Grape Juice and God’s Judgment

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Feb 7, 2015
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Grape Juice and God’s Judgment

Growing up in Church, taking communion was a pretty frightening and unnerving ritual. ”What’s so ‘unnerving’ about washing down a sticky, newspaper tasting wafer with a shot of Welch’s grape juice?”, you may ask. Well it wasn’t the experience itself, although for a kid, the enjoyment factor did hinge a lot on who was supplying the wafers that week. There’s those little, rectangular cracker-esque ones which weren’t so bad. Then you’d always have a few months of having to swallow down their more circular cousin, what I call the protestant Eucharist. You know the ones I’m talking about? The little mini circles with the cross stamped in the middle? The ones that have the consistency of paper mache? Yep, those ones. For a kid, that little hit of Welch’s was a welcomed sensation in the mouth after having to force one of those fellows down the hatch.

Seriously though, the edibility of the communion elements aside, what was it that unnerved me so about taking communion? Well, for me it was that lingering thought that I could possibly fall under divine judgment if I “did it wrong”. You see, in every communion service there is the mandatory ”moment of silence”, in which we are encouraged to examine ourselves, making sure that we are “right with God” before proceeding any further. We are told, from the scripture of course, that if we “do it wrong”, that is, if we partake of the body and blood of Jesus in an unworthy manner, we could wind up being candidates for a steaming plate of Divine wrath which could include, but is certainly not limited to sickness, physical weakness and (gulp) death. You can imagine all of the terrifying images dancing in the minds of church kids during that “moment of silence”. That’s the Church for you, sucking the fun out of Welch’s since 1869. Seriously though, from whence come the traditions of a moment of silence, the quickie self exam and the threats of pestilence and woe for “doing communion wrong”? Well, where most heresies come from of course, the Bible!

Jesus once stated that the traditions of men concerning Biblical truths actually have the ability to render God’s word ineffective. You heard me right. Men’s traditional approaches to scripture and theology actually have the capability to, in effect, neuter God’s word and rob it of its efficacy. How so? Well, we come up with an idea as to what a particular text of scripture is saying, and eventually, after years of propagating said idea, it becomes law. It becomes settled like concrete in the collective psyche of Christendom that this or that is what a certain passage is saying. The problem is that a lot of the times we are dead wrong in our interpretations. Why? Because we interpret scripture with an agenda. We read into it what we want to see, and as a result, we come up with all sorts of wacky notions and bizarre doctrines. The biggest issue though, is that we’ve rendered the word of God ineffective. How? You see, once we’ve settled upon what a passage means, but have actually misinterpreted the passage, we are unable to see what is actually being said because we are stuck in our traditional understanding. Suddenly, the true message of the passage is completely lost and almost unrecognizable because of the way we have twisted and misinterpreted it. And with that, “KAPOW”, God’s word is rendered ineffective in our lives.

Unfortunately, 1 Corinthians 11:17-34, which happens to be the most used communion passage in the Bible, is no exception when it comes to our “ineffectualizing” of God’s word. (And yes, I know that’s not a real word.) First let’s take a look at the most oft quoted portions of this verse, which, to the religiously astute, will be immediately recognizable:

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

So far, so good. Let’s keep on reading…

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

OK, and that would be where the “unnerving” part comes into play. It seems pretty obvious doesn’t it? Paul appears to be stating that when we come together and partake of communion in an improper way, it is possible that death and/or sickness could result. It seems to be saying that God disciplined the Corinthians, using sickness and death, in order to teach them that they had better get their communion-taking skills right…or else.

However, as we expand our view of the passage, looking at the sentences that sandwich in this most quoted portion, something slightly different comes into view. Let’s take a look at how Paul opens this particular section of his letter to Corinth:

17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

For starters, it’s important to understand that the early churches “communion services” were vastly different from our own. They didn’t squeeze it in at the end of a Sunday morning service, nor did they sandwich it in between the praise & worship and the sermon. For the early Church, the celebration of the Lord’s supper was a very big deal. A typical meeting in the early Church consisted in what were called love feasts, or simply, the agape. Jude mentions these celebratory gatherings in verse 12 of his one chapter[ed] epistle. The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology states: “…it is evident that that church observed the practice of meeting together for a common meal before partaking of the Lord’s Supper…” This “common meal” is what became known as the agape, or, the Love Feast.

To put it simply, the Love Feast was a meal shared by the body of believers prior to their receiving of communion. It was a joyous event, celebrated in the context of Christ and His work on the Cross. Now, we can clearly see that this is the event being written about by Paul in his address to the Corinthians. However, Paul states that he has no praises to heap upon Corinth in regards to their Love Feasts, only condemnation. Why so harsh there, Paul? Well, Paul tells us that when they came together for their meal, there were “divisions among them“. Apparently, all was not well in Corinth. There were little cliques gathered around different teachers and teachings, and evidently they became rather “clan-ish”, eating their meals with only those who were “on their side”. Paul rebukes them for this.

Paul goes on to address the real problem in even plainer speech. In verses 21 & 22, he reveals what the real problem was:

21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

You see, historically we are told that believers would invite the poor and hungry to their love feasts. Here, Paul states that the believers in Corinth were so caught up in themselves, that during the meal portion of the Love Feast, people were just rudely “filling their plates” as it were, not giving any thought to those who had not yet eaten. As a result, Paul tells us that the poor and hungry were left hungry and were, in Paul’s words, being humiliated and despised by the gluttonous Corinthians.

Are you seeing what the main problem was? Everybody was so caught up in their own little social circles that the poor and hungry were being ignored, going away empty-handed and empty-stomached. It is directly after these statements that Paul launches into his “you’re doing it wrong” tirade, in which he declares that many in Corinth have become sick, weak and even have died as a result of their behavior in the Love Feast. So let me ask you this, who was it that was growing weak, getting sick and who were those who were dying? And why was it happening? Did God just fly off the handle and decide to whack Himself a few Corinthians because of their irreverence? Let’s look again at Paul’s words:

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Now pay close attention to the underlined portions of scripture. Paul states that anyone who eats and drinks of the cup in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body AND the blood of Jesus Christ. That’s simple enough. Paul is saying that when we behave this way, shaming the poor and neglecting the needier members of the Church, and proceed to “partake of communion”, we’re sinning against Christ’s sacrifice. Now, look at what Paul states in verse 29, he says that anyone who eats AND drinks without properly discerning the Lord’s body, eats and drinks condemnation upon himself. Now first Paul states that we sin against the body and the blood, but later he states that men subject themselves to judgment when they do not properly discern the Lord’s body! Why the omission of the ‘blood’ the second time around? Because in this instance, Paul is NOT speaking of the body of Christ represented by the communion bread. Rather, Paul is speaking here about the ACTUAL body of Christ, which is the Church!

Just one chapter later, in 1 Corinthians 12:27, Paul states: ”Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.” So, when Paul talks about discerning the Lord’s body in verse 29, he isn’t merely speaking of the communion bread. He is stating that they have taken part in a religious ritual which is meant to be a participation in the body and blood of Christ, however, the physical body of Christ, which is the Church, was being utterly neglected by these Corinthians. The poor, hungry member who was passed over during the Love Feast is the Body of Christ which was not properly discerned, not the communion bread! What was the result of their shenanigans? Well, many of their members were sick, weak and some had even died! Does this mean God was hurling lightning bolts at these dirty little gluttons? Some commentators believe that is what is being spoken. What seems more likely to me, however, is that the sick, weak members of the Corinthian church were those who were being passed over and not properly cared for. It was those members of the body who were going “undiscerned”, unfed and unnoticed that were suffering for the cliquish Corinthians lack of love and reverence.


Many commentators also assert that the sickness and death mentioned could have been coming upon the unruly Corinthians simply because of their gluttonous and drunken behavior. One way or another, it was the Corinthians actions that were brining about the judgment. They were eating and drinking condemnation upon themselves. How? By neglecting and not discerning the true Body of Christ! The Body which lies not in a wafer, but in the hungry Church member; in the single mother, the widow and the orphan!

Paul ends his address to the Corinthians on this subject with these words:

33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34 If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

Now remember, where was the judgment coming from? The Corinthians were bringing it upon themselves! How? By not discerning the true body of Christ, the Church. So what were Paul’s instructions? “Hey Corinthians, when you come together for your Love Feasts, and you know that the poor and the hungry will be amongst you, eat at home, so that when you come together, those who have nothing can eat their fill. In so doing, you will not be bringing death, sickness and weakness upon the needier members of the Body of Christ!”

Do you see how it works? Do you see what was really being said? This is not a scare tactic passage that should cause you to tremble each time that wafer hits your tongue. Communion should not be a fearful time, but a time in which we celebrate the finished work of the Cross and recognize the person and power of Christ at work in each and every member of the body! It’s a time to commune with Christ, not just through the elements, but in our relationships with each other. This is true communion: Partaking symbolically and spiritually of His death through the elements, but also participating in His life and body by being in loving relationship with the Church.

My point in writing this today was just to put one more little religious myth to bed so that we can get on enjoying the fullness of life that we have in Him. There are far too many religious myths and old wives’ tales floating around out there which only serve to keep us terrified of a God who simply wants to share His life and love with us. Our Greek inspired, Pagan view of the Father has made Him into an entity who can make even grape juice and bad crackers look like instruments of terror. I pray that this little blog helped you to detox a bit from these poisonous views of our loving Father.

Communing with Christ’s Body,
Jeff Turner
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#2
I always wondered Why is everyone so unhappy at communion?

Why was I the only one smiling and happy?

Don't they know that we are doing this in remembrance for what the Lord has done for us???

But then legalism creeps in, and fear...

Oh... that's why they are so unhappy.


Also I went to a Lutheran church a while back that had real bread (home made) and real wine for communion. They also had grape juice for the kids and people who didn't care for the wine.

The kids and I didn't take communion there at first because I didn't quite understand what it was supposed to be about. After a few months of attending they invited us up to take communion. They said something to each other and then the person said something back and I didn't know what it was that they said. I just said "thank you" and the person giving out the communion got this weird look on their face and my kids laughed.

It was my first time going to church. I was pretty much as a child... I wonder if the Lord laughed when I said thank you as well instead of whatever everyone else was saying... I'm still not 100% sure of what they were saying back to the person giving out communion...
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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#3
Funny communion story...i was saved in jail and one Christmas a local church held a communion service for the prisoners. One of my fellow prisoners had a germ phobia but he was a Christian. So the service starts and near the end they ask everyone to line up for communion. They had a few large loaves of bread and each person would take a piece then dip it in the "wine" and eat. The look of horror on my friend's face when he realized he would have to dip his bread in the communal wine cup was so funny I couldn't help but laugh uncontrollably. Of course the pastor hadn't seen what happened so he started in about how we should all be joyful when receiving communion, that only made me laugh more. In the end my friend did a fake dip and by this time my ribs were almost broken from laughing so hard. Best communion ever.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#4
We hug and give an occasional "high five" during communion. And many people have thanked me if I am one of those handing the bread out, as do I thank them if I am in line that week and someone else is administering.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#5
hmmmm

I sure do remember the 'communion' service when I was growing up

kiddies were not allowed to partake until they had expressed salvation and been baptized to identify with Christ in His death and resurrection

no problem...I was saved at 5 and baptized at ...I think 13...

we always had real wine..red of course...and a loaf of bread which had been broken in half and from which each participant broke off a piece. the cup was common...2 halves of bread, 2 wine goblets...and of course two sides seated in the church, together in spirit

later on, separate little cups were offered instead of one common cup, still with real wine, but in consideration of those who preferred, grape juice aka Welches

it was an entire service before the family service...a 45 minute remembrance of Christ...women were not allowed to speak or teach at that church, but participated otherwise. (no comments on that...I'm just writing the facts) I remember no condemnation, but only a 'this do in remembrance of me' reflection as Jesus Himself spoke of at the last supper

oh I'm sure it was by no means perfect, but I remember the Spirit of the Lord being present and hearts turned to God and thankfulness expressed...no condemnation

I think that was probably the closest to a meaningful communion service I have participated in. I don't know why more churches do not either have a separate service dedicated to remembering Jesus or a meal as they had in the NT.

I think the 15 minutes or so most churches seem to tack on, once a month, to the regular morning service, has become more of an obligation and less of a true desire to partake of and remember the sacrifice of the Son of God.

just my thoughts
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#6
Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of Me" My body was broken for you. My blood was spilled for your sins."

Religion has turned it into "Looking at ourselves and searching for sin" It is the complete opposite of what Jesus said. Remember Him! Remember what He has done. Not what you did or didn't do. That's the difference between religion and Christ.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#7
I remember, growing up in the Baptist church, that we would be told to hang our heads low, and strive to conjure up a bloody image of Jesus hanging, naked and beaten, on the cross. And we were also told to feel as bad about ourselves as we possibly could. I think we were supposed to shoot for an image of pond scum.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#8
I remember, growing up in the Baptist church, that we would be told to hang our heads low, and strive to conjure up a bloody image of Jesus hanging, naked and beaten, on the cross. And we were also told to feel as bad about ourselves as we possibly could. I think we were supposed to shoot for an image of pond scum.
==========================================

Willie,

that's a heartbreaker to read, we're so sorry you had to endure those times, we know for sure
that our Heavenly Father has made it up to you many times over.

I well remember taking Communion as youngster, and for me it was very different -

I will just say that my 'home-life' was the pits, and when the Southern Baptist Church
that my precious neighbors were allowed to take me to started to teach me and help me to
learn about how Christ Loved me and what He had done for me at the Cross, well, when
I was allowed to partake of Communion, I actually felt like Jesus was coming inside of me
and letting me know that no matter what happened at home,
He would always be with me and would help me get through each situation...
I was always awed at Communion and felt an Holy Presence during this time-
though I didn't understand it way back then, I surely do now, Praise God!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#9
I remember, growing up in the Baptist church, that we would be told to hang our heads low, and strive to conjure up a bloody image of Jesus hanging, naked and beaten, on the cross. And we were also told to feel as bad about ourselves as we possibly could. I think we were supposed to shoot for an image of pond scum.
I've always been in a Baptist church and I've never heard of anything remotely like this.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#10
I remember, growing up in the Baptist church, that we would be told to hang our heads low, and strive to conjure up a bloody image of Jesus hanging, naked and beaten, on the cross. And we were also told to feel as bad about ourselves as we possibly could. I think we were supposed to shoot for an image of pond scum.
that is difficult to imagine being told to do

thankfully, I received a very positive and uplifting memory regarding remembering Jesus

I cannot think of a more negative way to approach Jesus desire that we remember Him
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#11
I've always been in a Baptist church and I've never heard of anything remotely like this.
This was the largest and most prestigious SBC church in the area back then, and is a Megachurch today.... with a full-size crucifixion (Catholic-style) mounted in the center of their lobby.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#12
Another interesting take on these passages, thanks for sharing.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#14
Great post... It wasn't until a few years ago that I was reading that passage and thinking.... wait a minute.... discerning the body of Christ... the rest of that passage condemns the believers for mistreating the poor, and those not in their "group"... not waiting for them to arrive before starting the meal.... the church is the body of Christ.... hmmmmm...

so, reading things in context is crucial to understanding what is being taught...

Thanks for posting it...

Reminds me of the old "don't drink, don't smoke, don't do anything that might harm your body... because your body is the temple of the Spirit... see, it says it right HERE..."

The only problem with using that scripture is the rest of the scripture, where it says that every other sin is outside the body, but the person that commits adultery is sinning against the body. I argued, I mean, DISCUSSED that with one of my high school teachers, who told me that anything we do that harms our body is a SIN. He drank coffee every day, but didn't see that in the same light, for some reason...:rolleyes: When I pointed out "the rest of the story" in that passage, he said..hmmmm, I'll have to think about that for a while... I never heard what decision he came to...he might still be thinking about it.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#15
I looked a little online, and it turns out that they might have several of these crosses growing out of the floor in that monstrous church building. Here is what appears to be yet ANOTHER one in a different part of the building.

1619129.jpg
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#17
Great post... It wasn't until a few years ago that I was reading that passage and thinking.... wait a minute.... discerning the body of Christ... the rest of that passage condemns the believers for mistreating the poor, and those not in their "group"... not waiting for them to arrive before starting the meal.... the church is the body of Christ.... hmmmmm...

so, reading things in context is crucial to understanding what is being taught...

Thanks for posting it...

Reminds me of the old "don't drink, don't smoke, don't do anything that might harm your body... because your body is the temple of the Spirit... see, it says it right HERE..."

The only problem with using that scripture is the rest of the scripture, where it says that every other sin is outside the body, but the person that commits adultery is sinning against the body. I argued, I mean, DISCUSSED that with one of my high school teachers, who told me that anything we do that harms our body is a SIN. He drank coffee every day, but didn't see that in the same light, for some reason...:rolleyes: When I pointed out "the rest of the story" in that passage, he said..hmmmm, I'll have to think about that for a while... I never heard what decision he came to...he might still be thinking about it.
Good eye! The part of those passages that always bothered me was the "getting sick and dying" part. In all my years, I have never seen anyone drop dead for not chewing a wafer correctly.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#18
That's a pretty stylish cross....:rolleyes:

That building is beginning to resemble a cathedral....
You haven't seen even a small percentage of that building. Even when I was a kid, the old building was the most massive structure in our city... at least a half dozen 30 foot-tall columns across the front that was all stairs, 50 feet across.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#20
This was the largest and most prestigious SBC church in the area back then, and is a Megachurch today.... with a full-size crucifixion (Catholic-style) mounted in the center of their lobby.
It just goes to show you the love of money is the root of all evil.:)