To all pre-tribulation believing Christians.

[XGraveX]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice that in the above passage in this post tribulation rapture that angels are gathering the elect and the condition to be raptured there is:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Enduring to the end of the tribulation and you'll be saved. Don't take the mark of the Beast (Revelation 20:4)
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Faith and works to be saved and post trib raptured!!
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1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

The way to be saved and raptured here is right in the context as well:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again (like 1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9)
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1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

How to be saved and pre trib raptured in the church age according to the context of the scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Adrianv125]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice that in the above passage in this post tribulation rapture that angels are gathering the elect and the condition to be raptured there is:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Enduring to the end of the tribulation and you'll be saved. Don't take the mark of the Beast (Revelation 20:4)
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Faith and works to be saved and post trib raptured!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

The way to be saved and raptured here is right in the context as well:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again (like 1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9)
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1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

How to be saved and pre trib raptured in the church age according to the context of the scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Very eloquently and blatantly put.

 

[peterT]

I agree with those post tribulation rapture passages for the tribulation saints specifically the ones coming from the gospels ie Matthew and Mark.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice this "first resurrection" and the context of the chapter of who gets to partake in this:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Would you say the above applies to church age saints that didn't even get to the tribulation? They didn't even get to see the Beast (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). Remember when Matthew 24 was cited and the "gospel of the kingdom" (Matthew 24:14) was cited? The condition to be saved during that tribulation period:
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

A cross reference alluding to these resurrections:

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The second resurrection occurs here:
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

You are still defending the pre-tribulation coming without scripter.

2 Thessalonians 2 :1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
There is nothing about Jesus coming before the tribulation here. I don’t know what you mean here

“Would you say the above applies to church age saints that didn't even get to the tribulation? They didn't even get to see the Beast (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). Remember when Matthew 24 was cited and the "gospel of the kingdom" (Matthew 24:14) was cited? The condition to be saved during that tribulation period:
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

I don’t know what you mean here. Do you mean all dead Christians from times gone by ? if so then we meet them in the air. This [is] the first resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The two Christian end time witnesses are dead and are razed in the clouds
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
It means This [is] the first resurrection.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
John is going back and forward here

6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
John is going back and forward here.

 

[peterT]

Very eloquently and blatantly put.

You are still defending the pre-tribulation coming without scripter.
Just because you believe in a pre-tribulation coming without scripter doesn’t make it so
So you pick on doctrine with scripter to make you feel better about you having NO scripter lol

 

[peterT]

How to be saved and pre trib raptured in the church age according to the context of the scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No resurrection/rapture before the tribulation in these scriptures. It’s the doctrine of darkness and its so dark we can’t see it. May be because it’s not there.

 

[peterT]

How to be saved and pre trib raptured in the church age according to the context of the scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Maybe it’s a Secret rapture theory hidden in the word between the lines, for ONLY those in the biblical Knowledge can see it. YES?

 

[peterT]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Notice that in the above passage in this post tribulation rapture that angels are gathering the elect and the condition to be raptured there is:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Enduring to the end of the tribulation and you'll be saved. Don't take the mark of the Beast (Revelation 20:4)
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Faith and works to be saved and post trib raptured!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

The way to be saved and raptured here is right in the context as well:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again (like 1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

No Matthew 24:29 signs here, no angels gathering saints

How to be saved and pre trib raptured in the church age according to the context of the scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

Are you listing to yourself?

There is one Christian NOT two.

There is one salvation NOT two.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

 

[peterT]

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

Are you listing to yourself?

There is one Christian NOT two.

There is one salvation NOT two.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

1 Corinthians 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[peterT]

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

Are you listing to yourself?

There is one Christian NOT two.

There is one salvation NOT two.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.


Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 3:6But CHRIST as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take THY crown.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[XGraveX]

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

Are you listing to yourself?

There is one Christian NOT two.

There is one salvation NOT two.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

You definitely answered my question that you believe salvation is the same in all places of the Bible:

"There is one salvation not two"

This is the reason you have ignored the scriptural differences between how a person is saved during the church age and the tribulation period.

Newsflash: We're in the church age and not the tribulation period.

Since you've cited the book of Matthew and the gospel of the kingdom, now it's time to show you what the Bible teaches concerning this gospel of the kingdom and where it goes.

Matthew 4:23 ¶And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 ¶And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

#1. Jesus Christ commissioned the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews. The Bible says:

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Circumcision = Jews

#2 If you say this is my opinion, see the scriptures that prove it:
Matthew 10:5 ¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (avoid the Gentiles/Samaritans)
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
You can't get any plainer that this!!!
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Salvation during this time period AND the tribulation period are faith and works as evidenced by Matthew 10:22 and -

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus Christ is preaching about "the end" of something in both passages. How do we know this is dealing with the tribulation period? With the context of scripture!

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here's the scriptural evidence of folks that endured to the end of the tribulation:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (see Revelation 13:12-18 as this event is SPECIFIC TO THE TRIBULATION PERIOD) and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The term "kingdom of heaven" is specific to the book of Matthew and it is not found in the Pauline epistles nor is the "gospel of the kingdom" found in the epistles which deal with the church age. The gospel of the kingdom deals with Jesus Christ offering the kingdom of heaven (which we will see again in the millenial reign of Revelation 20 since the Jews rejected their Messiah) to his people (the Jews) accompanied with signs and wonders (see Matthew 10:8 above) because the Jews require a sign. This is not my opinion:

1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Notice what qualifies as signs:

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Hello Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 10:8!!

When you cite the book of Hebrews, notice who it is written to....Hebrews/Jews and it points to a time between the church age and the tribulation period. What's the scriptural proof for that?

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Sound familiar? The end of what?

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

What happens to these folks if they endure to the end of the tribulation?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (see Revelation 13:12-18 as this event is SPECIFIC TO THE TRIBULATION PERIOD) and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They also get a thousand year reign with Jesus Christ. In the tribulation, if you don't endure to the end, you lose salvation. It's all through the book of Hebrews and the gospels which have much prophecy about the tribulation and the millenial thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[XGraveX]

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Posting scripture concerning what the Bible teaches about salvation in different time periods does not = me changing the rules. Your personal attacks against me aren't going to change what the Bible teaches. If you are getting angry/upset about it, then rightly divide Matthew 10:22/24:13
vs Romans 10:9-13 instead of hurling ad hominem attacks.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Who's denied that scriptural fact? from the following post

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28297-pretribulationalist.html#post503309

Believers in the church age receive persecution and tribulation but not the great tribulation. I believe in the pre trib rapture for church age saints and post trib rapture for tribulation saints according to scripture.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2 Corinthians 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2 Corinthians 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Foxe's Book of Martyrs? How about the Albigenses, Waldensians, Hugenots, etc .. all the Christians that the Romans tortured/killed (these are all church age saints) all suffering and dying for the Lord Jesus Christ

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Scripture please?

Are you listing to yourself?

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Jeremiah 17:5 ¶Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

I'm listening to Jesus Christ and the scriptures, not my opinion.
There is one Christian NOT two.

Were there Christians in all ages of the Bible? 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Where's the scripture? I provided plenty for the Bible position that was presented in my posts.

There is one salvation NOT two.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Where's the scripture? I provided plenty for the Bible position that was presented in my posts.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

Wrong.

Matthew 27:52-53

Ephesians 2:1-6

1 Corinthians 15:49-55

Ezekiel 37

Revelation 7:9, 11:12
You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Are you listing to yourself still?

I don't disagree with the post tribulation rapture. I know according to scripture who it's for. I agree with the losing salvation scriptures in the gospels and in the post Pauline epistle books. They point to the period before the church age where an individual could lose salvation and tribulation saints who won't endure to the end. Matthew-John, Hebrews - Revelation.

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

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Jesus Christ appointed Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles:

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 11:1 ¶Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Jesus Christ also revealed to Paul the gospel of the grace of God:

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How to obey the gospel:

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

If you can't see the difference between the "gospel of the kingdom" and the "gospel of the grace of God" - you are most likely not saved/lost

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The gospel of the grace of God is specific to the church age and was not the plan of salvation in the Old Testament nor will it be in the tribulation period nor millenial reign.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

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Galatians 1:6 ¶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 ¶For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 ¶For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:12 ¶For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Jews and Gentiles (in the church age) are saved if they repent and believe the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:21,24/1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans10:9-13)