules, regulations and judgment. People who went only after grace experienced no boundaries, no rules, and complete permission.
After a while of living like this the leaders reconvened to report on this. They had huge division and no real happiness.
They talked this over and one bright spark suggested they have One God, composed of grace and truth.
After this they instituted worship of the One true God.
JESUS!
Truth without grace- legalism. Grace without truth- chaos.
Now- the key thing is- someone can only serve God by His grace. They can follow Gods regulations only because the consequence of hell is not in the equation.
What?Are you only going to serve God if hell is the consequence for failure? That is not living free!
Gods commandments can only be followed by His grace empowering us.
Truth- God disciplines and rebukes waywardness. Grace- You are kept in relationship with Him by His power.
I agree to a lot...except there is no grace without truth..they are not separate things...in the original greek structure ..they are joined and held as "one unit" ....it's like the sentence ." To our God and Savior Jesus Christ"...there is no distinction between God and Jesus.
People using "grace" to live however they want are not under grace ( or truth ) at all because "sin shall not be master over you because you are not under law..but grace ".
It is impossible to have pure grace and not have truth. Grace "teaches" us to live uprightly in this present world. If people are living a sin--focused life they are not in grace. God's grace disciplines us.
To suggest that grace and truth are 2 different opposing things is wrong. They are the same thing ..Jesus ..just as you have said.
Unfortunately we are so busy just trying to defend the acceptance grace itself we hardly have time to talk about the other aspects of grace such as the discipline of the Lord which we all love...as it shows He loves us.
I do understand what you are saying brother....where people can say they are under "grace"..but they are not in reality...sometimes it is just growing pains in them..other times it's just outright self-centeredness ..other times it's that they have been deceived by the enemy.
All of the above groups need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ because in it is the power for salvation to everyone that believes.
Here is a funny skit about grace and truth..you might get a laugh out of...
[video=youtube;thpqXF04IkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thpqXF04IkY[/video]
People using "grace" to live however they want are not under grace ( or truth ) at all because "sin shall not be master over you because you are not under law..but grace ".
It is impossible to have pure grace and not have truth. Grace "teaches" us to live uprightly in this present world. If people are living a sin--focused life they are not in grace. God's grace disciplines us.
To suggest that grace and truth are 2 different opposing things is wrong. They are the same thing ..Jesus ..just as you have said.
Unfortunately we are so busy just trying to defend the acceptance grace itself we hardly have time to talk about the other aspects of grace such as the discipline of the Lord which we all love...as it shows He loves us.
I do understand what you are saying brother....where people can say they are under "grace"..but they are not in reality...sometimes it is just growing pains in them..other times it's just outright self-centeredness ..other times it's that they have been deceived by the enemy.
All of the above groups need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ because in it is the power for salvation to everyone that believes.
Here is a funny skit about grace and truth..you might get a laugh out of...
[video=youtube;thpqXF04IkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thpqXF04IkY[/video]
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Sometimes we can make grace seem like it's a separate part of Christ but it is really the essence of Jesus...There is no message of grace...there is only Jesus and His finished work for us ....grace is His life and character flowing from Him.
The "essence" of Jesus is God. Jesus IS God. Grace is bestowed BY GOD upon those who BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Now, one can say that "grace" is an attribute of God, as is love, righteousness, or even anger and wrath. But it seems to me that we can not reduce God the Son to act of forgiveness.
I fully agree that without Christ, grace will not be imparted to man, for His work on the Cross and burial and resurrection opened the windows of Heaven from which the grace of God flows.
(anyway, my thoughts)
The "essence" of Jesus is God. Jesus IS God. Grace is bestowed BY GOD upon those who BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Now, one can say that "grace" is an attribute of God, as is love, righteousness, or even anger and wrath. But it seems to me that we can not reduce God the Son to act of forgiveness.
I fully agree that without Christ, grace will not be imparted to man, for His work on the Cross and burial and resurrection opened the windows of Heaven from which the grace of God flows.
(anyway, my thoughts)
This touches on a problem I have with the OP title. Grace is an expression of love by GOD. I think it's a stretch to say that grace is GOD, and possibly a dangerous one. The gnostics believed that Christ was grace personified and their own special possession that could not be taken away from them because they were eternally united with it. They maligned Christians who viewed grace as the means of sanctification.
That said, I don't know who the teacher in the video was, and I didn't watch all of it, but what I did hear was very good. So I state this for the record that I don't disagree with everything new.modern.hyper grace teachers teach. It's just when they twist scripture to promote false ideas that my spirit gets riled.
That said, I don't know who the teacher in the video was, and I didn't watch all of it, but what I did hear was very good. So I state this for the record that I don't disagree with everything new.modern.hyper grace teachers teach. It's just when they twist scripture to promote false ideas that my spirit gets riled.
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There are 20 sub-topics of "G":
Gainsay, Gainsayer Galbanum Garlick Gat Gier Eagle Girding Girdle Glede Goodman Goodman of the House Governor Grace Graffed Graved Graven Graven Image Gravings Grisled Groves guwr: awe, abide
This is the only sub-topic of Grace:
Strong's Definitions of Grace
How can we know anything about anything? That's the real question[h=1]Bible Dictionary: Define Grace, Definition of Grace[/h]
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[h=3]Definition of Grace:[/h]
Grace, which is accessed only by faith, is the power of God by which He does righteousness through anyone who will yield to Him.
Grace is perhaps one of the most misunderstood words, along with faith, in the entire Bible. And it is one of the most important. Some people define grace as forgiveness. Some people define grace as good manners. Some people define grace as mercy. None of these are good definitions of grace. Grace is so much more than that. See also: charis (the power of God for His work)
The following is a quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_grace as of 12-18-2012:
"Grace in this context is something that is God-given, made possible only by Jesus Christ and none other. It is God's gift of salvation granted to sinners for their salvation. Common Christian teaching is that grace is unmerited mercy (favor) that God gave to humanity by sending his son to die on a cross, thus delivering eternal salvation. However, this definition alone may not cover all uses of the term in scripture. For example Luke 2:40 (King James Version) "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." In this example when using the definition of grace to mean unmerited favor it does not make sense that the sinless Christ would need this. Equally how can one fall short of grace (James 4:6) or meekness attract it and pride repel it (Galations 5:4) if it is unmerited. James Ryle has suggested "Grace is the empowering Presence of God enabling you to be who He created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do." Alternatively Bill Gothard has suggested "Grace gives us the desire and the power that God gives us to do his will."[1] Both of these definitions make good sense of the word grace throughout the Bible."
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
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[TD="width: 100%, bgcolor: white, align: left"] Home > Dictionary > G > Grace[/TD]
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There are 20 sub-topics of "G":
Gainsay, Gainsayer Galbanum Garlick Gat Gier Eagle Girding Girdle Glede Goodman Goodman of the House Governor Grace Graffed Graved Graven Graven Image Gravings Grisled Groves guwr: awe, abide
This is the only sub-topic of Grace:
Strong's Definitions of Grace
How can we know anything about anything? That's the real question[h=1]Bible Dictionary: Define Grace, Definition of Grace[/h]
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[h=3]Definition of Grace:[/h]
Grace, which is accessed only by faith, is the power of God by which He does righteousness through anyone who will yield to Him.
Grace is perhaps one of the most misunderstood words, along with faith, in the entire Bible. And it is one of the most important. Some people define grace as forgiveness. Some people define grace as good manners. Some people define grace as mercy. None of these are good definitions of grace. Grace is so much more than that. See also: charis (the power of God for His work)
- Grace is the only means by which any person can ever do any good works. It is faith that gives access to grace, and faith only comes by an utterance of God, that is, God must be leading and the person receiving faith must be in submission.
- Grace, in Greek, is the word, charis. In addition to charis, there is the word charismata, which is a word related to charis, but it is only used in reference to what have become known as the nine gifts of the Spirit, which are mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12.
The following is a quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_grace as of 12-18-2012:
"Grace in this context is something that is God-given, made possible only by Jesus Christ and none other. It is God's gift of salvation granted to sinners for their salvation. Common Christian teaching is that grace is unmerited mercy (favor) that God gave to humanity by sending his son to die on a cross, thus delivering eternal salvation. However, this definition alone may not cover all uses of the term in scripture. For example Luke 2:40 (King James Version) "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." In this example when using the definition of grace to mean unmerited favor it does not make sense that the sinless Christ would need this. Equally how can one fall short of grace (James 4:6) or meekness attract it and pride repel it (Galations 5:4) if it is unmerited. James Ryle has suggested "Grace is the empowering Presence of God enabling you to be who He created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do." Alternatively Bill Gothard has suggested "Grace gives us the desire and the power that God gives us to do his will."[1] Both of these definitions make good sense of the word grace throughout the Bible."
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
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That's exactly what the gnostics thought.
GOD the father's grace came through Christ. It is an expression of love.
...[the gnostics] run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them.
GOD the father's grace came through Christ. It is an expression of love.
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17
Well it's not "God is love, or God is grace", that they attack I think, and I really don't see them as "attacks" either. First those are attributes of God no question, and on a level we can't even comprehend, I think the opposition comes when it's suggested that God is ONLY love, or ONLY grace. He has more than those attributes, He is also Holy, and here's the big one, just. God is not ONLY just love alone, He is also justice and on a level we can't understand either. That mean no sin goes unpunished, so how does an infinitely just, and infinitely merciful and loving God not contradict Himself? That is the question Jesus and the cross answers, that is why people seem to "attack" when you say or suggest God is love (as in only) and Jesus is grace (as in only). To me Jesus is also truth, I honestly feel when you look up truth in the dictionary it should have Jesus as the definition, but He is still so much more than that as well. I want to know ALL of God that I can, not just the parts that I feel are the best.
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