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P
If you would follow your own train of thought, and pay attention to what was responding to it would help a lot. This is what I was responding to:
"Historicism is traditional?
It started 1500 or so years after Jesus went up to heaven.
How is that traditional?"
Now we can see was patently false. Let alone that Christians have understood the day-year language pretty much throughout the Christian era, which required the historicist approach to prophecy.
Regardless of what you wish to believe Jesuit Luis Alcazar's invention is what the Roman Church used to argue against the Reformers. The Reformers didn't buy it.
Outside of how you have been indoctrinated, what reason do you have to believe that New Testament prophecy would be fulfilled, in a fashion different than that in which Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled?
"Historicism is traditional?
It started 1500 or so years after Jesus went up to heaven.
How is that traditional?"
Now we can see was patently false. Let alone that Christians have understood the day-year language pretty much throughout the Christian era, which required the historicist approach to prophecy.
Regardless of what you wish to believe Jesuit Luis Alcazar's invention is what the Roman Church used to argue against the Reformers. The Reformers didn't buy it.
Outside of how you have been indoctrinated, what reason do you have to believe that New Testament prophecy would be fulfilled, in a fashion different than that in which Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled?
P
What Christian would deny that they have been indoctrinated, and continue to indoctrinate themselves? Did you arrive at preterist doctrine purely on your own? There are only 3 viable approaches to bible prophecy. Since I've never met an "Idealist" (seems also 19th century) I don't count it.
It isn't about me. Why don't you google it? I'm just kind of betting that you wouldn't hesitate to stick futurists in the eye with Jesuit Francisco Ribera and John Nelson Darby. Do you think they are any more willing to take an honest look at them than you are Alcazar? They can find incidence of their doctrine in the ECFs just like preterists can. But not much evidence of either being in the church to any extent until the 19th century. You are welcome to stick me in the eye with those great men of God of the Reformation - that rescued the church from the dead formalism of the Roman Church - any day!
Matthew Henry: "VI. That this prophecy of those times, though sealed up now, would be of great use to those that should live then, v. 4. Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book....
Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved.
Isaac Newton: Isaac Newton: "This Prophecy is called the Revelation, with respect to the scripture of truth, which Daniel was commanded to shut up and seal, till the time of the end. Daniel sealed it until the time of the end; {Daniel 12:4, 9} and until that time comes, the Lamb is opening the seals:....
All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: .... But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many." (Part II. Observations Upon the Apocalypse of St. John. Chap 1)
Have fun wielding the Alcasar bogey man, and tagging on modern en vogue events to "traditional" historicism. 
Matthew Henry: "VI. That this prophecy of those times, though sealed up now, would be of great use to those that should live then, v. 4. Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book....
Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved.
Isaac Newton: Isaac Newton: "This Prophecy is called the Revelation, with respect to the scripture of truth, which Daniel was commanded to shut up and seal, till the time of the end. Daniel sealed it until the time of the end; {Daniel 12:4, 9} and until that time comes, the Lamb is opening the seals:....
All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: .... But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many." (Part II. Observations Upon the Apocalypse of St. John. Chap 1)
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Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
If we consider John's assignment shouldn't we be looking at John's "whole world", that is, take an ethnographic view of what John had seen, was seeing, and was prophesying to come thereafter? This ethnographic view is also suggested by Strong's:
world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by
implication of 1093); TDNT - 5:157,674; n f
AV - world 14, earth 1; 15
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world
Let's adopt that more scholarly view for a moment, and consider that bible prophecy is more about God's people, in the context of the land described by Strong's, rather than about Peoria Illinois or New York city.
So let's look again at the state of John's "whole world" today:
Today we find John's "whole world" is almost entirely given over to the followers of THE false prophet Muhammad. So let me explain why I uppercased the "THE".
Earlier I pointed out that tens of millions of Jews and Christians understand Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" to have been the successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. No surprise that John's prophecy describes a composite leopard-bear-lion beast, and informs us that the dragon, Satan, gives the beast his seat.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
In the map above we can see that the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom occupies the same geographical seat as did Daniel's successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Iraq, Iran and Syria-Lebanon. While the false prophet Muhammad's followers even murder each other over doctrinal differences, the fact of the matter is they are all perfectly united under the false prophet Muhammad, and his Quran, through the spirit of antichrist. For a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even pray in Jesus' name, constitutes the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam. It doesn't get any more antichrist than that brother. Being required to deny the Son of God as an article of faith in the false Muhammad alone.
Tens of millions of Christians also understand the first 6 of John's 8 kings/beasts to have been Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire as the "one is" beast of John's day. But that's when the wheels seem to fall off of most views, rather than simply turning to the historical record.
The historical fact of the matter is that the the Roman Empire fell in 639 AD at the hands of the Islamic First Jihad. Also the 7th head of the leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13.
The first jihad suffered a mortal wound and did not recover until healed by western wealth transfer through oil development and purchase. The head wounded to death and healed. Here's a Reformer on the subject:
"….. it is said, five of the seven Kings are fallen, and one is, and another is not yet come; and the Beast that was and is not, being wounded to death with a sword, he is the eighth, and of the seven: he was therefore a collateral part of the seventh." - Isaac Newton
Think he would have had any trouble with the identity of the "beast"?
Now we can see that outside of the tiny little strip of land where folks are protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, almost everyone in John's "whole world" follows THE false prophet Muhammad. Virtually everyone in John's "whole world" carries the name of the Islamic beast:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Thus through an ethnographic hermeneutic, we can see that this is a fulfilled prophecy. No need to wait for Hal Lindsay's microchip to be implanted in the hands of residents of Peoria Illinois. And of course now that Gaza has been turned over to the antichrist followers of the antichrist false prophet Muhammad - the Hamas "democracy" - it is well on the way to being just another sharia law ruled, church and synagogue burning and Christian and Jew murdering, little girl circumcising, multiple wife and concubine beating, slave making and trading, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state. Secular international powers working to convert the last of the non-purple area into an Islamic slave state.
"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law
"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians
If we consider John's assignment shouldn't we be looking at John's "whole world", that is, take an ethnographic view of what John had seen, was seeing, and was prophesying to come thereafter? This ethnographic view is also suggested by Strong's:
world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by
implication of 1093); TDNT - 5:157,674; n f
AV - world 14, earth 1; 15
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world
Let's adopt that more scholarly view for a moment, and consider that bible prophecy is more about God's people, in the context of the land described by Strong's, rather than about Peoria Illinois or New York city.
So let's look again at the state of John's "whole world" today:
Today we find John's "whole world" is almost entirely given over to the followers of THE false prophet Muhammad. So let me explain why I uppercased the "THE".
Earlier I pointed out that tens of millions of Jews and Christians understand Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" to have been the successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. No surprise that John's prophecy describes a composite leopard-bear-lion beast, and informs us that the dragon, Satan, gives the beast his seat.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
In the map above we can see that the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom occupies the same geographical seat as did Daniel's successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Iraq, Iran and Syria-Lebanon. While the false prophet Muhammad's followers even murder each other over doctrinal differences, the fact of the matter is they are all perfectly united under the false prophet Muhammad, and his Quran, through the spirit of antichrist. For a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even pray in Jesus' name, constitutes the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam. It doesn't get any more antichrist than that brother. Being required to deny the Son of God as an article of faith in the false Muhammad alone.
Tens of millions of Christians also understand the first 6 of John's 8 kings/beasts to have been Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire as the "one is" beast of John's day. But that's when the wheels seem to fall off of most views, rather than simply turning to the historical record.
The historical fact of the matter is that the the Roman Empire fell in 639 AD at the hands of the Islamic First Jihad. Also the 7th head of the leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13.
The first jihad suffered a mortal wound and did not recover until healed by western wealth transfer through oil development and purchase. The head wounded to death and healed. Here's a Reformer on the subject:
"….. it is said, five of the seven Kings are fallen, and one is, and another is not yet come; and the Beast that was and is not, being wounded to death with a sword, he is the eighth, and of the seven: he was therefore a collateral part of the seventh." - Isaac Newton
Think he would have had any trouble with the identity of the "beast"?
Now we can see that outside of the tiny little strip of land where folks are protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, almost everyone in John's "whole world" follows THE false prophet Muhammad. Virtually everyone in John's "whole world" carries the name of the Islamic beast:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Thus through an ethnographic hermeneutic, we can see that this is a fulfilled prophecy. No need to wait for Hal Lindsay's microchip to be implanted in the hands of residents of Peoria Illinois. And of course now that Gaza has been turned over to the antichrist followers of the antichrist false prophet Muhammad - the Hamas "democracy" - it is well on the way to being just another sharia law ruled, church and synagogue burning and Christian and Jew murdering, little girl circumcising, multiple wife and concubine beating, slave making and trading, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state. Secular international powers working to convert the last of the non-purple area into an Islamic slave state.
"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law
"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians
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P
PS kenisyes:
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
The 7 heads the 7 kingdoms through history. The 7th head Islam, First Jihad wounded to death, then healed through western wealth transfer financing the Islamic Second Jihad. Jihad - that is imperialistic conquest and subjugation of others - is the pinnacle of worship in Islam. Thus the Second Jihad is the image of the Islamic first jihad.
The Islamic Empire that is seated in the same seats as the prior 6 empires, had ten caliphates, thus a good fit for the 10 horns.
Are the prior two posts the more complete picture that you were looking for kenisyes? Compare that to the hermeneutics you presently understand those beasts through.
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
The 7 heads the 7 kingdoms through history. The 7th head Islam, First Jihad wounded to death, then healed through western wealth transfer financing the Islamic Second Jihad. Jihad - that is imperialistic conquest and subjugation of others - is the pinnacle of worship in Islam. Thus the Second Jihad is the image of the Islamic first jihad.
The Islamic Empire that is seated in the same seats as the prior 6 empires, had ten caliphates, thus a good fit for the 10 horns.
Are the prior two posts the more complete picture that you were looking for kenisyes? Compare that to the hermeneutics you presently understand those beasts through.
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P
But wouldn't a conservative approach, be the safest approach, while within a scholarly ethnographic hermeneutic, which illustrates that enough bible prophecy has been fulfilled to herald Jesus' Second Coming TODAY?
Rather than folks saying "well I know Jesus delays His Second Coming at least 7 years by virtue of the fact that I haven't disappeared in the "pre-trib" "rapture" yet" or "oh gee, there has to be a rebuilt temple before the Second Coming" or "nah, that was all over and done with in the 1st century and Jesus' Second Coming was way back then", or "nah, it will be thousands of years before Jesus returns, because fallen mankind is going to make the world perfect, first" "oh an end-time boogieman has to come first.... and then.... yea like dat, like dat".
Do we have to look much further than the vitriol and animus displayed between brethren in this forum to see where the pop-eschatologies of futurism and partial preterism have taken the body of Christ? Let alone the abject blindness to the false prophet Muhammad and 1.5 billion antichrists as articles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad.
Rather than folks saying "well I know Jesus delays His Second Coming at least 7 years by virtue of the fact that I haven't disappeared in the "pre-trib" "rapture" yet" or "oh gee, there has to be a rebuilt temple before the Second Coming" or "nah, that was all over and done with in the 1st century and Jesus' Second Coming was way back then", or "nah, it will be thousands of years before Jesus returns, because fallen mankind is going to make the world perfect, first" "oh an end-time boogieman has to come first.... and then.... yea like dat, like dat".
Do we have to look much further than the vitriol and animus displayed between brethren in this forum to see where the pop-eschatologies of futurism and partial preterism have taken the body of Christ? Let alone the abject blindness to the false prophet Muhammad and 1.5 billion antichrists as articles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad.
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K
Personally, I like to keep all options on the table. You know that the Jewish leaders missed the fact that Jesus is the Messiah, right? It was because they did not understand the prophecies. But the Wise men found Him with astrology.
Do you remeember the Jewish leaders had other Messiah's around. Jesus predicted them for the future, and Acts 5:36-37 talks about two other guys. Sometimes, when you think you have it figured out, is when God fools you. I'd hate to be looking in the wrong place, and give up on the right one.
Do you remeember the Jewish leaders had other Messiah's around. Jesus predicted them for the future, and Acts 5:36-37 talks about two other guys. Sometimes, when you think you have it figured out, is when God fools you. I'd hate to be looking in the wrong place, and give up on the right one.
P
So do I. But if I am going to err in matters regarding the things of the Spirit of God, I always try to err on the safe side, understanding that my Lord and Savior could come this very minute! With a near unanimity of the secular world and even many of faith described:
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This is a different matter than Jews not recognizing their Messiah. This is when everyone will learn just which side we have chosen:
"God is going to invade this earth in force. But what's the good of saying you're on his side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else, something it never entered your head to conceive comes crashing in. Something so beautiful to us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left. This time it will be God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love, or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down, when it's become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realize it or not. Now, today, in this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last forever; we must take it or leave it." - C.S. Lewis
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This is a different matter than Jews not recognizing their Messiah. This is when everyone will learn just which side we have chosen:
"God is going to invade this earth in force. But what's the good of saying you're on his side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else, something it never entered your head to conceive comes crashing in. Something so beautiful to us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left. This time it will be God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love, or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down, when it's become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realize it or not. Now, today, in this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last forever; we must take it or leave it." - C.S. Lewis
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P
Amen bro! Why not today?! Come Lord Jesus come!
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
"Muslims are determined to impose their 'religion' all over Africa as well as in other continents and countries of the world. Islam has but one goal: rule the world at any cost!"
"And where are the International Human Rights Organizations?
Christians are burnt alive in Nigeria, a horrific Holocaust right in front of International indifference as denounced by Father Juan Carlos Martos on behalf of the Missionari Clarettiani via del Sacro Cuore di Maria, Rome, Italy." (link to article at United Copts)
nooooo......if that were true, jews would be christians.
snicker...mkay.
right.
a-a-a-a-and, let's see where this goes.....
then why aren't jews saved?
why do you keep connecting christians and jews as if they are both saved?
do you think they are?
because this is referring to the first Advent, and the toppling of all the Kingdoms of the metal-man, including Rome, which after having acrried out the Divine Decree for 70AD also fell.
Daniel 2:34
While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them.
did you know this was Jesus?
Daniel 2:44
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
so, let's see where you place Daniel in time, since you clearly reject preterism and futurism.
do you believe Jesus is King now?
do you believe His Kingdom is now an everlasting Kingdom?
and that it will not be left to another people?
are Christians citizens of Christ's Kingdom?
is Christ's Kingdom of this world?
right. so does this approach REQUIRE the day-year approach the way you and Ellis Sckolfield and other have manipulated it to mean FOR DANIEL 9 - which is your entire foundation?
because it's error, and it's futurism in disguise..
but let's seeeee........
ya...no full preterism if you mean no Second Advent and Resurrection.
so, now you reject futurism as well....so let's see what you actually do with Daniel 9, which you said both jews and christians understood.
JOHN WHO?
THE APOSTLE JOHN?
what a LEAP!!!
PROVE IT'S ISLAM!
rubbish! that's NOT why I EXCLUDE ISLAM as "that man of sin", "the false prophet" and the "beast" - it's because the BIBLE NEVER SAYS IT IS.
Jerusalem is the Great Harlot!
are you EVER going to address this?
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
JUDAISM IS ANTICHRIST, DENIES THE SON, HAS NOT THE FATHER.
HATES THE SON, HATES THE FATHER.
BLASPHEMES THE SON, HAS NOT THE FATHER.
JUDAISM COMMITS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN EVERY TIME THE TALMUD IS READ
WHEN ARE YOU YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS?
so do jews.
both without the Father or the Son.
WHO are they saying boasted about killing Jesus?
THE JEWS.
does Islam call MARY A WHORE LIKE JUDAISM?
.......................
when are you going to address your own heresies?
if you think Christianity and Judaism mix, you are NOT a christian
worry less about Islam and worry about your own soul
snicker...mkay.
right.
a-a-a-a-and, let's see where this goes.....
then why aren't jews saved?
why do you keep connecting christians and jews as if they are both saved?
do you think they are?
because this is referring to the first Advent, and the toppling of all the Kingdoms of the metal-man, including Rome, which after having acrried out the Divine Decree for 70AD also fell.
Daniel 2:34
While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them.
did you know this was Jesus?
Daniel 2:44
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
so, let's see where you place Daniel in time, since you clearly reject preterism and futurism.
do you believe Jesus is King now?
do you believe His Kingdom is now an everlasting Kingdom?
and that it will not be left to another people?
are Christians citizens of Christ's Kingdom?
is Christ's Kingdom of this world?
right. so does this approach REQUIRE the day-year approach the way you and Ellis Sckolfield and other have manipulated it to mean FOR DANIEL 9 - which is your entire foundation?
because it's error, and it's futurism in disguise..
but let's seeeee........
ya...no full preterism if you mean no Second Advent and Resurrection.
so, now you reject futurism as well....so let's see what you actually do with Daniel 9, which you said both jews and christians understood.
JOHN WHO?
THE APOSTLE JOHN?
what a LEAP!!!
PROVE IT'S ISLAM!
rubbish! that's NOT why I EXCLUDE ISLAM as "that man of sin", "the false prophet" and the "beast" - it's because the BIBLE NEVER SAYS IT IS.
Jerusalem is the Great Harlot!
are you EVER going to address this?
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
JUDAISM IS ANTICHRIST, DENIES THE SON, HAS NOT THE FATHER.
HATES THE SON, HATES THE FATHER.
BLASPHEMES THE SON, HAS NOT THE FATHER.
JUDAISM COMMITS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN EVERY TIME THE TALMUD IS READ
WHEN ARE YOU YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS?
so do jews.
both without the Father or the Son.
WHO are they saying boasted about killing Jesus?
THE JEWS.
does Islam call MARY A WHORE LIKE JUDAISM?
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when are you going to address your own heresies?
if you think Christianity and Judaism mix, you are NOT a christian
worry less about Islam and worry about your own soul
is Daniel 9 fulfilled
YES OR NO
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
YES OR NO
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
P
I like how preterists try to pretend the "times of the Gentiles" in Jerusalem were fulfilled in 70 AD, when the Roman GENTILES came back to whack another 1/2 to 3/4 million Jews less than 70 years later, let alone the Muhammadan Gentile conquest of Jerusalem in 639 AD. As is so easily recognized through the traditional historicist approach, along with nearly 2,000 years of Christian era history.
I like how preterists suggest that the proof of their doctrine is found in the English words "this" and "generation".
I like how preterists suggest that the proof of their doctrine is found in the English words "this" and "generation".
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