Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#1
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#1
Do you see what I see?

This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. If you take a really close look at it, it's actually confirming the security of a believer :).........


Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.

It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.

This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way! :)
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#2
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#2
This OP reflects the belief that righteousness is an eternal possession, rather than GOD's imputation and righteous behavior. In other words, the belief that a person can be righteous yet do unrighteous things. But John is clear:

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#3
#3
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
This OP reflects the belief that righteousness is an eternal possession, rather than GOD's imputation and righteous behavior. In other words, the belief that a person can be righteous yet do unrighteous things. But John is clear:
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​
Click to expand...
So, you are saying you are not righteous and of God then??
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#4
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#4
FreeNChrist said:
So, you are saying you are not righteous and of God then??
Click to expand...
No one is the righteousness of GOD but Christ. We have imputed righteousness, and choose to either walk righteously, or not. Those who do not, will not inherit the kingdom.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#5
#5
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
No one is the righteousness of GOD but Christ. We have imputed righteousness, and choose to either walk righteously, or not. Those who do not, will not inherit the kingdom.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you will not inherit the kingdom?
 
G

God4me

Banned
#6
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#6
Katy-follower said:
Do you see what I see?

This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. If you take a really close look at it, it's actually confirming the security of a believer :).........


Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.

It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.

This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way! :)
Click to expand...
It's very difficult to lose salvation, but Heb 6 and Heb 10 proves that salvation can be lost
Once one has lost salvation, it's impossible to get saved again. If
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#7
#7

Katy-Follower,

I have always believed in the eternal assurance of the believer, but a street preacher used these verses in a very harsh way to convince me otherwise, it actually seems to be the go to verse that salvation can be lost.

I prayed, read and reread these verses and the book until I just felt its Truth by the leading of the Holy Spirit come over me and it was exactly as you stated.

The writer in Hebrews is telling us to move on to maturity, not this cycle of repentance and cleansing as in the NT sacrificial system.

A one time event - DONE. We are kept forever. The perfect plan of salvation that only a perfect loving Father can give.

You have elucidated this perfectly! Thank you.





Katy-follower said:
Do you see what I see?

This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. If you take a really close look at it, it's actually confirming the security of a believer :).........


Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.

It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.

This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way! :)
Click to expand...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#8
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#8
Here is a guy explaining it out....we should never take obscure scriptures out of context - especially if they "seem" at first glance to contradict the abundance of very clear scriptures that say we are secure in Christ. " No one can pluck them out of My or the Father's hand"

[video=youtube;FLcy0hlnqMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcy0hlnqMM[/video]
 
G

God4me

Banned
#9
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#9
Grace777x70 said:
Here is a guy explaining it out....we should never take obscure scriptures out of context - especially if they "seem" at first glance to contradict the abundance of very clear scriptures that say we are secure in Christ. " No one can pluck them out of My or the Father's hand"

[video=youtube;FLcy0hlnqMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcy0hlnqMM[/video]
Click to expand...


How come you always show false and erroneous teachers.
You false grace teachers, are just like Calvinism, Completely twisting Heb 6.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#10
#10
We choose salvation and can choose to give it up.. Bible is so clear on that.. Read it in its entirety not just a few scripts that you can make it say what you want it to say..
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#11
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#11
God4me said:
How come you always show false and erroneous teachers.
You false grace teachers, are just like Calvinism, Completely twisting Heb 6.
Click to expand...
Let's face it - everyone that doesn't believe with you is a false teacher. Everyone that doesn't dress like you is ungodly in your mind which you posted before.

I don't think most people are interested in your brand of religion. Learning of Christ that is in us is far better...but you are free to malign other brethren in the body of Christ all you want.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#12
#12
Ex 18:23-24
If you want a osas pass and assurance, you'll give yourself one.. but don't mislead others
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#13
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#13
We could actually believe what Jesus said.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

We can also believe what Paul said to the Ephesians too. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

We can also believe John because we have the Spirit of truth in us. Jesus is the Truth and we are one spirit with Him because we are in Christ.

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Our Father and our Lord is not looking for ways to keep His beloved children from Him. Jesus stands in our place as our Advocate forever.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#14
#14
Unless you turn from Him.. He said he that puts his hand to the plow and looks back isn't fit..

If one so chooses to be kept, he will indeed be kept...

So many people will think they will be ok and won't be bc incomplete teaching.. for the sake of others and not yourself, you should ask God and the HS will teach you..
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#15
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#15
Hebrews 6:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Once a person is born again (or as Heb 6:4,5 puts it enlightened, and have tasted of the gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come) that person does not become unborn if/when he/she stumbles (sins, or falls away).

To seek to be born again each and every time we stumble (sin) after we have been born again would result in us crucifying the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:6).

The born again believer who sins is to confess his/her sins to Father and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#16
#16
Actually God is clear on the absolute opposite.

We make a choice for salvation like when Noah and his family entered the ark, guess who sealed the door? God

The choice to accept God's gift of salvation is a final we are sealed by His Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) just like when God sealed the door.

You are not able to undo the consequences of the choice if in fact you have indeed been born again.

That would make the old Adam (sin) stronger than the new Adam (Jesus-gift of salvation) in which case Jesus died in vain, I highly doubt God does anything in vain He is perfect.




HisHolly said:
We choose salvation and can choose to give it up.. Bible is so clear on that.. Read it in its entirety not just a few scripts that you can make it say what you want it to say..
Click to expand...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#17
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#17
Can some one un-born themselves from being a human? It's the same thing - we can un-born ourselves from the Holy Spirit - Jesus said He will be with you forever - He didn't add a caveat to His speech. Either we believe Jesus or we don't. We can be sick in our bodies and go to heaven and we can be sick in our heads with wrong thinking and go to heaven because our inner man created in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness.

We are born again of incorruptible seed.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

In order to be "un-born" - the word of God will have to stop abiding forever.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want. I choose to believe Jesus, Paul and John. I think we are called "believers" for a reason.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#18
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#18
HisHolly said:
Ex 18:23-24
If you want a osas pass and assurance, you'll give yourself one.. but don't mislead others
Click to expand...
Exodus 18:23-24 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.

These verses relate to Moses following the advice of Jethro (his father-in-law). Jethro counseled Moses to appoint men to help him in guiding those who came to him [Moses] with questions.
 
Last edited:
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#19
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#19
Grace777x70 said:
Can some one un-born themselves from being a human? It's the same thing - we can un-born ourselves from the Holy Spirit - Jesus said He will be with you forever - He didn't add a caveat to His speech. Either we believe Jesus or we don't. We can be sick in our bodies and go to heaven and we can be sick in our heads with wrong thinking and go to heaven because our inner man created in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness.
Click to expand...
The first is called physical death; the second is called spiritual death. And, in fact, Jesus did add a caveat - only those who do the will of GOD will inherit his kingdom.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#20
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#20
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The first is called physical death; the second is called spiritual death. And, in fact, Jesus did add a caveat - only those who do the will of GOD will inherit his kingdom.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that each time you fall away you become un-born (spiritually)? And that you are born again each and every time you follow instruction in 1 John 1:9?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.