Smith Wigglesworth?

[AnandaHya]

what are your thoughts?

Someone recommended him and I looked up a few sermons and found this passage vaguely concerning. Please refrain from making this into an argumentative denominational thread and only post comments you can Biblically back up if needed.

He's Pentecostal so anyone with an axe against that demonination, please start a different thread instead of trying to denounce it in this one.

"Then with all my faith I began to penetrate the heavens, and I was soon out of that house, I will tell you, for I never saw a man get anything from God who prayed on the earth. If you get anything from God, you will have to pray into heaven; for it is all there. If you are living in the earth realm and expect things from heaven, they will never come. And as I saw, in the presence of God, the limitations of my faith, there came another faith, a faith that could not be denied, a faith that took the promise, a faith that believed God's Word. And from that presence, I came back again to earth, but not the same man. God gave a faith that could shake hell and anything else.

I said, “Come out of her, in the name of Jesus!” And she rolled over and fell asleep and wakened in fourteen hours perfectly sane and perfectly whole.

There is a process on this line. Enoch walked with God. That must have been all those years as he was penetrating, and going through, and laying hold, and believing and seeing and getting into such close cooperation and touch with God that things moved on earth and he began to move toward heaven. At last it was not possible for him to stop any longer. Oh, Hallelujah!"- Wigglesworth

Smith Wigglesworth | Bibliography | Sermons

Smith Wigglesworth | Bibliography | Sermons

so my questions are is there any Biblical basis for "pray into heaven" and being IN the Heaven realm when one prays?

 

[AnandaHya]

I like this statement of his:

"
I understand God by His Word. I cannot understand God by impressions or feelings; I cannot get to know God by sentiments. If I am going to know God, I am going to know Him by His Word. I know I shall be in heaven, but I could not build on my feelings that I am going to heaven. I am going to heaven because God's Word says it, and I believe God's Word. And “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” Rom. 10;17."

Smith Wigglesworth | Bibliography | Sermons

it kind of tells you that it not by FEELINGS or impressions but by God's Word that you should base your understanding.

 

[AnandaHya]

oh and these words are very nice too....

" We must also know the mind of God toward us, so that all our petitions are always on the line of His will.

As this like precious faith becomes a part of you, it will make you so that you will dare to do anything. And remember, God wants daring men, men who will dare all, men who will be strong in Him and dare to do exploits. How shall we reach this plane of faith? Let go your own thoughts, and take the thoughts of God, the Word of God. If you build yourself on imaginations you will go wrong. You have the Word of God and it is enough. A man gave this remarkable testimony concerning the Word: “Never compare this Book with other books. Comparisons are dangerous. Never think or never say that this Book contains the Word of God. It is the Word of God. It is supernatural in origin, eternal in duration, inexpressible in value, infinite in scope, regenerative in power, infallible in authority, universal in interest, personal in application, inspired in totality. Read it through. Write it down. Pray it in. Work it out. And then pass it on.”

And truly the Word of God changes a man until he becomes an epistle of God. "

 

[zone]

against.....

 

[Israel]

I see nothing harmful about what he wrote. The only problem I would have with it is when he mentions a different faith. There is only One faith, demonstrated in and amongst all men.

 

[AnandaHya]

not so sure about this sermon on spiritual power. yes Jesus can heal but that does not mean He has to or He will just because YOU will it. not sure about the faith healing movement... mmm...

Smith Wigglesworth | Bibliography | Sermons

 

[AnandaHya]

I see nothing harmful about what he wrote. The only problem I would have with it is when he mentions a different faith. There is only One faith, demonstrated in and amongst all men.

haven't seen that yet do you know which sermon he speaks about that?

FAITH THAT PREVAILS

1. God-Given Faith
2. Like Precious Faith
3. Spiritual Power
4. Paul's Pentecost
5. Ye Shall Receive Power
6. Keeping The Vision
7. Present-Time Blessings
EVER INCREASING FAITH

1. Have Faith in God
2. Deliverance to the Captives
3. The Power of the Name
4. Wilt Thou Be Made Whole?
5. I Am the Lord That Healeth Thee
6. Himself Took Our Infirmities
7. Our Risen Christ
8. Righteousness
9. The Words of This Life
10. Life in the Spirit
11. What It Means to Be Full of the Holy Ghost
12. The Bible Evidence of the Baptism of the Spirit
13. Concerning Spiritual Gifts
14. The Word of Knowledge and Faith
15. Gifts of Healings, and Miracles
16. The Gift of Prophecy
17. The Discerning of Spirits
18. The Gift of Tongues
MISCELLANEOUS SERMONS

1. Workers together with God
2. Preparation for the Second Coming (1)
3. Immersed in the Holy Ghost
4. Active Life of the Spirit-filled Believer
5. The Way to Overcome: Believe
6. Our Calling (part 1)
7. Our Calling (part 2)
8. Ye are Our Epistle (part 1)
9. Ye are Our Epistle (part 2)
10. Great Grace Upon the Church
11. Greater Works Than These
12. Like Precious Faith (1)
13. Like Precious Faith (2)
14. The Power of Christ's Resurrection
15. What wilt Thou have Me to do?

 

[Graybeard]

against.....

of course.....

 

[Rosewater]

Edited - not an issue of concern.

 

[zone]

of course.....

no question about what i believe greybeard
i'm consistent.

REFORMED
5 SOLAS
AMILLENNIAL
CESSATIONIST

 

[Israel]

haven't seen that yet do you know which sermon he speaks about that?

FAITH THAT PREVAILS

1. God-Given Faith
2. Like Precious Faith
3. Spiritual Power
4. Paul's Pentecost
5. Ye Shall Receive Power
6. Keeping The Vision
7. Present-Time Blessings
EVER INCREASING FAITH

1. Have Faith in God
2. Deliverance to the Captives
3. The Power of the Name
4. Wilt Thou Be Made Whole?
5. I Am the Lord That Healeth Thee
6. Himself Took Our Infirmities
7. Our Risen Christ
8. Righteousness
9. The Words of This Life
10. Life in the Spirit
11. What It Means to Be Full of the Holy Ghost
12. The Bible Evidence of the Baptism of the Spirit
13. Concerning Spiritual Gifts
14. The Word of Knowledge and Faith
15. Gifts of Healings, and Miracles
16. The Gift of Prophecy
17. The Discerning of Spirits
18. The Gift of Tongues
MISCELLANEOUS SERMONS

1. Workers together with God
2. Preparation for the Second Coming (1)
3. Immersed in the Holy Ghost
4. Active Life of the Spirit-filled Believer
5. The Way to Overcome: Believe
6. Our Calling (part 1)
7. Our Calling (part 2)
8. Ye are Our Epistle (part 1)
9. Ye are Our Epistle (part 2)
10. Great Grace Upon the Church
11. Greater Works Than These
12. Like Precious Faith (1)
13. Like Precious Faith (2)
14. The Power of Christ's Resurrection
15. What wilt Thou have Me to do?

Can't tell you. I don't know who the man is honestly.

Ephesians 4:4-7

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

There is ONE body (all men make up the body of Christ) and One Spirit ( all men move and breath by that same Spirit). ONE Lord ( whoever He truly is, EVERY KNEE WILL BOW TO HIM), One faith ( demonstrated by the body), One baptism (true submersion in water is death as all men will indeed drink the cup that Jesus drank), ONE God AND FATHER OF ALL, AND THROUGH ALL, AND IN ALL. But to every one of us (INDIVIDUALY) is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

 

[tdrew777]

Romans 8 talks about setting our mind on the things of the spirit as opposed to the things of the flesh. In that sense, praying in the spirit communicates with God and "praying in the flesh" is an oxymoron - impossible. But we can pray on earth in the Spirit. The Kingdom of Heaven is here on the earth. Spiritual beings live on earth. Unseen spiritual things happen here on earth. I do not have the full contact of Smith Wigglesworth's quote, but his heaven/earth dichotomy seems not to be accurate.

 

[Cobus]

Well AnandaHya, let me ask you this from a few verses in the Bible...
If we are still not knowlegable enough to pray IN THE SPIRIT, the Spirit intercess for us... does He do it here or into heaven?

And the Feverent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS MAN, does He pray in Spirit or in body? God says HE HEARS the prayer of the righteous... IF HE HEARS them, is HE IN HEAVEN OR HERE?

My I say this... When a righteous man pray, and the SPIRIT GIVE UTTERANCE... even the ANGELS HAVE A BLAST ON THAT...
So I guess a rghtoues man prays right into heaven.... God loves the feverent prayer of the righteous... and it AVAILETH MUCH HEAVELY POWERS... the prayer reached the POWERS TO COME//// WOW!!!

 

[Kerry]

no question about what i believe greybeard
i'm consistent.

REFORMED
5 SOLAS
AMILLENNIAL
CESSATIONIST

Zone is all about what she can do and has no faith in the cross. She can save and sanctify herself and preaches such. Yeah I called you out and hey your purdy too,

 

[triple-seven]

First of all, Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within you and it does not come with your watchful observation. Smith is digging deep into that kingdom and finding something that only a few find and what that is…is true, genuine and effective faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Secondly, it says in the word of God that we are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Smith is realizing this and as he stands before the throne of Mercy, he is able to see what God sees. That nothing is impossible for Him or for the one who believes in Him. If you need me to tag these verses by passage I can do that. I mentioned 3 verses to support Smith's claims. Here's another verse for anyone who is skeptical. You can judge a tree by the fruit it bears. Smith wigglesworth had a very fruitful life, many were healed and many came into the knowledge of the Lord through him. So don't be quick to judge or be skeptical because it's not good to speak against God's anointed. I'm not putting this man on a pedestal, I would say that the same is true for anyone of you who are anointed by God.

 

[zone]

zone said: no question about what i believe greybeard
i'm consistent.

REFORMED
5 SOLAS
AMILLENNIAL
CESSATIONIST

updated:

Confessional Lutheran
5 Solas
amillennial/partial preterist
cessationist

Zone is all about what she can do and has no faith in the cross.

duh okay.


REFORMED
5 SOLAS
AMILLENNIAL
CESSATIONIST

what do any of the above have to do with what I CAN DO.

and where do any of the above show NO FAITH IN THE CROSS?

anyway...my faith is in Jesus Christ and His life; death and resurrection.
so not only do i not know what you're on about...neither do you.

She can save and sanctify herself and preaches such.

produce any posts where i even suggest any such thing.
i insist that you do so.

if i made those accusations toward you, i'd produce the evidence in your own words.

kindly produce posts where i indicate i can save myself; sanctify myself - and "preach such".

i'm bookmarking this post, and will call you to account for it.

Yeah I called you out

unfortunately you did something.
now back it up.

and hey your purdy too,

you're not only just blatantly lying in this post, you don't know what i look like.

now produce the proof for your LIBEL.

 

[zone]

incidentally...this thread is 2+ years old.
can't you folks start a new one - are we that short of topics?

in any case, Kerry.....bookmarked.
waiting.

zone.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I'm starting to think Kerry is off meds or drunk

 

[Exoaria]

Well the fact remains that Wigglesworth did perform these miracles so it was either God's will, or he was doing it by faith in who he was in Christ. Either way it happened. I don't know what to think, I tend to like his teachings.

 

[zone]

Repeat in your heart often, "baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire, fire, fire!" All the unction, and weeping, and travailing comes through the baptism of fire, and I say to you and say to myself, purged and cleansed and filled, with renewed spiritual power. - Smith Wigglesworth

-Smith Wigglesworth - A Life Ablaze With The Power Of God, by William Hacking

...



Baptism by/with fire

- occurs only once in the Bible.

...

"First, it should be understood that Matthew’s record is a very abbreviated account of John’s ongoing ministry. Vast multitudes were pursuing John as he preached in “the wilderness of Judaea” (3:1, 5). The verb “went out” (v. 5) is an imperfect tense form, which suggests a steady stream of auditors.

Additionally, the careful student will recognize that these crowds were of a mixed quality. Some were sincere; they confessed their sins and were immersed by John in the Jordan (v. 6). Others, quite obviously, were caught up in the emotionalism of the occasion. Among these were Sadducees and Pharisees.

John characterized these Jews as “offspring of vipers,” who would be advised to “flee from the wrath that is to come” (v. 7). This possibly has a more immediate reference to the destruction of Jerusalem (cf. the reference to “even now the axe lies at the root of the trees” [v. 10]), but then, more remotely, to the final day of human reckoning (v. 12)."

...

"The promise, “he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit,” has reference to the apostles. The Savior’s testimony in Acts 1 establishes this: “[F]or John indeed baptized with water; but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence” (v. 5).

It will hardly be denied that there is a connection between Acts 1:5 and Matthew 3:11. The promise was fulfilled on Pentecost when the apostles received an “overwhelming” (the significance of baptizo) measure of the Spirit’s power (Acts 2:1ff).

But what is the significance of the “fire” in John’s statement? The immediate context would suggest that it is an allusion to the final fate of the wicked. Verse ten says that “every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” Then, at the conclusion of verse twelve, Jesus continues: “whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.”

Why should the “fire” of verse eleven be viewed as something different from that referenced in verses ten and twelve, without some sort of compelling justification?

Of this expression in Matthew 3:11, J. H. Thayer commented: “to overwhelm with fire (those who do not repent), i.e., to subject them to the terrible penalties of hell” (1958, 94). W. E. Vine noted regarding the “fire” of this passage: “of the fire of Divine judgment upon the rejectors of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and the fire of Divine retribution)” (1991, 308). Arndt and Gingrich speak of the “fire of divine Judgment Mt. 3:11; Lk. 3:16” (1967, 737). Finally, as J. W. McGarvey observed, the phrase “baptize you . . . in fire” cannot refer to Pentecost, because there was no “baptism of fire” on that day. Parted “tongues,” which were merely “like as of fire . . . sat upon” each of the apostles. Those brothers were not “overwhelmed with fire” on that occasion (1875, 38)."

...

Arndt, William and F. W. Gingrich. 1967. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago.
McGarvey, J. W. 1875. Commentary on Matthew and Mark. Des Moines, IA: Eugene Smith.
Thayer, J. H. 1958. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. Edinburgh, Scotland: T. & T. Clark.
Vine, W. E. 1991. Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. Iowa Falls, IA: World.

www.christiancourier.com

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