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Some thoughts on the hyper grace threads and my conclusions
I suggest that whatever took a hold of this group of believers, was not the grace of God.
and here are a couple of more:
I may be more concerned now then I was before I started looking into these claims about so called hyper grace.
What I am finding out, is that people who have basically turned from God to live a lifestyle of sin and decadence are being labelled as hyper grace.
I don't 'follow' Joseph Prince or anyone really. I do watch certain speakers or teachers and have a very solid background in scripture and have been involved in ministry myself and it is not perfection or all about joy and love behind the scenes. The only thing I can say about that, is while I have never been involved in a 'stink' in leadership, I've witnessed enough of it, as well as the rumors, jealousy and backstabbing that sometimes goes on.
People condoling sin and getting drunk, committing adultery and cursing others is hardly the grace of God. So why are people calling it hyper grace?
Personally, I don't think ANYONE needs or can or should, point fingers at others and blame grace for sin.
Calling the sinful acts of people who have turned their backs on the gospel and have accepted a lie, HYPER GRACE is utter nonsense.
Let's call it what it is. IT IS SIN.
If a person depends on others for their relationship with God, sooner or later they are going to crash and burn. It's a law of God. God says 'cursed are those who trust in flesh and make it their strength.
Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5
If your relationship with God is THROUGH someone else, YOU DON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! so stop saying that you do! Throughout scripture, God begs...yes, literally begs...people to put their trust IN HIM.
Heresy hunters are a fact of life now and the web has given rise to more self proclaimed experts and 'Bible teachers' and self named prophets than the world has ever seen or God has ever called.
I have seen way too much on these forums concerning hyper grace and have been labelled hyper grace myself by people who are shooting in the dark at anything that they think moves.
I sense both fear and anger in many as the church is, in my humble opinion, convulsing and struggling to keep up with all the 'stuff' that is out there in a vain attempt to keep up with the masses and serve the people what they want and when they want it.
But you know, all God says about that is this:
For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13
If you are depending on a teacher, a pastor or a best friend to feed your relationship with Jesus, you have a broken cistern on your hands. I'm not talking about counselling, or prayer or any other need. I am talking about your PERSONAL relationship with God wherein you call Him Father and He calls you His child.
If you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting the living waters.
You, should be a person who seeks God with all of your heart...God says that is when you will find Him..when you put your heart into it and not just lip service.
Call sin what it is and stop calling grace hyper.
Again, acting like the world is not hyper grace...it is sin and should be recognized as such.
I will also tell anyone reading this, that I don't really care about personal attacks or having my 'motive' for making this thread questioned or being called a hypocrite or anything else.
Christians have already done about all they can do to make me turn from God, so I get where some of you are coming from.
However, God is merciful; He looks on the heart. That, is the terrain of God so if you judge me, that is doubt my sincerity here, I'll leave it up to God as to how and when He has your heart revealed to you.
Have respect for others and consider your words if you want to respond.
Discuss the topic and not the people in the thread.
Thanks
I have seen firsthand the changes that come with people who embrace this message.
“I joined a small group 3 years ago that went from having regular prayer meetings and living holy connected lives together to stating ‘prayer is a work and denies grace’ and ‘sin allows grace to do its great work.’ All of our prayer meetings and Bible studies were traded in for game-nights and nights out at the bar to ‘witness’ where many from the group got plastered ... all in the name of ‘grace.’
“My heart has been so broken for my dear friends who I walked so closely with. As a group, they have embraced sin as not only acceptable, but justified and desirable. I have been completely ostracized and mocked for my stand in holiness. They don’t even call me by my name anymore—they call me ‘Pharisee.’ Unfortunately, I have had to step completely away from these loved ones and am spending my life in prayer for them.”
“I joined a small group 3 years ago that went from having regular prayer meetings and living holy connected lives together to stating ‘prayer is a work and denies grace’ and ‘sin allows grace to do its great work.’ All of our prayer meetings and Bible studies were traded in for game-nights and nights out at the bar to ‘witness’ where many from the group got plastered ... all in the name of ‘grace.’
“My heart has been so broken for my dear friends who I walked so closely with. As a group, they have embraced sin as not only acceptable, but justified and desirable. I have been completely ostracized and mocked for my stand in holiness. They don’t even call me by my name anymore—they call me ‘Pharisee.’ Unfortunately, I have had to step completely away from these loved ones and am spending my life in prayer for them.”
and here are a couple of more:
Another wrote this:“I had a loved one who was an intense follower of hyper grace start to lie and cheat in his business. … He was a different person before he started following hyper grace. … He wasn’t greedy, in fact he was selfless, humble and very much in integrity. Also I can’t mention to him the fact that he lied and withheld info in order to steer people to invest ... Why? Because he says there is no condemnation in Christ. So no one is allowed to mention that aspect of his behavior to him … or else.”
A worship leader wrote to me, describing what is happening among prominent worship leaders he knows, where “the drinking partying thing is rampant. Totally excused because they were under grace not legalism.”
Of course, my hyper-grace friends will protest: “This is not the fruit of our message. Our message produces love for Jesus and holy living. These people obviously misunderstood what we were teaching.”
A worship leader wrote to me, describing what is happening among prominent worship leaders he knows, where “the drinking partying thing is rampant. Totally excused because they were under grace not legalism.”
Of course, my hyper-grace friends will protest: “This is not the fruit of our message. Our message produces love for Jesus and holy living. These people obviously misunderstood what we were teaching.”
I may be more concerned now then I was before I started looking into these claims about so called hyper grace.
What I am finding out, is that people who have basically turned from God to live a lifestyle of sin and decadence are being labelled as hyper grace.
I don't 'follow' Joseph Prince or anyone really. I do watch certain speakers or teachers and have a very solid background in scripture and have been involved in ministry myself and it is not perfection or all about joy and love behind the scenes. The only thing I can say about that, is while I have never been involved in a 'stink' in leadership, I've witnessed enough of it, as well as the rumors, jealousy and backstabbing that sometimes goes on.
People condoling sin and getting drunk, committing adultery and cursing others is hardly the grace of God. So why are people calling it hyper grace?
Personally, I don't think ANYONE needs or can or should, point fingers at others and blame grace for sin.
Calling the sinful acts of people who have turned their backs on the gospel and have accepted a lie, HYPER GRACE is utter nonsense.
Let's call it what it is. IT IS SIN.
If a person depends on others for their relationship with God, sooner or later they are going to crash and burn. It's a law of God. God says 'cursed are those who trust in flesh and make it their strength.
Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5
If your relationship with God is THROUGH someone else, YOU DON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! so stop saying that you do! Throughout scripture, God begs...yes, literally begs...people to put their trust IN HIM.
Heresy hunters are a fact of life now and the web has given rise to more self proclaimed experts and 'Bible teachers' and self named prophets than the world has ever seen or God has ever called.
I have seen way too much on these forums concerning hyper grace and have been labelled hyper grace myself by people who are shooting in the dark at anything that they think moves.
I sense both fear and anger in many as the church is, in my humble opinion, convulsing and struggling to keep up with all the 'stuff' that is out there in a vain attempt to keep up with the masses and serve the people what they want and when they want it.
But you know, all God says about that is this:
For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13
If you are depending on a teacher, a pastor or a best friend to feed your relationship with Jesus, you have a broken cistern on your hands. I'm not talking about counselling, or prayer or any other need. I am talking about your PERSONAL relationship with God wherein you call Him Father and He calls you His child.
If you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting the living waters.
You, should be a person who seeks God with all of your heart...God says that is when you will find Him..when you put your heart into it and not just lip service.
Call sin what it is and stop calling grace hyper.
Again, acting like the world is not hyper grace...it is sin and should be recognized as such.
I will also tell anyone reading this, that I don't really care about personal attacks or having my 'motive' for making this thread questioned or being called a hypocrite or anything else.
Christians have already done about all they can do to make me turn from God, so I get where some of you are coming from.
However, God is merciful; He looks on the heart. That, is the terrain of God so if you judge me, that is doubt my sincerity here, I'll leave it up to God as to how and when He has your heart revealed to you.
Have respect for others and consider your words if you want to respond.
Discuss the topic and not the people in the thread.
Thanks