The Fixed Earth

[Cup-of-Ruin]

"The earth is stablished that it cannot be moved" Psalm 93:1

"He...hangeth the earth upon nothing" Job 26:7

Greetings,

I could write down hundreds of quotes from the Bible that state that the earth does not move and that it is the sun that moves. The Bible supports a Geocentric system and not a Heliocentric system. Well it is the Bible that is correct and if one is to study cosmology and geophysics, astronomy, mathematics and the earth sciences independently one will understand that the Bible is right and the entire modern scientific education complex is wrong.

There has never been a physical test that proves the earth is moving, all scientific physical tests on the earth only prove a stationary earth.

Of course students of today are taught that the earth revolves around the sun and that no one knew this up until Copernicus and Galileo 'discovered' and proved this! Well that is simply a lie, Copernicus or Galilieo nor anybody else has ever been able tp prove that the earth moves, neither are their ideas modern. The heliocentric system has been around since ancient times, however it was proven to be wrong and the Greek Philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle came to the conclusion that the earth was stationary and the sun moved around the earth just as you see it does. The earth is not a planet, 'planet' means 'wanderer', the earth does not move, and is unlike the other planets, all the other planets revolve around the sun while the sun revolves around the earth. This Geocentric System has been well established and put forward by great scientists such as Aristotle and Tycho Brahe.

Have you ever noticed star trails in photography, they appear in a perfect circular formation, which would not appear if the earth was moving while spinning of it's axis at 23.5 degrees! star trails prove that the heavens move! The idea that our earth is moving at super speed is ridiculous, has anybody tried to actually move at that speed, it would not be very comfortable, in fact the g-forces involved for a moving earth would truly render the earth uninhabitable, forces are involved whenever mass accelerates, what forces would be involved if the mass of the entire earth was travelling at the supposed 100,000 km per hour while rotating on it's own axis at 23.5 degrees at 1000 km/h! I would have to look more like a pancake to live on earth if that was the case!

What I want to know is how come christians do not fight against the false cosmolgy and physics? that are you to decieve the world into believing that the earth moves, when the Bible and all true physical science proves that the earth is fixed!

Don't christians know that Satan decieves the whole world? All our governments and universities are controlled by Satan, do you think that Satan is not in control of NASA? Would they tell you dear christian the truth? No they will lie to you, the people that work in these lie factories no not the truth, they are anti-christs and their science is false, their math does not add up, their logic is faulty and they believe the lie rather then acknowledge the truth. What is the truth about the earth? I will tell you that the earth is held in place so that it cannot move, and God holds the earth in place not with Gravity, but with Electromagnetic energy. The sun revolves around the earth and the planets revolve around the sun. The stars, you were told by the Satanic 'education' establishment are other suns, this is false, the stars are not suns and they are not billion of light years away from the earth, the stars are the language of God that He uses as signs for all to see, stars are made of highly reflective water crystal - the 'waters above' make a 'firmanent'. Do not believe modern cosmology, it is all lies, search for the truth, seek God and trust His word and all shall be added to you.

 

[lorax]

really? smon man, if you are serious they need to lock you up. You take obscure quotes from the bible out of context, and base a theory on it that only you could believe. You must be searching for some sort of reaction. If there is one thing I know is that the older you become the less you think you actually know. You mention scientists such as Aristotle and Brache who support your theory and also did not have the technology we do today in discovering new things. I could go on, but I would just waste my time.

 

[Sooner28]

There has never been a physical test that proves the earth is moving, all scientific physical tests on the earth only prove a stationary earth.

 

[Sooner28]

Are you sure about that statement? Modern astronomers have satellites everywhere above and below the earth to observe it. We have traveled to the moon and you say we have no physical evidence that the earth doesn't move?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Of course students of today are taught that the earth revolves around the sun and that no one knew this up until Copernicus and Galileo

Not sure about that. I recall some Greeks or Indians or maybe Mayans theorised that the earth revolved around the sun.

There has never been a physical test that proves the earth is moving, all scientific physical tests on the earth only prove a stationary earth.

It has been proven that the earth revolves around the sun. Here's why:

1) Bessel in 1838 measured the parallax of nearby stars. This showed the earth was in different places relative to the star after a 6 month period. More measurements since confirmed the earth follows a closed path around the sun. The reason why this was not measured or observed until 1838, was that in the 17th centuary the movements were so small that they were not able to be measured or overlooked altogether.

2) The aberration of starlight was another proof of the heliocentric solar system.

3) Spaceflight has successfully reached its destinations (and arrived) based on heliocentric models of the solar system. Photographs taken from space have also shown the sun at the centre, not the earth.

4) The laws of gravity and planetary motion show that the orbit of the earth is around a common centre of mass which is near the centre of the sun, not the centre of the earth.

the stars are not suns and they are not billion of light years away from the earth

try flying to one, see how long it takes lol.

What I want to know is how come christians do not fight against the false cosmolgy and physics?

Because this stuff written here is quackery.

The idea that our earth is moving at super speed is ridiculous, has anybody tried to actually move at that speed, it would not be very comfortable, in fact the g-forces involved for a moving earth would truly render the earth uninhabitable, forces are involved whenever mass accelerates, what forces would be involved if the mass of the entire earth was travelling at the supposed 100,000 km per hour while rotating on it's own axis at 23.5 degrees at 1000 km/h! I would have to look more like a pancake to live on earth if that was the case!

Suggest you brush up on your Newtonian physics. Yes g-forces are involved when mass accelerates, but you are not talking about acceleration there, 100,000 km per hour figure you quote is velocity which is the time integral of acceleration. You can travel at any velocity and not feel a thing if that velocity is constant. I've given the centripetal acceleration of the earth due to its orbit below, it's very small. Gravity between two objects depends upon the mass of those objects. Given that the sun is many times more mass than the earth, it is the earth which is pulled around the sun. If the sun was to revolve around the earth, the mass of the earth would have to be many times greater than the mass of the sun which we know is impossible. Suggest you study up on Newtonian physics, and note that the gravitational acceleration g experienced on earth is independent of velocity (so the 100,000 km/hr point is irrelevant):
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Gravity/AccOfGravity.html

Taking a look at the centripetal acceleration of the earth around the sun at 100,000 km/hr, the centripetal acceleration of earth around the sun is only approx. 0.0059 m/s^2, so no, you won't be a pancake.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Further proof is that NASA has succsesfully landed rovers on other planets (only Mars I think? ) (which you say do revolve around the sun, and they have never been squashed to a pancake.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Are you sure about that statement? Modern astronomers have satellites everywhere above and below the earth to observe it. We have traveled to the moon and you say we have no physical evidence that the earth doesn't move?

The outer atmosphere of the earth is in motion, that is why the satellite moves around the earth, if it was the earth that was moving along with it's atmosphere, then the sateillite could not orbit as it would be moving within the atmosphere of a moving earth, but it revolves along with space which revolves around the earth.

No life has ever been past the Van Allen radiation belts, in 1969 the television audience of western nations were subjected to a psychological operation which used the medium of film to attempt to convince the television veiwing public that their Government had successfully landed men on the surface of the moon, there are many reasons why this deception was carried out, which I will not go into now, but the primary aim is to support Kabbahla Cosmology. The truth is humans cannot go to the moon, we have known this for a long time, if the spirit of truth is with you then God will guide you into this knowledge, if He is not with you, then you are against Him.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Further proof is that NASA has succsesfully landed rovers on other planets (only Mars I think? ) (which you say do revolve around the sun, and they have never been squashed to a pancake.

NASA! You know there was an astronaut who used to park his car in the parking lot before they would do a launch, he would take out his car stereo because the parking lot was known for theives to frequent and he would take his car stereo with him, he didn't trust anybody so he would take it with him into the cockpit of the shuttle with the rest of his belongings. He didn't feel the pay was good enough to be blasted into the sky only to fall back to earth 4 hours later! He was sick of getting stuff stolen from the grounds and carpark and his office!

Man if you really believe that because the news reader on your television told you that a robot went to Mars, that that is true, do you really believe that because you saw a photo in a Murdoch owned newspaper that it is certifiable and absolutely true. Why not use try to use the powers of reason and logic that God has given you rather then the dumb idols of your life!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

It has been proven that the earth revolves around the sun. Here's why:

1) Bessel in 1838 measured the parallax of nearby stars. This showed the earth was in different places relative to the star after a 6 month period. More measurements since confirmed the earth follows a closed path around the sun. The reason why this was not measured or observed until 1838, was that in the 17th centuary the movements were so small that they were not able to be measured or overlooked altogether.

2) The aberration of starlight was another proof of the heliocentric solar system.

3) Spaceflight has successfully reached its destinations (and arrived) based on heliocentric models of the solar system. Photographs taken from space have also shown the sun at the centre, not the earth.

4) The laws of gravity and planetary motion show that the orbit of the earth is around a common centre of mass which is near the centre of the sun, not the centre of the earth.

As I said there has never been a physical scientific test that has proven the the earth is moving.

Because this stuff written here is quackery.

No the Bible is not quackery, Scripture tells us that the sun revolves around the earth, I do not argue with the word of God.

Suggest you brush up on your Newtonian physics.

Really, I would suggest that you do that.

Yes g-forces are involved when mass accelerates, but you are not talking about acceleration there, 100,000 km per hour figure you quote is velocity which is the time integral of acceleration. You can travel at any velocity and not feel a thing if that velocity is constant.

Oh, have you travelled in a circular motion at 100,000 km/hr? Did you ever go on the amusement park ride - 'The Graviton', it's really good for kids to get a concept of gravity in force! Or you could get a bucket and fill it half full with water - then swing it round and round in a circular horizontal motion, when you hit full speed keep the velocity constant, then make a mental note of what you observe, which will be the water remaining in the bucket forced against the bottom of the bucket.

I've given the centripetal acceleration of the earth due to its orbit below, it's very small. Gravity between two objects depends upon the mass of those objects. Given that the sun is many times more mass than the earth,

If the mass of the sun is so much heavier then the earth as you say, and it is gravity that if pulling the earth to the sun- then you reason that this is because the earth is lighter, well then how much lighter is a feather floating in the breeze? it is not attatched to the earth, if the sun is exerting gravity on the entire mass of the earth, which is obviously heavier then one small feather, and pulling the entire weight of the earth towards it yet that same sun is unable to pull the feather from the light breeze of the earth. Put away the highschool textbooks kid and use your God given brain.

it is the earth which is pulled around the sun. If the sun was to revolve around the earth, the mass of the earth would have to be many times greater than the mass of the sun which we know is impossible. Suggest you study up on Newtonian physics, and note that the gravitational acceleration g experienced on earth is independent of velocity (so the 100,000 km/hr point is irrelevant):
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Gravity/AccOfGravity.html

It is you that does not understand the forces of Gravity. There is an electromagnetic field that God uses to stabilize the earth, so it does not move.

 

[MahogonySnail]

As I said there has never been a physical scientific test that has proven the the earth is moving.

I've given you four good reasons why your view is not true. Welcome to the 21st centuary, your views were disproven long ago.

No the Bible is not quackery, Scripture tells us that the sun revolves around the earth, I do not argue with the word of God.

Your views i.e. interpretation of scripture are quackery. Let's take Ps 93:1 for example, and every bible commentary I have read do not associate this verse with any sort of astrophysics or astronomy, but meaning the world to come:

Gill:

the world also is established

, that it cannot be moved; the world to come, of which Christ is the Father; that which is not put into subjection to angels,

Isa_9:6, the Gospel dispensation, the church state in it;

</B>

and Wesley:

Moved - He will overrule all the confusions in the world, so that they shall end in the erection of that kingdom of the Messiah, which can never be moved.

Really, I would suggest that you do that.

An object of greater mass cannot orbit around an object of smaller mass.
Are you an expert greater than Newton? What is your qualifications then? You must also be smarter than Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler and Galileo. Do you think Newton was wrong? Ever flown on an aeroplane? There's Newton's laws for you, he must have been right.

Oh, have you travelled in a circular motion at 100,000 km/hr?

Yes I have lol, because I'm on the earth which travels in circular (elliptical) orbit at about that speed (actually it's a little bit higher).

Did you ever go on the amusement park ride - 'The Graviton', it's really good for kids to get a concept of gravity in force! Or you could get a bucket and fill it half full with water - then swing it round and round in a circular horizontal motion, when you hit full speed keep the velocity constant, then make a mental note of what you observe, which will be the water remaining in the bucket forced against the bottom of the bucket.

That's very good school-yard science you've explained there. Have you tried the Archimedes principle and making goo out of cornflour and water? that's another good experiment to try next time you are playing in the bathtub with your rubber duckies.

If the mass of the sun is so much heavier then the earth as you say, /QUOTE]

The sun's mass is about the same as 332 946 earth's and diameter is about 1.4 million Km. The earth's diameter is 12756.1 km.

and it is gravity that if pulling the earth to the sun- then you reason that this is because the earth is lighter, well then how much lighter is a feather floating in the breeze? it is not attatched to the earth, if the sun is exerting gravity on the entire mass of the earth, which is obviously heavier then one small feather, and pulling the entire weight of the earth towards it yet that same sun is unable to pull the feather from the light breeze of the earth.

Thanks to Newton, using his laws which he developed we can work out that the acceleration due to the earth going around the sun is only 0.005 m/s^2 which is nothing. The acceleration due to gravity at the earth is much higher (9.8 m/s^2) than the centripital acceleration (0.005 m/s^2) due to orbiting around the sun, so the feather is not going to be pulled into space by the sun.

Put away the highschool textbooks kid and use your God given brain.

I do use my God given brain and so did Newton (he was a devout Christian you know). Did you even graduate high school?

It is you that does not understand the forces of Gravity. There is an electromagnetic field that God uses to stabilize the earth, so it does not move.

What a lot of quackery. Gravity and electromagnetic forces are two different types of forces. You can't stop an object moving with EMF. EMF only prevents charged particles entering the earth. Even if it could, the amount of EMF required to prevent the earth from being drawn into the sun much less prevent it from orbiting the sun, would mean none of our TV's would work and all your cutlery would be flying towards the centre of the earth.

Man if you really believe that because the news reader on your television told you that a robot went to Mars, that that is true, do you really believe that because you saw a photo in a Murdoch owned newspaper that it is certifiable and absolutely true. Why not use try to use the powers of reason and logic that God has given you rather then the dumb idols of your life!

Sir, I can only conclude that you are an idiot in every sense of the word.

 

[NoahsDad]

mohog........I cannot believe you are even acknowledging this..letalone arguing with this ("theology"?)
for lack of a cleaner word........

 

[MahogonySnail]

hmm maybe you're right, my efforts might be in vain.

 

[BLC]

NoahsDad,

If this man where to have an outer body experience into the third heaven, I don't know if that would be enough to convince him. I am not usually an advocate of sarcasm but this conclusion is one for the twilight zone. All of this because of verses like Joshua 10:12-14. Even a child could figure out when the sun stood still and did not go down for a full day (and the moon stayed), was due to the earth not rotating on its axis.

 

[Thaddaeus]

All I want to know is did Eve have a bellybutton?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I've given you four good reasons why your view is not true. Welcome to the 21st centuary, your views were disproven long ago.

No they are not 'good reasons', they are attempted explanations, none of which scientifically prove that the earth moves, in fact as I have stated all physical tests prove a stationary earth.

Your views i.e. interpretation of scripture are quackery. Let's take Ps 93:1 for example, and every bible commentary I have read do not associate this verse with any sort of astrophysics or astronomy, but meaning the world to come:

The sun moves around the earth, the sun is in motion, Psalm 19:6, the circuit of the sun, the Bible does not say that the earth has a circuit, God says the earth is stationary.

An object of greater mass cannot orbit around an object of smaller mass.

Not only the sun revolves around the earth but the entire heavens! Have you measured the mass of the sun? No, but God has and He says it revolves around the earth, I told you to study star trails, the answer is there to see with your eye, the earth does not rotate on it's axis, on a 23.5 degree tilt, this 'wobble' is not seen as a star sign in the light trail, God uses the stars for signs, that's why we know the the earth is not tilted and does not 'wobble'. The secret passed down through the ages, that is not available to the general mass of humanity is that the sun has an elliptical orbit slanted at 23.5 degrees.

Are you an expert greater than Newton?

Do you think that Sir Isaac Newton cared about what you think, I read the word of God and God is the expert and He along with minds far greater than Newton state that the earth is motionless.

What is your qualifications then? You must also be smarter than Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler and Galileo. Do you think Newton was wrong? Ever flown on an aeroplane? There's Newton's laws for you, he must have been right.

Tycho Brahe stated a Geocentric system, Brahe was a genius and was posioned for giving the truth, the others you mentioned were hacks and fakes you will find their names in your school textbooks along with the other 'famous' hacks and frauds and liars. Great scientists and truth speakers get death, they don't get fame in this modern world they get death! 'Those who lose their lives, shall gain their lives'.

Thanks to Newton, using his laws which he developed we can work out that the acceleration due to the earth going around the sun is only 0.005 m/s^2 which is nothing. The acceleration due to gravity at the earth is much higher (9.8 m/s^2) than the centripital acceleration (0.005 m/s^2) due to orbiting around the sun, so the feather is not going to be pulled into space by the sun.

Right, so contrary to what the science of the Bible, you believe that a feather cannot be pulled towards the sun but the earth is pulled towards the sun, well if it is the gravitational force and not the electromagnetic force that I have stated, then given the both the feather and the earth are moving at the same speed, the sun's gravitational pull being greater we would see that the feather would not be able to escape the pull of the sun, which of course is many times greater.

What a lot of quackery. Gravity and electromagnetic forces are two different types of forces. You can't stop an object moving with EMF. EMF only prevents charged particles entering the earth. Even if it could, the amount of EMF required to prevent the earth from being drawn into the sun much less prevent it from orbiting the sun, would mean none of our TV's would work and all your cutlery would be flying towards the centre of the earth.

You know you should really praise Nachmanides and the Medieval Talmudists instead of Newton and Copernicus, they put forward the heliocentric model long before Copernicus decided to tell the lie. Luther and Calvin to their credit put up a good fight against the copernicus 'revolution'. According to your modern Newton/Copernicus model of Gravity that you have blindly followed without question, the moon exerts gavitational pull which causes the tides, the gravitational pull of the moon causes, apparently within your 'Gravity' model the entire mass of the earth oceans to move! I wonder what the mass of the world's oceans are, well according to your 'law of gravity' that entire mass of water is being pulled towards the moon!!! Yet a single feather can float away from the moon's supposed gravitational pull! I laugh at Keplers law of universal gavitation and so does God, did you know that Kepler used to also say that the dark patches on the moon are where the hordes of people that live on the moon are farming! Did you know that? Kepler was a hopeless liar and none of his 'science falsely called' adds up, it is easily proven wrong.

 

[MahogonySnail]

There's only one part I'll bother replying to:

that's why we know the the earth is not tilted and does not 'wobble'.

The wobbling you refer to , called precession and nutation, won't be observable on star trails. Because
nutation occurs every 18.6 years and 0.5 years, and precession every 26,000 years. It is very real because they have to account for it in satellite orbits etc. Let me guess, you don't believe man landed on the moon either. I thought you were a sane sensible sort of fellow until you came out with this garbage, and what's worse is you claim to speak for God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Right, so contrary to what the science of the Bible, you believe that a feather cannot be pulled towards the sun but the earth is pulled towards the sun, well if it is the gravitational force and not the electromagnetic force that I have stated, then given the both the feather and the earth are moving at the same speed, the sun's gravitational pull being greater we would see that the feather would not be able to escape the pull of the sun, which of course is many times greater.

That's not how it works. How can the earth's EMF pull a feather or anything towards the earth? The feather is not a charged particle. Do you have any concept whatsoever about the things you are talking about? EMF is polarised, ie negatively or positively charged, and it decreases with distance from the source. Unlike gravity which always attracts and works over long distances. Yet objects in space that are further out than the earths EMF reaches to (where it is very weak anyway), still are drawn into the earth, how? By gravity. You'd have to explain how this supposed EMF attracts objects like satellites and causes them to revolve around the earth? If it was EMF, they would not only be attracted to the earth, they would also be repelled from the earth (due to its +ve and -ve charge), which simply does not happen.

Re: gravity. The feather is inside the Earth's system, and has to firstly overcome 9.81 g and the mass of the air that it is inside. Only if the feather were outside of the earth's atmosphere and near the sun might it be pulled toward the sun due to the sun's gravity. From the point of view of the feather, the Earth is much bigger than the feather, so that feather is never going to float towards the sun, given that the acceleration due to revolution around the sun is so small anyway.

If what you said was true, then they would not be able to put satellites into space or do anything in space because their calculations would be off. You wouldn't have TV, internet, or anything like that.

 

[eric51]

"The earth is stablished that it cannot be moved" Psalm 93:1

"He...hangeth the earth upon nothing" Job 26:7

Greetings,

I could write down hundreds of quotes from the Bible that state that the earth does not move and that it is the sun that moves. The Bible supports a Geocentric system and not a Heliocentric system. Well it is the Bible that is correct and if one is to study cosmology and geophysics, astronomy, mathematics and the earth sciences independently one will understand that the Bible is right and the entire modern scientific education complex is wrong.

There has never been a physical test that proves the earth is moving, all scientific physical tests on the earth only prove a stationary earth.

Of course students of today are taught that the earth revolves around the sun and that no one knew this up until Copernicus and Galileo 'discovered' and proved this! Well that is simply a lie, Copernicus or Galilieo nor anybody else has ever been able tp prove that the earth moves, neither are their ideas modern. The heliocentric system has been around since ancient times, however it was proven to be wrong and the Greek Philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle came to the conclusion that the earth was stationary and the sun moved around the earth just as you see it does. The earth is not a planet, 'planet' means 'wanderer', the earth does not move, and is unlike the other planets, all the other planets revolve around the sun while the sun revolves around the earth. This Geocentric System has been well established and put forward by great scientists such as Aristotle and Tycho Brahe.

Have you ever noticed star trails in photography, they appear in a perfect circular formation, which would not appear if the earth was moving while spinning of it's axis at 23.5 degrees! star trails prove that the heavens move! The idea that our earth is moving at super speed is ridiculous, has anybody tried to actually move at that speed, it would not be very comfortable, in fact the g-forces involved for a moving earth would truly render the earth uninhabitable, forces are involved whenever mass accelerates, what forces would be involved if the mass of the entire earth was travelling at the supposed 100,000 km per hour while rotating on it's own axis at 23.5 degrees at 1000 km/h! I would have to look more like a pancake to live on earth if that was the case!

What I want to know is how come christians do not fight against the false cosmolgy and physics? that are you to decieve the world into believing that the earth moves, when the Bible and all true physical science proves that the earth is fixed!

Don't christians know that Satan decieves the whole world? All our governments and universities are controlled by Satan, do you think that Satan is not in control of NASA? Would they tell you dear christian the truth? No they will lie to you, the people that work in these lie factories no not the truth, they are anti-christs and their science is false, their math does not add up, their logic is faulty and they believe the lie rather then acknowledge the truth. What is the truth about the earth? I will tell you that the earth is held in place so that it cannot move, and God holds the earth in place not with Gravity, but with Electromagnetic energy. The sun revolves around the earth and the planets revolve around the sun. The stars, you were told by the Satanic 'education' establishment are other suns, this is false, the stars are not suns and they are not billion of light years away from the earth, the stars are the language of God that He uses as signs for all to see, stars are made of highly reflective water crystal - the 'waters above' make a 'firmanent'. Do not believe modern cosmology, it is all lies, search for the truth, seek God and trust His word and all shall be added to you.

Happy Memorial Day!

Christians are bound to affirm all that the Church teaches as matters of faith and morals. We reject pure naturalism, and we believe that the universe was made out of nothing by the free will of God. The Church believes Genesis teaches us truth about the origin of the world because the Bible is God's infallible revelation. But if we affirm the Bible as God's inspired book, must we reject at all secular science as somehow ungodly? If we take Genesis chapters 1 and 2 seriously, are we required to believe that God made the world in six twenty-four hour days, even if scientific research tends to indicate otherwise?

Augustine, bishop of Hippo from 395 to his death in 430, wrote commentaries on the Genesis creation narratives five times in his life. Why did Augustine spend so much time on the Genesis creation narratives? Augustine encountered different philosophies of his day. These belief systems left a deep impression on him, and he was convinced later that he had to defend the Christian faith against them. He produced some of the most powerful arguments ever offered in defense of God's creation.

Augustine never used the term "science" in its modern sense nor did any other ancient writer, Christian or pagan. This was not because there was no science in antiquity but because it was called natural philosophy. Natural philosophy, up until the nineteenth century generally, meant the knowledge of a specific science and the philosophy of nature implied by that knowledge. He was convinced that two of the most powerful tools in combating false science were reason and sense experience

Augustine's first guideline is to recognize the purpose of Scripture. Human language is slippery. To understand what someone is telling us, we must hear the words and discern the person's intention. The Bible is a special case because it has human authors but behind each one there is a divine author, the Holy Spirit. When we read the Bible, we want to know both the human and divine authors' intentions. The divine intention or purpose of Scripture may be discerned from the language used in a biblical text.
ful tools in combating false science were reason and sense experience.

The purpose of the Bible is redemptive, said Augustine. God gave us the Bible to instruct us in the knowledge of salvation, not science. In his Literal Commentary Augustine asked what Scripture teaches about the shape or the form of the heavens, a topic that many ancient writers addressed. Are the heavens spherical or flat like a disc? Or, does it matter? He responded: "Many scholars engage in lengthy discussion on these matters, but the sacred writers with their deeper wisdom have omittedthem. Such subjects are of no profit for those who seek God, and, what is worse, they take up very precious time that ought to be given to what is spiritually beneficial." These words may seem to suggest that Augustine disparaged science, and he has been interpreted that way by secular-minded readers. He did not think that natural knowledge was worthless, only that it was inferior to knowledge of God, who made nature. Augustine was saying that the biblical authors were not giving a definitive theory of the heavens in a scientific fashion.

Augustine warned against a danger among Christians of his day and ours. If the Christian insists on a certain scientific theory as if it were the teaching of th e Bi ble, and it turned out to be wrong, then the unbeliever will reject the Bible wholesale and miss the saving purpose God has in composing it. This danger is so real that Augustine emphasized it a number of times in his writings. Unreliable knowledge of nature is not ****ing but it can be a stumbling block "if he thinks his view of nature belongs to the very form of orthodox doctrine, and dares obstinately to affirm something he does not understand." In this case, the Christian's lack of true knowledge becomes an obstacle to the unbeliever's embracing the truth of the gospel. The great harm, says the bishop of Hippo, is not that "an ignorant individual is derided" but that "people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions and . . . the writers of Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men."

Christians sometimes make themselves obstacles to the salvation of others rather than instruments of it. They do so when they equate a scientific theory with the meaning of the Bible. Augustine was well aware of this danger already in the fifth century. Not much has changed since. His solution is humility both in the interpretation of nature and the interpretation of Scripture.

How can such humility be engendered? By recognizing that the Bible is more about "the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven" than it is about "the motion and orbit of the stars, their size and relative positions, and the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon." He warns against self- imposed authorities in biblical interpretation: "Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books."


Is there nothing then in Scripture that bears on science? If the Bible is not a book of science, how can we ever say anything about the natural world with divine authority? Augustine did not think that the Bible was irrelevant to nature. That would be to divide truth, and for Augustine truth is one. His second guideline is to recognize the harmony between natural knowledge and scriptural knowledge. Science and interpretation do not teach the same subjects, but neither do they contradict one another. You will find not cytology in the Bible. The pages of the sacred text say nothing about the structure, functions or interactions of cells. Nor does cytology teach us about the passion, death, and resurrection of Christ.

But suppose a biologist says that the only explanation for the origin of cells is spontaneous generation, that is, origin without any previous cause. The Christian immediately knows that something is amiss, for several reasons. This contradicts the statements of Genesis that all things have their origin from God.

The Literal Commentary advises a two-step procedure. First, we must evaluate whether the scientific claim has any validity. This must be done by the methods of science, empirical observation and theoretical reasoning. It is not enough to quote the Bible against a scientific theory. If we are unsure about the conclusion, we can consider it false. "The truth is rather in what God reveals than in what groping men surmise." This would be true in the case of spontaneous generation. It is a very different claim from those made about the structure of cells. Cell structures can be verified and tested. Spontaneous generation cannot be verified. It is a global statement about what cannot be-that is, no previous cause. And science cannot make statements about what cannot be, only about what is. So, Augustine would say that we can regard spontaneous generation as false unless someone can verify it.

Suppose someone says that the earth is no more than ten thousand years old, as Christians in the West believed for centuries. Again, we should test this claim by the means that science has at its disposal. For well over a hundred years historical geology has developed tests to show that the earth must be far older than ten thousand years. These tests are cross-checked and rechecked to make sure the time estimates are not flawed. Now what should we do? Shall we insist that the Bible teaches that the earth is no more than ten thousand years old? Could it be that our interpretation is wrong? Augustine advises the second step: "But if they are able to establish their doctrine with proofsthat cannot be denied, we must show that this statement of Scripture . . . is not opposed to the truth of their conclusions." He urges us to change our interpretation of Scripture, not because Scripture is to be ruled by science, but because no two truths made by God will contradict one another. All truth comes from God, whether discovered by science or by the Church in its interpretation of Scripture. The first question we must ask is whether a particular scientific theory is well-founded. If it is, then we must make sure we don't read the Bible in a manner that contradicts sound knowledge of nature.

God Bless.

Amen

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

That's not how it works. How can the earth's EMF pull a feather or anything towards the earth? The feather is not a charged particle. Do you have any concept whatsoever about the things you are talking about? EMF is polarised, ie negatively or positively charged, and it decreases with distance from the source. Unlike gravity which always attracts and works over long distances. Yet objects in space that are further out than the earths EMF reaches to (where it is very weak anyway), still are drawn into the earth, how? By gravity. You'd have to explain how this supposed EMF attracts objects like satellites and causes them to revolve around the earth? If it was EMF, they would not only be attracted to the earth, they would also be repelled from the earth (due to its +ve and -ve charge), which simply does not happen.

Re: gravity. The feather is inside the Earth's system, and has to firstly overcome 9.81 g and the mass of the air that it is inside. Only if the feather were outside of the earth's atmosphere and near the sun might it be pulled toward the sun due to the sun's gravity. From the point of view of the feather, the Earth is much bigger than the feather, so that feather is never going to float towards the sun, given that the acceleration due to revolution around the sun is so small anyway.

If what you said was true, then they would not be able to put satellites into space or do anything in space because their calculations would be off. You wouldn't have TV, internet, or anything like that.

It is not difficult to put an object into orbit or a human...you know before a human was put in orbit, a monkey was sent up there, it's not hard, you just fiil the bottom end of metal capsule with explosive fuel and set fire to it, it's pretty basic stuff, because space revolves around the earth, because the earth is the centre of this known universe and all of space and the heavens revolve around the earth. In regards to EMF's I don't want to get to technical because of the nature of this Forum but I would advise you to research and study as your level of scientific knowledge is obviously limited and you have been decieved, but with study and guidence from the spirit of truth you may learn.

 

[MahogonySnail]

What are you afraid of re: EMF? Afraid that your quackery will be exposed? I bet you a senior high school physics student knows more than you do.