Romans Seven Revelation

[InSpiritInTruth]

I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and upset their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[FreeNChrist]

no scripture at all just a statement and an apparent unlearned one at that

Right. So show us from scripture the law that gives life.

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not real them ( not their true nature ). The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us.

When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah

The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ.

The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )

Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).

[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).

[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),

[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

italics = my words

Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13

We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."

We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.

We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.

Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.

We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a prefect picture of the true Christian life.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.

Confused noise.

Romans 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[NetChaplain]

The law of sin and death is not the law of God, many people misunderstand Romans 7 and thus try to use it for an excuse for ongoing sin. Here is a study I put together awhile back showing this--->>>>

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is the same Law as the law of sin and death. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin. So what is the law of sin and death? ​

Hi ISIT - Thanks for your input! I have some agreement with your comments, esp. concerning the truth that the law of God is not sin. If you're referring to the Mosaic Law, Scripture does not declare it sin but rather those who were under it were cursed, and is why only Christ fulfilled it, for it required to be sinless to obey it perfectly--without ever "offending" in any point.

The Law was "holy" "just" and "pure" (Rom 7:12) thus requiring one to be the same in their nature (which no man ever was except Christ) when following it. "The strength of sin is the law" (1Cor 15:56) because the Law makes it manifest to us in order to justify our condemnation (John 15:24; 9:41), hence "as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Gal 3:10). The Lord Jesus alone accomplished obeying the Law without offense anywhere to it (Jam 2:10).​

 

[Grace777x70]

Confused noise.

Romans 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Not confused at all.....spiritually discerned....."in the flesh" and "in the Spirit" are positions and descriptions of those without Christ ( in the flesh) and those in Christ ( in the Spirit )

Colossians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,


There are many uses of the word "flesh" in the NT.

Here is one way Paul used it in Romans 7:18

Romans 7:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.



Here is what I have found that scripture has said about "the flesh".

The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.

1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man which has been crucified with Christ on the cross ( Gal. 2:20; Romans 6:6 ) - this is where renewing our minds to the new creation in Christ in our inner man comes in ( Eph. 4:24 and many others like Galatians 5:19 )

2) it is used when talking about self-effort ( Romans 4:1-6 ; Phil. 3:3-9 )

3)and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself ( many places in scripture it is used in this manner)

Context will determine which "flesh" is being spoken of in the scripture.

The body itself is not evil - just what is in it - namely the flesh and the law of sin which functions like a parasite in the flesh ( Romans 7: 17-22 ). Jesus had a natural body too and it was not evil.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Hi ISIT - Thanks for your input! I have some agreement with your comments, esp. concerning the truth that the law of God is not sin. If you're referring to the Mosaic Law, Scripture does not declare it sin but rather those who were under it were cursed, and is why only Christ fulfilled it, for it required to be sinless to obey it perfectly--without ever "offending" in any point.

The Law was "holy" "just" and "pure" (Rom 7:12) thus requiring one to be the same in their nature (which no man ever was except Christ) when following it. "The strength of sin is the law" (1Cor 15:56) because the Law makes it manifest to us in order to justify our condemnation (John 15:24; 9:41), hence "as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Gal 3:10). The Lord Jesus alone accomplished obeying the Law without offense anywhere to it (Jam 2:10).[/INDENT]

Many also misunderstand what brought forth the curse of the law, again it was not the law itself that was a curse. Here is a old post I wrote on that as well---->>>>

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11[SUP] “[/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin. So who’s the bad guy here, the law, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture. And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.” And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:[SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.[SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it! Peace.
​

 

[PeterJens]

After reading romans 7 again, these insights come out to me.

Two things now stand out, about this chapter.
1. The flesh or the enemy of our aspirations of walking with God is "the sinful passions"
2. Our desire to walk with God, our mind does not have power over our passions.

We start the journey alive and optimistic. We think everything is ok and we understand
being good, doing the right thing, etc. Then we start to look at the law. It points out
the problems, which do not stay passive but explode in our life.

When we look at what we do, though we have these assents to behaving well or doing
good, our passions take over and we do something else. It is like another person is in
control, sin, and we are slaves to the behaviour.

Unless we find resolution to this conflict between the assent of our minds against the
sinful passions of our hearts, we are lost.

It is Christ in whom we have now conquered our sinful passions with the passion of love.
The law is like the light which shines on our desires, and we die, but in Christ with love
working within, we are changed and the law of the Spirit rules.

 

[NetChaplain]

After reading romans 7 again, these insights come out to me.

Two things now stand out, about this chapter.
1. The flesh or the enemy of our aspirations of walking with God is "the sinful passions"
2. Our desire to walk with God, our mind does not have power over our passions.

Hi PJ - Thanks for the instructional reply! I believe that concerning the three enemies--self (old self or sinful nature), Satan and society (unbelievers which have always comprised the majority of mankind), self is the greatest opposition because it being within the closest proximity has greater affect; and is that "body of sin" (Rom 6:6) with its "members" (Col 3:5) which you've pointed out (wrongful desires), which God uses to bring us to Christ, and is also used to cause the believer to grow in Christ.

We start the journey alive and optimistic. We think everything is ok and we understand
being good, doing the right thing, etc. Then we start to look at the law. It points out the problems, which do not stay passive but explode in our life.

Accurately described. I believe the primary issue with the soul is the "desire." For the believer the regeneration allows God to cause us to "desire and do of His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13) greater than all that the old man attempts to cause us to do. Thus it is our constant desire He implants that manifests all the difference between being a willing subject (Heb 10:26) or an unwilling subject ("slave" as the Scripture you've shown or "captive" Rom 7:23).

Unless we find resolution to this conflict between the assent of our minds against the
sinful passions of our hearts, we are lost.

Amen, it's as we see what Scripture shows us, the resolution is Christ, by the Spirit! Though the sinful nature (flesh--not the physical body) is "enmity against God" (Rom 8:7), I see that the conflict is between it and the Spirit of God (Gal 5:17), so we can be freed to yield to Him for the "mortification" (Rom 8:13), which I believe concerns that which we do outwardly in "word" and "deed," i.e "conversation" (Eph 4:22; Phl 1:27; 1Tim 4:12 et el).

It is Christ in whom we have now conquered our sinful passions with the passion of love.
The law is like the light which shines on our desires, and we die, but in Christ with love
working within, we are changed and the law of the Spirit rules.

Amen, Christ has conquered so we can inherit the benefits of His expiation and manifest (glorify--John 15:8) God in "obeying the truth through the Spirit" (as you've indicated--Spirit rules--1Pet 1:22).

Love To You!