When Were The Disciples Saved?

[Enow]

The disciples were not saved until Pentecost because the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would not be given until Jesus was no longer present with them as the Father will send the Comforter in Jesus's name.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also......

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.[SUP]24 [/SUP]He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.[SUP]25 [/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So the condition for the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost to be sent from the Father was when Jesus was no longer physically present with them.

So the filling of the Holy Ghost in Matthew 10th chapter which included the unbeliever & betrayer, Judas Iscariot was not for salvation and neither was the John 20th chapter event for salvation which did not include the Thomas the disciple.

Jesus has to be no longer physically present for His disciples and new believers to receive the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, and so the disciples were not saved until the day of Pentecost.

John 7:[SUP]38 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP]39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jesus was not glorified until He had ascended to Heaven for us in preparing a way for us to be adopted as citizens of Heaven.

1 Peter 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit is receiving the promise of eternal life from Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:[SUP]17[/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

To be born again is to be born of the Spirit and that comes about by believing in Jesus Christ.

John 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answers how as to when one is born again for it will happen after He had been crucified & after He had ascended.

John 3:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So the 2 times that Jesus had given the Holy Spirit while He was on earth was not the promise from the Father regarding our salvation. Therefore the remaining disciples were not saved until Pentecost when His church was born with Him as the Head in Heaven.

Galatians 3:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith......[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Locutus]

"Saved" in the time of apostles was in a state of waiting for want of a better word:

Heb 9:28 (Young's) so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

Paul tells the Romans their salvation was near when he wrote:

Rom 13:11 And this, knowing the time, that for us, the hour already is to be aroused out of sleep, for now nearer is our salvation than when we did believe


Rom 13:12 the night did advance, and the day came nigh; let us lay aside, therefore, the works of the darkness, and let us put on the armour of the light;


"The day of the Lord" was coming near.


1 Pe 4:7 And of all things the end hath come nigh; be sober-minded, then, and watch unto the prayers.

Salvation in the days of the apostles was much more than "saved" from sin/death but included deliverance from the apostate persecuting Jews:

Luk 21:12 and before all these, they shall lay on you their hands, and persecute, delivering up to synagogues and prisons, being brought before kings and governors for my name's sake;

Luk 21:20 'And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;

Luk 21:28 and these things beginning to happen bend yourselves back, and lift up your heads, because your redemption doth draw nigh.'

 

[Enow]

"Saved" in the time of apostles was in a state of waiting for want of a better word:

Heb 9:28 (Young's) so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

Paul tells the Romans their salvation was near when he wrote:

Rom 13:11 And this, knowing the time, that for us, the hour already is to be aroused out of sleep, for now nearer is our salvation than when we did believe


Rom 13:12 the night did advance, and the day came nigh; let us lay aside, therefore, the works of the darkness, and let us put on the armour of the light;


"The day of the Lord" was coming near.


1 Pe 4:7 And of all things the end hath come nigh; be sober-minded, then, and watch unto the prayers.

Salvation in the days of the apostles was much more than "saved" from sin/death but included deliverance from the apostate persecuting Jews:

Luk 21:12 and before all these, they shall lay on you their hands, and persecute, delivering up to synagogues and prisons, being brought before kings and governors for my name's sake;

Luk 21:20 'And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;

Luk 21:28 and these things beginning to happen bend yourselves back, and lift up your heads, because your redemption doth draw nigh.'

Locutus? I thought you were saved from the Borg?

Humor aside...

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God......[SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If we all wait till we had inherit the promise of eternal life for believing in Him, then we cannot go around telling people about the Good News of Christ being our Savior if we had not been saved yet.

We shall receive our new bodies when He appears or comes for us, but that does not mean we are not saved yet.

So our salvation is now in that day you had believed in Him to be saved; just as the time will come when He will save us from what is coming on the earth, but that is a totally different matter from when we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ just as it is a totally different matter when Christ transformed the saved believers into their newly resurrected bodies.

Ephesians 1:[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

 

[Locutus]

1 Co 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God.

1 Co 1:18 (NKJV) For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The correct tense from the Greek is "being saved" not "which are saved".

A more accurate translation puts a different light on the subject. Of course it was written to THEM in the time of Paul so audience relevance must be taken into account.

 

[Desertsrose]

I believe they were saved beforehand.

Matthew 16:16-17
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:66-69
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Enow]

1 Co 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God.

1 Co 1:18 (NKJV) For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The correct tense from the Greek is "being saved" not "which are saved".

A more accurate translation puts a different light on the subject. Of course it was written to THEM in the time of Paul so audience relevance must be taken into account.

The translation of these modern Bibles all comes from the Alexandrian manuscripts where poetic licensing and gnosticism had been known to exists in the area. The NKJV is the same.

It may take the Lord to help you see His message from Paul, but here we go with His help.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For the preaching of the cross is the subject; it is foolishness to them that perish; hence they do not believe in Him, but it is not to them that are saved for all those that believe in Him. Verse 21 confirms this as the correct message of 18.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.John 3:[SUP]18[/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So that is why those that believe not in the preaching of the cross perish as those that do believe are saved.

Otherwise if you are not saved yet, how can you tell someone that Jesus Christ is your Savior; the Good News to man?

 

[Locutus]

Young's new testament is based on the "received text" same as the KJV and generally is more literal and renders the Greek tense more accurately so:

1 Co 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God.

Is more accurate.

 

[Enow]

Young's new testament is based on the "received text" same as the KJV and generally is more literal and renders the Greek tense more accurately so:

1 Co 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God.

Is more accurate.

Not with John 3:18 it is not.

Scripture cannot go against scripture and so Young's help is wrong.

Ask the Lord to help you read His words in the KJV.

 

[Locutus]

I can read his words in all translations - the KJV does not have the final authority in interpretation.

John 3:18 is not going to change "being saved" into "are saved"

 

[Ariel82]

They weren't born again until Pentecost. They were saved the day Jesus said to them "follow me" and they recognized that He spoke with God's authority and followed.

Perhaps you might want to clarify what you mean by salvation?

When were the Old testament saints saved?

 

[dcontroversal]

They were saved the moment they believed......end of STORY!

 

[Locutus]

KJV Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

If the Romans were saved already someone needs to explain how Paul says their salvation was "nearer".

 

[dcontroversal]

KJV Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

If the Romans were saved already someone needs to explain how Paul says their salvation was "nearer".

Kind of like...SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED and SEALED<----all PAST TENSE!

 

[dcontroversal]

HE that believes on the SON HAS EVERLASTING LIFE......A CURRENT POSSESSION

 

[Locutus]

How can "nearer" be past tense when Paul wrote - he would have to write "for now is our salvation passed"

Not only that - he says the day is near:

KJV Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

The day of salvation was nearer and "at hand".

 

[Locutus]

There is a lot of jumping around here from "saved" to "eternal/everlasting life".

KJV Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

The KJV translators have incorrectly translated the Greek aion as world rather than age:

Mar 10:30 (Young's) who may not receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and fields, with persecutions, and in the age that is coming, life age-during;

Jesus according to Mark's gospel says that "everlasting" life is in the age to come.

 

[Desertsrose]

Young's new testament is based on the "received text" same as the KJV and generally is more literal and renders the Greek tense more accurately so:

1 Co 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God.

Is more accurate.

Okay, I think I see what you're saying.

Are you saying we were saved, we are saved and we're being saved?

 

[Locutus]

Okay, I think I see what you're saying.

Are you saying we were saved, we are saved and we're being saved?

Not really, the opening post asks when were the disciples saved - I pointed out that to them there was more at stake than just being saved from sin/death - they were expecting deliverance from their enemies (the persecuting Jews).

I'll use the KJV here:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Life is Greek zoe - saved, salvation is Greek soteria

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
G4991 soteria so-tay-ree'-ah


feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly, abstract) noun;


rescue or safety (physically or morally).




KJV: deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So while the people in Jesus time in the 1st century had a hold on life but were not yet saved.

(1 Th 1:10 KJV) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Young's correct tense:

1 Th 1:10 and to wait for His Son from the heavens, whom He did raise out of the dead -- Jesus, who is rescuing us from the anger that is coming.

The wrath was coming when Paul wrote and he told them Jesus would be "saving/rescuing" from that. They were then saved.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

[Utah]

They were saved the moment they believed......end of STORY!

Interesting question but DC got it. Yep, yep and more yep.

 

[dcontroversal]

How can "nearer" be past tense when Paul wrote - he would have to write "for now is our salvation passed"

Not only that - he says the day is near:

KJV Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

The day of salvation was nearer and "at hand".

Are you finished yet?
Are you still in a fallen body of sin?
When do you suppose Jesus will finish what he started?
Is your SPIRIT born AGAIN of incorruptible seed?
The sealing of the HOLY SPIRIT is the DOWN PAYMENT and identifies you as a SON OF GOD NOW...<--JOHN SAID NOW are we the SONS of GOD but it doth not yet APPEAR what we SHALL BE.

We are SAVED the moment we believe (a current eternal possession) yet we are WAITING for the ETERNAL BODY which comes at the end of the AGE.

It is a current guaranteed possession that comes to fruition when the dead body is resurrected or changed at the end of the age.

And it speaks of the KING who is OUR SALVATION.............JESUS.....HE IS our SALVATION and SOON he will be here!