Nationalism As a Religion

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lesjude

Guest
#1
Nationalism As a Religion
Nationalism, just as religion has its fathers of the 'faith', its 'sacred' writings, symbols, its creeds and oaths of allegiance, songs/hymns of praise, it's shrines, its heroes of the 'faith' and martyrs, defenders of the 'faith', the crime of treason/heresy, requirements/demands for sacrifice and service, and financial obligations. Nations grant 'absolution' for acts done to defend it that other wise would be crimes. It has willing followers who pledge their lives, fortunes, sacred honor, and families to defend it. It has rewards for service, ideals and goals that unite believers, and offers an identity that transcends self for the perceived common good. Nationalism just as false religion uses myths (lies widely believed to be true) to keep their adherants compliant with the leaders' carnal agendas. Here is an example of this use of lies by a long deceased expert:
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

When a Christian worships at the altar of nationalism/patriotism he is simply bowing down to another religion just as Nebuchadnezzer required.

Christians worship at this altar when they send their sons and daughters off to fight, kill, be maimed and die in its carnal wars, allow their children to be brained washed by the propaganda of US history, engage in the uncleanness of partisan politics, swear oaths to serve it, and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth that is the symbol of a nation that has done at least as much evil as good in the world, as well as within its own borders.
Shadrach, Meshack, and Abed-Nego understood this and so refused to bow down. They knew what kingdom they were citizens of just as Daniel did, and the true nature of ALL earthly kingdoms. Christians do not seem to know this and pay a very high price because they do not.

First it is pledging allegiance to something that as Christians we cannot support and is a lie. This nation is not under God in the sense it obeys Him, there is NOT liberty and justice for all, and that God's name is Jesus.
1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
AND
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

AND Psalm 2:1 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

THIS IS THE NEARLY COMPLETED PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS THE TRAINING USED BY THE MILITARY TO TURN HUMANS INTO KILLERS WHICH IS TOTALLY AGAINST WHAT GOD BUILT INTO ALL. THE MARINES SEEM TO BE THE BEST AT THIS. PLEASE SEE ON KILLING BY DAVE GROSSMAN. HIS SOLUTIONS ARE JUNK BUT HIS THESIS IS RIGHT ON.

THE US AIR FORCE HAS A SEMINAR FOR ITS OFFICERS RESPONSIBLE FOR LAUNCHING NUCLEAR MISSILES THAT QUOTES THE BIBLE TO PROVE JESUS SAYS IT IS OK TO DO. IT IS TAUGHT BY A CHAPLIN. JESUS NOWHERE SAYS THIS, NOR DOES THE BIBLE.

There is no such thing as a Christian nation, but Christians in nations being salt and light. The book of Daniel is an excellent commentary on God's view of all government through all time. Note Dan 2:46- 49 compared to chapter 3. Note the mistake Daniel made in 2:46 and 48 which opened the door for chapter 3 to happen. Daniel learned however: Dan 5:16-17. God calls Nebuchadnezzar the greatest ruler in all history. Note what He says about him in Daniel 4:17.

The flag being pledged to is soaked in innocent blood, both of its own citizens and people world wide. Most believe that WWII was a 'just' war for Christians. I will give an examples that it was not. On the night of March 8/9, 1945 over 900 B29's fire bombed Tokyo from 9000 feet. More civilians were killed that night then in Hiroshima. Crews said they could smell the burning flesh. The planes were pressurized! The commander that ordered it said he would be tried as a war criminal if the US lost the war. This was repeated on nearly every major Japanese city except two. They were saved for another purpose.

In the first major US bombing raid that was targeting civilians instead of military targets in Germany the aiming point was the front steps of the city's cathedral at about noon. The lead bombardier questioned it but was ordered to do it. He did. Then there is the example of Dresden and MANY MORE. There is no such thing as a just war for a disciple of Jesus. Who would Jesus shoot?

American history books are largely packed with lies and half truths. I taught high school social studies for 22 years and this was one reason Jesus told me to leave teaching. I have since discovered it is much worse than I thought.
All this having been said we are to pray for the government and those in authority, honor those in authority, not be critical, and obey the laws unless they cause us to sin i.e. fight and kill in war. Jesus teaching is AGAINST any civil disobedience for our 'rights'!
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
I find Nationalism to be somewhat ridiculous in light of the Gospel.

John 18:36
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
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#4
...When a Christian worships at the altar of nationalism/patriotism he is simply bowing down to another religion just as Nebuchadnezzer required.

Christians worship at this altar when they send their sons and daughters off to fight, kill, be maimed and die in its carnal wars, allow their children to be brained washed by the propaganda of US history, engage in the uncleanness of partisan politics, swear oaths to serve it, and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth that is the symbol of a nation that has done at least as much evil as good in the world, as well as within its own borders.
All "nationalism" in the world is not like the nationalism of the US. There are peoples who even have no own "nation", although they have been indigenous inhabitants of a certain area for thousands of years. Deprived of every right, they fight for their existence as a people and their right to a country. So, a little distinction with terms might be good.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#5
Amen!

I think you might want to build a fort though, many people in here are going to get really mad reading this.

Norway is said to be a christian nation, yet they to their best to remove all traces of it.
And I have seen soooo many americans talking about America being not only a nation under God , but "Gods nation", and go to war to kill other natios as if it was a task given by God. it scares me really.
 
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lesjude

Guest
#6
All "nationalism" in the world is not like the nationalism of the US. There are peoples who even have no own "nation", although they have been indigenous inhabitants of a certain area for thousands of years. Deprived of every right, they fight for their existence as a people and their right to a country. So, a little distinction with terms might be good.
Those you mention that fight for to be a nation are no different than those who already fight because they are a nation. The Balkans prior to WW I are a good example and of course recently; as well as the Kurds, Armenians, Chechens, et al. Fighting and killing for any reason is not what a disciple does. If they are doing Matthew 10:7-8 and Mark 16:17-18 it should keep them occupied.
 
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lesjude

Guest
#7
Amen!

I think you might want to build a fort though, many people in here are going to get really mad reading this.

Norway is said to be a christian nation, yet they to their best to remove all traces of it.
And I have seen soooo many americans talking about America being not only a nation under God , but "Gods nation", and go to war to kill other natios as if it was a task given by God. it scares me really.
The US seems to be on a program of world domination in the guise of democracy and progress.
There is no need to be afraid for believers: Psalm 91 and
Zephaniah 2:3New King James Version (NKJV)

3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the Lord’s anger.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#8
Those you mention that fight for to be a nation are no different than those who already fight because they are a nation. The Balkans prior to WW I are a good example and of course recently; as well as the Kurds, Armenians, Chechens, et al. Fighting and killing for any reason is not what a disciple does. If they are doing Matthew 10:7-8 and Mark 16:17-18 it should keep them occupied.
You are equaling nationalism with armed fighting. I find no plausible logic in such reasoning.

Why not equal radical pacifism (refusing to physically resist invasions and genocides) with the assent of the killing of one's own people?

This issue does not only boil down to what a disciple should do or not do. It is about a wide field of politics, where no one is neutral. There are not always "easy answers".
 
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lesjude

Guest
#9
[
quote=tribesman;693842]You are equaling nationalism with armed fighting. I find no plausible logic in such reasoning
.
Every nation in the world with few exceptions was created by wars. Nationalism has been a major cause of wars since nations came into existence.

Why not equal radical pacifism (refusing to physically resist invasions and genocides) with the assent of the killing of one's own people
?
I do not do this because the Bible does not. Jesus never demanded obedience from disciples. He taught and practiced nonresistance, gave real life examples, and died as an example of it. He said those that have ears to hear... Disciples will hear and obey.
This issue does not only boil down to what a disciple should do or not do. It is about a wide field of politics, where no one is neutral. There are not always "easy answers".
[/quote]
What you are saying is that there are no moral absolutes in the Bible and everything is relative. That is a lie directly form Satan.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#10
Every nation in the world with few exceptions was created by wars. Nationalism has been a major cause of wars since nations came into existence.
Any sources to back up that claim, or just your own opinion?

I do not do this because the Bible does not. Jesus never demanded obedience from disciples. He taught and practiced nonresistance, gave real life examples, and died as an example of it. He said those that have ears to hear... Disciples will hear and obey.
Jesus practiced His non-violence for a reason. He never condemned military or armed service. He told a soldier not that it was a sin to be a soldier, but to be content with his salary.

What you are saying is that there are no moral absolutes in the Bible and everything is relative. That is a lie directly form Satan.
No I am not saying that. I am saying that your so called answers are not scriptural but your own mere preferences. Your "easy answers" simply don't hold water.

If you are into falsely accusing then YOU do the bidding of satan and I shall waste no more time to talk to you, unless you repent from such.
 
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lesjude

Guest
#11
Any sources to back up that claim, or just your own opinion?
Open any history book and look at the history of Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa. AU and NZ are the only major nations I can think of that were not created as a result of war. However nationalism has brought them into several.
Have you never taken a history course?
Jesus practiced His non-violence for a reason. He never condemned military or armed service. He told a soldier not that it was a sin to be a soldier, but to be content with his salary
.
That was John the Baptist who said that:
Luke 3:14New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?”
So he said to them, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages.”

John did not have the revelation of nonresistance as Jesus had not taught it yet. He did not follow Jesus and lost his revelation of who Jesus was and his head as a result.
No I am not saying that. I am saying that your so called answers are not scriptural but your own mere preferences. Your "easy answers" simply don't hold water.
Obviously non resistance is not easy, but Jesus taught it and disciples will obey.

If you are into falsely accusing then YOU do the bidding of satan and I shall waste no more time to talk to you, unless you repent from such
.
I accuse no one. I simply have given the scripture. If you are "accused" it is not I who is doing it.
Romans 8:1
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Do you have the Acts 2:4 experience? If not do you want it? If not why not?
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
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#13
Addendum: But it is correct that it was John the baptist who told the soldiers that in Luke 3. However Jesus Himself, as well as Paul, met soldiers (in Matt.8 and Acts 10 for example) and never condemned them for being soldiers. The bottom line being that the "commandment" that says that "carrying arms is a sin" is a commandment of men. The end.
 
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lesjude

Guest
#14
Addendum: But it is correct that it was John the baptist who told the soldiers that in Luke 3. However Jesus Himself, as well as Paul, met soldiers (in Matt.8 and Acts 10 for example) and never condemned them for being soldiers. The bottom line being that the "commandment" that says that "carrying arms is a sin" is a commandment of men. The end.
Jesus NEVER condemned anyone but the religious people of His time. He simply gave His teaching, gave examples, lived and died doing it. Disciples will as well. Jesus gave 2 commands: love you neighbor and your enemies as yourself and love God which is demonstrated by obedience.
Killing is not loving. Who would Jesus shoot?