Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

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FreeNChrist

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#21
All these quotes are about justification before the Lord.

We are called to walk in righteousness as slaves to it and not slaves to sin

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:16

The key issues here is obedience. Obedience, doing, following leads to righteousness, appropriate behaviour, doing the right thing.

The key problem in behaviour is behaviour creates understanding and justification as to why the behaviour is right.
We tend to do things and then justify them after the fact. So changed understanding does not lead to changed behaviour, but obedience does. You will understand these words if you actually do the things commanded in the sermon on the mount.

It is why those who are rebellion will never understand, because their thoughts are justifying their sinful behaviour.
A very convenient way of allowing yourself to continue to believe what you want to believe, biblical truth be damned.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#22
The religion of self-improvement defines righteousness in terms of keeping the rules " The commands in the bible are how we are to live for God"
Righteousness is having the heart of God, and because you do, you do righteous things.

The spirit speaking here is a spirit of rebellion and destruction against morality, saying morality does not matter.

Their accusation is people only behave righteously because they think they will earn there way to heaven.

The idea righteous behaviour is life itself, it is the flow of the Kingdom of heaven, it is what Jesus empowers us to be, has not crossed their minds.

People are so cynical and judgemental, even a good work done by a sinner is evil.

These people have no heart.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#23
The religion of self-improvement defines the work of God as rule keeping and good behavior, but Jesus said the work of God is " to believe in the One He has sent - John 6:29 ".
Your comment shows how unbiblical "grace" teaching really is.

​I am writing these [things] to you, hoping to come to you in a short time. But if I am delayed, [I am writing] in order that you may know how one must conduct oneself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and mainstay of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:14-15

Older women likewise [are to be] reverent in [their] behavior, not slanderous, not enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, Titus 2:3

And frankly, it contradicts what you said earlier about what the grace of GOD teaches.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:11-13
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#24
Righteousness is having the heart of God, and because you do, you do righteous things.

The spirit speaking here is a spirit of rebellion and destruction against morality, saying morality does not matter.

Their accusation is people only behave righteously because they think they will earn there way to heaven.

The idea righteous behaviour is life itself, it is the flow of the Kingdom of heaven, it is what Jesus empowers us to be, has not crossed their minds.

People are so cynical and judgemental, even a good work done by a sinner is evil.

These people have no heart.
That's all so very cynical and judgemental, not to mention just plain wrong. Ironic much?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#25
Am I righteous before the Lord? Yes in Christ, because I have believed on His Son and the cross has washed my sins away.

As the fruit of this exalted position I walk in righteousness and purity. Every child of God has this privilege.
People talk about perfection, but what they are actually talking about is failure. They cannot accept that Jesus regards us as whole and capable of walking appropriately.

This means not being sexually immoral, having a pure thought life, of loving those you meet, not stealing, lying, being violent or angry against others, being patient, kind, considerate, polite, helpful, a servant will to meet needs.

It is odd that people find this simple way of life so hard to do. They are saying they are a slave to breaking this daily, hourly. It staggers me how far they are fallen, and empty within. Do they even know Christ at all?

And what is the response? Oh you have lowered the bar of sin so low, you are in sin but do not admit it.

As I have said before, please tell me my sin and failure? If I do not break the commandments, and I love Christ and walk in the Spirit, how am I failing? It sounds to me you hate the righteous and those who walk in purity. Out of this hatred you condemnation and words come, because there is nothing else unless you know something I do not.

Now you say I must not stumble. No, look at everyone in scripture, it is a road of many challenges and stumbles, testing, learning, growth. If we do stumble, the Lord is faithful to forgive us and heal us if we confess our sins.

So what is stopping you? Because something inside you says no. But that is the spiritual problem and sin in your life. It is the rebellion against the sovereignty of the Lord and His law which condemns you as a sinner, from which you need to repent. You claim all this theology, but walking in Christs ways you have rejected.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#26
Your comment shows how unbiblical "grace" teaching really is.
​I am writing these [things] to you, hoping to come to you in a short time. But if I am delayed, [I am writing] in order that you may know how one must conduct oneself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and mainstay of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:14-15

Older women likewise [are to be] reverent in [their] behavior, not slanderous, not enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, Titus 2:3

And frankly, it contradicts what you said earlier about what the grace of GOD teaches.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:11-13
Funny. He quotes scripture that supports the very "grace teaching" he rails against to prove "it" is unbiblical. It just gets weirder and weirder.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#27
That we believe His life in us changes us. We believe grace teaches us how to live in this world.
The religion of self-improvement defines the work of God as rule keeping and good behavior, but Jesus said the work of God is " to believe in the One He has sent - John 6:29 ". [
You're so confused you don't know if you're coming or going...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
I was going to respond to this thread when it opened, But figured would not be worth it and hoped people would just let it die the death it deserved.

For the umpteenth time.

Peter bears false witness against us in many ways. One of the things he lies about is that we call him a legalist BECAUSE he preqches obedience.

Well thats a lie.

for the umpteenth time

A legalist is a person, who preaches that works are rrequired for one of the following.


1. To recieve salvation, Also known as grace plus works. Eternal life is not given until after we die. If we meet up to some standard.
2. To Keep salvation/not lose it, disguised to be faith alone, apart from works. But in reality, A works based gospel which teaches that if a person does not live in some way, Salvation, which was given at the moment of faith, can be lost. Or thrown away.


What legalism is not..

Saying one is saved by grace through faith, then teaching and professing growing in Christ in faith, by being obedient to him, as we seek after the things of the spirit. and learn to mistrust our flesh more and more (A thing called ongoing sanctification)


Both th elegalist and the faith group preach obedience, It is just one is demanding that it is required or salvation will not occure, the other states salvation is the cornerstone, and Obedience will follow. meaning a person who is truly saved by truth faith (not a licentious faith) will not live in sin, and never will the rest of his life.. (this does not say he will not go through growing pains, and struggles with certain sins, it says he will nto live as he did prior to salvation. as a sinner, not known by God.

He has been born of God, and can not live in sin
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#29
As I have said before, please tell me my sin and failure?
Because you pursue it not by faith but as if it were by works. You stumble over the stumbling stone. (Rom 9:32)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#30
Knowing who you are in Christ because of His finished work that made us "alive" unto God now will change our outward behavior....

"awake to righteousness and sin not..".....this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that....His life in you changes our behavior..

Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.

When we see that we are the righteousness of God in Christ... - we become outwardly who we really are in our new creation in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now.

It's definitely a process for the outward manifestation of who we are in Christ to happen...we need our mind renewed to who we are in Christ now.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."


The question remains..is it us doing it by our own D.I.Y. self-effort/righteousness/holiness?. ....or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.

The flesh profits nothing....it's the Spirit that gives life.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#31
Dear reader,

It is up to you to decide where the bible supports the proposition I am making or the extreme grace version.

Frees approach is not to answer the issue but put the opposite conclusion at the end with no justification.
This is just propoganda, because unless you have eyes to see, and ears to hear, the truth about Jesus falls away.

Does God love you? Yes.
Did Jesus provide a way of finding God? Yes
Does Jesus set you free from sin if you obey Him? Yes

Are the people who complain they are not free from sin in rebellion and disobedience? Yes

What is their message? Righteous behaviour does not matter, and they remove the ability of people to know inside themselves what righteousness actually is.

Do they condemn those who follow Jesus's simple instructions? Yes

Is this the fruit of the enemy or the Holy Spirit? The enemy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
Many have claimed it is slander to say those who call people who believe in obedience and righteousness as legalists, do not themselves support obedience and righteousness.

The real question is, are we talking about the same thing? The answer is no because they reject the principles and morality we would want to obey and call righteousness.
Here is another lie. And another false precept.

We who they call "grace" believers believe in the untethered, un-broken law of God as the just standard of obedience.

We do not water the law down like they do. And consider our sin as just minor instances or goof ups. We see ALL sin as deplorable to God. No matter how small or inconsequential we believe that sin might be, And only by the grace of God can we be forgive of even the smallest of all sin..


We take Gods righteousness (perfection) as the standard. Not mans watered down righteousness.


I am not going to try to argue with you and tell you what you have wrong in your belief system, I am just going to prove your lies..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#33
I was going to respond to this thread when it opened, But figured would not be worth it and hoped people would just let it die the death it deserved.

For the umpteenth time.

Peter bears false witness against us in many ways. One of the things he lies about is that we call him a legalist BECAUSE he preqches obedience.

Well thats a lie.

for the umpteenth time

A legalist is a person, who preaches that works are rrequired for one of the following.


1. To recieve salvation, Also known as grace plus works. Eternal life is not given until after we die. If we meet up to some standard.
2. To Keep salvation/not lose it, disguised to be faith alone, apart from works. But in reality, A works based gospel which teaches that if a person does not live in some way, Salvation, which was given at the moment of faith, can be lost. Or thrown away.


What legalism is not..

Saying one is saved by grace through faith, then teaching and professing growing in Christ in faith, by being obedient to him, as we seek after the things of the spirit. and learn to mistrust our flesh more and more (A thing called ongoing sanctification)


Both th elegalist and the faith group preach obedience, It is just one is demanding that it is required or salvation will not occure, the other states salvation is the cornerstone, and Obedience will follow. meaning a person who is truly saved by truth faith (not a licentious faith) will not live in sin, and never will the rest of his life.. (this does not say he will not go through growing pains, and struggles with certain sins, it says he will nto live as he did prior to salvation. as a sinner, not known by God.

He has been born of God, and can not live in sin

Well said and spot on to expose what is really being said here. I propose that we have already exposed the false accusations and that the readers by the Holy Spirit within them will know the difference.

Let's let these lies die a natural death and trust that the Lord will deal with all of us as He sees fit.

So, I propose we let this thread be and leave it where it lies....and die as it should.....
:)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
Righteousness? Well nothing in the law, because that is just for Jews or to convict of failure.

Here is lie number two. (or am I on three now) That we do not take the law as our standard. I have yet to hear a person in CC say this is true, as far as how a person should live their life.

How to get saved? Well yes, Paul says by the law no man will be saved, But as a guidline of what is morally right? He is lying about what we believe
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
So though these people appear to have the same language as us, they actually approve of a different moral and relationship model.

Yeah we do, Our moral guidline is much more stringent that yours. Ours is moral perfection..Anything that falls short. falls short of the glory of God, and demands a penalty.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#36
And by this we know that we know [GOD]: if we keep his commandments. The one who says “I know him,” and does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. 1 John 2:3-4
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#37
i have to ask : where is all these " people" who keep saying that obedience does not matter??? peter, h.r.f.t.d. , where are they???
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
It is why the language can be the same but the actual implications different.

Not surprisingly this is actually a different faith but with a similar language. Now they argue it is the true faith and what we have practised for 2000 years is actually false legalism and self justification.
lol. Legalism has been around for 2000 years, As has licentiousness (what you claim to be hypergrace) and as has faith.

All three gospels have been around since the begining of time, And they are not going to go away. There is no new gospel as people again lie and want to say we follow..
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,331
6,697
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#39

Yeah we do, Our moral guidline is much more stringent that yours. Ours is moral perfection..Anything that falls short. falls short of the glory of God, and demands a penalty.
exactly. stop comparing yourself to other people. you can always find someone who is morally worse than you. compare your self to God, your legalism will fall apart.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
Now they will strut and preen and say they are being loving to the weak believer and condemning the pharisee for their legalism and hypocracy. Now this appears on the surface a legitimate position until you realise it is they who continually confess about sin and failure, about being bound and never able to be free from issues. The best they do is repress ones conscience, say the Holy Spirit never convicts of sin, and say walking in the Spirit is the goal, but continually walk in the flesh which they feel guilty about.

This makes no sense whatsoever, can you please rephrase, I think I know what your trying to say, But unlike some people I do not want to say something about the other person which is not true..
 
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