Denying the power thereof

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Apr 4, 2013
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Denying the power thereof

2nd Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Raised in pentecostal circles I was taught to believe those that had a form of godliness but denied the power thereof of were ceasationalist (those that believe the gifts such as tongues, prophecy, healing, and miracles were no longer avalibe to the believer). They denied to power/gifts of the Spirit. This is not the case
If you read the passage in context these church goers (those who have a form of godliness) were all in sin of some form or the other. They had a form of godliness yet were sinners.
So what power were they denying? The power of God to save!!!
You see Jesus did not come to save us from Hell, He came to save us from sin. Yet 90%+ within the American church would say we can never cease from sin intirely even if we are christians. Not until the resurrection when we will be delivered from our flesh. These are those that deny God's power.
Jude:24 says ''God is able to keep you from falling/ stumbling/ sinning, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy''. Those that say it is impossible to cease from sin deny this power God has to keep us from sin.
I know many of good God fearing holiness church goers who want to obey Jesus that simply do not accept the truth that we can actually overcome ALL sin here in this life. And many others who simply insinst they can continue to chronically sin with no remorse or repentance because all are sinners, and they are simply forgiven. Both of these groups deny the power of God to deliver us from the bondage of sin.
The truth is, God is able to deliver us from ALL and EVERY sin, and any deviation from this truth is denying the power thereof.

Some would argue that scripture actually teaches we can never overcome sin. The favorite verse of these sin defenders is 1 John 1:8, and 10
1John 1:8 -- If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:10 -- If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My response is this.
1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
John shows us that when we repent we are not only forgiven but also cleansed from ALL and every sin rendering us sinless. Verse 8 is spicifically speaking of those that believe they have no need of repentance at all, and verse 10 confirm we do need to repent, saying we have all sinned (past tense). There is nothing in this passage that says believers cannot cease from sin. Especially when we keep reading through chapter 2 verse 6
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
John first says DO NOT SIN, next he says IF (not when) we sin there is forgiveness, then he says those that do not obey Christ are not christians but liar, lastly He says we who name Christ ought to live as He live...that was sinlessly
Furthermore if we continue to read 1st John through chapter 3 he makes it even clearer
1st John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Could he be more clear?
#1 He says we who have the hope of resurrection will purify ourselves EVEN AS CHRIST IS PURE...once again that is sinless
#2 He says Christians are not permitted to sin
#3 He says those that do sin are not of God but of the devil
Lastly 1 John 5:18 reads ''18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.''
Those that ignore the whole of 1st John (muchless the whole of scripture) and use 1 or 2 verses out of context to teach believers cannot cease from sin are not only in gross error but false teachers perpretuating the strong delusion of 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12

The great deception, Heaven without holiness
2nd Thessalonians 2
10 Andwith all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Thegreatest most damning lie to ever spread through christianity is the idea that we can be saved from Hell without first being saved from our sin. A salvation that does not deliver us from what we are in bondage to (sin) is no salvation at all. The sad truth is most people who attend church faithfully every Sunday, being fully convince of the right standing with God through Christ are going to end up in Hell one day because they refused to receive the truth that they could be saved (from sin). Jesus did'nt come to save us from the penalty of sin He came to deliver us from sin itself.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The belief that Jesus came to deliver us from Hell, and has no power to deliver us from self, sin, or our flesh is demonic at its core. It keep people in bondage who would otherwise follow Jesus whole heartedly. It reminds me of what Jesus said to the Pharisees.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
We escape the terrors of Hell because we were delivered from sin. If we die in a state of unrepentant sinfullness we will go to Hell regardless of how long we've been in church claiming Christ as our Savior. Some people call this works salvation as if we have to earn our way to Heaven. The fact is we could never on our own account earn our way to Heaven. However we must trust in and obey what scripture teaches us. It is God who is able to keep us from sinning, and Salvation belongs to the obedient alone.
Jude:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The reason most will reject this truth is given in the text itself ''That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness''. They reject the truth that we can live a sinless life because they don't want to give up their sin, they love their sin, they take pleasure in their unrighteousness. So rather than receiving the truth that they can be saved they sooth themselves with the lie that they are saved freom Hell, and that no one can be saved from sin.



R.C. Sproul writes
''In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism. Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?
Someone might answer: "We could still sin against Him in ignorance." But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.
But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.
A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.''
Sproul admits that if we love God perfectly would could indeed obey Him perfectly, but dismissies this believing we could never love God perfectly. The teaching of this man that we cannot love God perfectly flies in the face of many passages of scripture. Here is a few.
John 17
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Ephesians 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this worldNot only can we love God perfectly, but it is the only way to have boldness on the day of judgment.

Many pastors today will tell you that as long as you live in this body you will always continue in sin, they say you will sin in word, thought and deed which contrary to the word of God. What Does the word of God say will happen if you willfully continue to sin after receiveing the knowledge of truth?

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again I shall judge my people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The Bible does not call Christians sinners, but refers to them as "saints." We have been set free from sin, delivered from sin, redeemed from sin, and have victory over sin through Jesus Christ. So I preach on campus that not everyone still sins because that is part of the gospel message - deliverance and freedom. That's a message of hope to those in bondage. The last thing I would ever preach is, "You sin and you can't help it. Your always going to sin. Not even Jesus can deliver you from sinning. There is no hope for you in this life regarding freedom from sin." Then, the gospel is reduced to a license to sin - a means through which a person can be saved from hell while not being saved from their sins. But the primary objective of the atonement was to purify us from our sins, to cleanse us from our sins, make us zealous for good works, and to live unto Jesus instead of ourselves. It is through the atonement that we love Him and when we love Him we will keep His commandments. Jesus Himself told us to go and sin no more and be ye therefore perfect. This is the fruit meet for repentance.

Are you willing to risk an eternity in torment by listening to man explain away the truth and in many way's just plain lie like the devil so you will feel good in your sin? It's your choice but God does not wink at sin.

Remember that many men will try to explain away the word of God to suit their desires and say it really means something other than what is written, But again what does the word of God say?


We are no longer servants of sin, but servants to righteousness, wow so cool.
If a preacher is not preaching "live sinless" then they are inevitably preaching "live sinful." There is no middle ground. The aim of our life is either to live free from sin or else we are consenting to living sinful lives.

The power of God unto salvation is His Grace working in us, enabling us to live completely free from sin. Don't deny it to your peril.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#2
I think the rest of the chapter makes it plain it is God's Word and power that produces the necessary fruit of holiness.


2Ti 3:5-175 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth:men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further:for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured:but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
(CWSB)
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#3
I am so grateful to have a perfect, sinless Saviour who died in my place.

Can't imagine being sinless in this life. In fact, I have found that not confessing my sins is the surest way to be far from God.

Hope this sinless perfection is working for you. Let us know when you need some support because you realize that you have sin, say like "PRIDE" in your life.

And you can always confess your sin, and remember that Jesus knows, cares and understands.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

The promise for being sinless, is when we see Christ face to face NOT now when we see through a glass darkly, as KJV so elegantly puts it.

"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 2 John 3:2

I am looking forward to that day!
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#4
We deny the Power thereof when we deny the Power of Christ's Blood, His Cross, to save all those He died for !
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#5
Denying the power thereof

2nd Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
It looks like these are Christians in name only. On the outside they appear to be Christians but not on the inside. It would be easy to show how this list shows each of the 10 commandments. The gospel is to work from the inside out, not just an outward show.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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I am so grateful to have a perfect, sinless Saviour who died in my place.

Can't imagine being sinless in this life. In fact, I have found that not confessing my sins is the surest way to be far from God.

Hope this sinless perfection is working for you. Let us know when you need some support because you realize that you have sin, say like "PRIDE" in your life.

And you can always confess your sin, and remember that Jesus knows, cares and understands.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

The promise for being sinless, is when we see Christ face to face NOT now when we see through a glass darkly, as KJV so elegantly puts it.

"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 2 John 3:2

I am looking forward to that day!
If you refuse to forsake your sin here and now, you wont be glorious to see Jesus face to face it will be terrifying.

2nd Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
This is the most important appointment of your life. What you did yesterday, today or anytime in the future will have eternal consequences. Yet many in the Body of Christ do not live with the judgment seat of Christ as a reality in their day to day lives. We should all be living every moment in light of this meeting, we need to live our lives with an eternal perspective.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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It looks like these are Christians in name only. On the outside they appear to be Christians but not on the inside. It would be easy to show how this list shows each of the 10 commandments. The gospel is to work from the inside out, not just an outward show.
Amen, just like most in the church
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#9
Our salvation is through faith in Christ and his righteousness, not our own. Anything else is works based salvation and not biblical.

If you refuse to forsake your sin here and now, you wont be glorious to see Jesus face to face it will be terrifying.

2nd Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
This is the most important appointment of your life. What you did yesterday, today or anytime in the future will have eternal consequences. Yet many in the Body of Christ do not live with the judgment seat of Christ as a reality in their day to day lives. We should all be living every moment in light of this meeting, we need to live our lives with an eternal perspective.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#10
Our salvation is through faith in Christ and his righteousness, not our own. Anything else is works based salvation and not biblical.
Obedience to Jesus is works? This is the type of thinking that will end you up in Hell

Luke 6:[SUP]46 [/SUP]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#11
Wow. Good job. Not!
Obedience to Christ is done out of thankfulness to our Lord and Saviour. Our salvation isn't dependent on it.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#12
Wow. Good job. Not!
Obedience to Christ is done out of thankfulness to our Lord and Saviour. Our salvation isn't dependent on it.
You actually think you can live in rebellion to Jesus and still be saved?
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#13
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#14
I didn't say that. We are both saints and sinners. Saints because of the Holy Spirit living in us, making us more and more like Jesus (and Christ's righteousness covering us outwardly). Sinners because we're still fallen but redeemed. We will only be sinless when we're made new creations and given our new bodies to spend eternity with our Lord and Saviour.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#15
1st Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornication, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Pretty clear, there is no if, and, or buts, those that live in sin will not make it to heaven.

Colossians 3
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for you serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We that serve the Lord shall receive our inheritance, but those that commit sin shall also receive what they deserve. God will not turn a blind eye to your sin, while judging others for theirs, for there is no respect with God. He treats us all equally.

Ephesians 5
1 Be you therefore followers of God as dear children,
2 And walk in love, as Christ also loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not once be named among you, as becometh saint;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
The scripture is clear, no sinner has any inheritance in the kingdom of God nor of Christ. It also emphatically states that you should not allow yourself to be deceived by vain talkers, such as those that promote the OSAS doctrine. If you partake in the sins of the world you will also partake in the wrath of God with them.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#16
I didn't say that. We are both saints and sinners. Saints because of the Holy Spirit living in us, making us more and more like Jesus (and Christ's righteousness covering us outwardly). Sinners because we're still fallen but redeemed. We will only be sinless when we're made new creations and given our new bodies to spend eternity with our Lord and Saviour.
We are already new creations.

2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#17
What does the bible teaches about those that claim Christ name, yet continue in sin.
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that say unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name did many wonderful works?
23 And I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These are the words of Jesus Himself. He declares there will be people that claim him as Lord, yet he will profess to them, "I never knew you, you who work iniquity" (or make it a practice of committing sin). Not all that believe Jesus is Lord are truly saved. Not even everyone that honestly believes they are truly saved is on their way to Heaven. But only those that do the will of the Father which is in Heaven. Jesus also said that the way to righteousness is narrow and few will find it.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye into the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be there be which go thereat.
14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
My question to you would be: Is there unrepentant sin in your life? Do you obey the will of God or your own flesh? When you meet Jesus on judgment day will He say, well done good and faithful servant or depart from me I never knew you, you who practice sin?
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#18
 
Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 know you not ,that whom you yield yourselves servant to obey, his servant you are whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?
Short but not so sweet. You that live in sin are servants of sin, and not of God. Jesus said in Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13 that you cannot serve two masters.
 
 


Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God: but in works they do deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

People who support the teachings of Eternal Security, OSAS, and or Hyper Grace say that as long as we have confessed Christ as our Savior, we will not be judged for our sin. But Paul says that there were some that profess they know God but in work, through their disobedience to God's word, they do deny Him. Jesus said in Matthew 10:33 whoever denies Me, I will deny him before My Father.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him I will also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

So whether by our confession or our actions if we deny Christ, He will deny us. Living a lifestyle of sin is denying Him regardless of our confessions of faith.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#19
Please learn to read the Bible in context. That would answer the majority of what you're discussing. Also, we aren't fully new creations yet, we 'become' new creations (it's an ongoing process until Christ returns a second time).
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#20
I heard the Gospel in 1982 after growing up in a Irish catholic home. Knowing full well the fear of God and the guilt of sin. Hearing the good news of grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ was like a million Christmasses for a kid!!! Eph. 2:8-9 says our salvation is by grace that we are saved through faith...that its not of ourselves...it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast...
His workmanship created IN Christ UNTO good works. John 15 is all about how we can't do anything unless we are vitally united to the Vine (Jesus) We r no longer under condemnation. :D Jesus took our sin and guilt.

Our salvation is a gift., eternal life....eternal is forever. Sealed by the Holy Spirit. :) There is no fear in Love., perfect love casts out fear. God deals with us in Love and wants us to be conformed into Jesus image. Why do Christians want to believe that God is holding our good works over our heads?? That He is ready to Zap us when we have a sinful thought?

We never were saved by our good works and we r not kept by our good works. If we can lose our salvation and then be good again and gain it back, is that not working for salvaton again and again through our lives on earth? Never having the peace of His blood bought transaction.

YIKES...this is a religion of works like my catholic religion. You work - you get. You suffer - you get something - respect for your own "holiness" This is not the Good News. Jesus didn't die for us to have another religion.. He died for us to have a relationship to be sons and daughters. He loves me at my best and at my worst...loves me the same because His love is not based on my behavior., it's based on His Son Jesus behavior..