Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?

[RedTent]

I have just read a report that says that it is prophesized that Jews will return to the promised land. I have talked with a couple who spent months working there at the organization that welcomes them. Most haven't a clue that they are fulfilling bible prophecy. For most, God does not play an important role in their life.

This report says that it is God's will that they return, and the devil is solidly against that return and is behind all working against that return. They say we are to let God take care of their disobedience, but still be on God's side so we help with that return. It also says that you can spot those on the devil's side and on God's side by how they stand on this issue. If they are for God's ways, they will support the Jews returning.

I read another report that said God is still working to punish Jews for their disobedience. God took away the leadership of the Christian church from them back in 70 when James, brother of Jesus and head of our church was killed and the Jewish people were almost wiped out by Rome. At that time gentiles were made head of the church, but that will end according to prophesy. Jews will again be made head of the church, but it isn't going to be done with a sword. We are not to work for that to happen, but let God take care of it. We are not to work for the return of the Jews to the promised land.

What do you think?

 

[Elin]

I have just read a report that says that it is prophesized that Jews will return to the promised land. I have talked with a couple who spent months working there at the organization that welcomes them. Most haven't a clue that they are fulfilling bible prophecy. For most, God does not play an important role in their life.

This report says that it is God's will that they return, and the devil is solidly against that return and is behind all working against that return. They say we are to let God take care of their disobedience, but still be on God's side so we help with that return. It also says that you can spot those on the devil's side and on God's side by how they stand on this issue. If they are for God's ways, they will support the Jews returning.

I read another report that said God is still working to punish Jews for their disobedience. God took away the leadership of the Christian church from them back in 70 when James, brother of Jesus and head of our church was killed and the Jewish people were almost wiped out by Rome. At that time gentiles were made head of the church, but that will end according to prophesy. Jews will again be made head of the church, but it isn't going to be done with a sword. We are not to work for that to happen, but let God take care of it. We are not to work for the return of the Jews to the promised land.

What do you think?

First of all, those measures of truth are rather self-serving.

Secondly, God has fulfilled his promise to the Jews of a land when they possessed it under Joshua (Josh 21:43-45) and fully occupied it under Solomon (1 Kgs 4:21, 24-25).

The revelation of Jesus (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, shows that the everlasting possession which God promised the patriarchs was a promise of heavenly land, not earthly land (Heb 11:13-16).

Where in Scripture is there another promise of land?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

No flesh has any right to even live at all.

How then is it possible that any promise given Abram or Abraham was given to his flesh by fleshly birthright, rather than to his spirit of Faith?

 

[4enlightment]

I have just read a report that says that it is prophesized that Jews will return to the promised land. I have talked with a couple who spent months working there at the organization that welcomes them. Most haven't a clue that they are fulfilling bible prophecy. For most, God does not play an important role in their life.

This report says that it is God's will that they return, and the devil is solidly against that return and is behind all working against that return. They say we are to let God take care of their disobedience, but still be on God's side so we help with that return. It also says that you can spot those on the devil's side and on God's side by how they stand on this issue. If they are for God's ways, they will support the Jews returning.

I read another report that said God is still working to punish Jews for their disobedience. God took away the leadership of the Christian church from them back in 70 when James, brother of Jesus and head of our church was killed and the Jewish people were almost wiped out by Rome. At that time gentiles were made head of the church, but that will end according to prophesy. Jews will again be made head of the church, but it isn't going to be done with a sword. We are not to work for that to happen, but let God take care of it. We are not to work for the return of the Jews to the promised land.

What do you think?

Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

June 2013 will mark the 35th anniversary of the lifting of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ infamous ban on people of African ancestry, which denied them full participation in Church affairs and priesthood responsibilities. Since the Church’s inception as an organized religion in 1830, generations of mostly white Latter-day Saints have been taught some version of negative white racial frames about black people as spiritually unworthy and destined to be in bondage to white folk due to the “curse” of Ham.

Mormon Church Finally Notes Black Elders, Still Offers No Apology | (A)theologies | Religion Dispatches

Hebrews 6:1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

If we move by the flesh, we will be judge also by that way; but we suppose to be lead by the spirit....I'm just going to let you know that the word Jews has derived from Judah which means," praise".

Judah - Smith's Bible Dictionary Online

 

[didymos]

Israel is a highly secularized country today, just a small percentage of its population still believes in God. Honestly I often wonder if this nation can still claim the title of 'chosen people' and all the rights and that go with it. What if you don't believe anymore in the God who made you promises?' If the nation state of Israel (and it's location on the map) isn't based anymore on the faith in God, what CAN it be based on?

 

[RedTent]

No flesh has any right to even live at all.

How then is it possible that any promise given Abram or Abraham was given to his flesh by fleshly birthright, rather than to his spirit of Faith?

I thought that spiritual interpretation of the bible went out with literal only interpretation.

 

[RedTent]

I thought that spiritual interpretation of the bible went out with literal only interpretation.

oops, That should read spiritual only interpretation of the bible went out with literal only interpretation.

 

[crossnote]

No other people have been displaced from their homeland for nearly 1900 years, kept their identity, persecuted wherever they went and returned to their homeland against all odds (all according to Scripture) and are still vehemently hated. It's all too much a coincidence not to be by Divine appointment.
I vote yes.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

it isn't the promised land any more...the land promise was already fulfilled...

and after the jews lost their privilege as God's special nation...the land is now available to anyone who wants it...

 

[didymos]

it isn't the promised land any more...the land promise was already fulfilled...

and after the jews lost their privilege as God's special nation...the land is now available to anyone who wants it...

... our stance in the peace process (as christians) has always been determined by our support for 'Israel' and its claims. If the nation loses it privileged status, we could finally begin making a realistic, unbiased plan for peace in the middle east.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

... our stance in the peace process (as christians) has always been determined by our support for 'Israel' and its claims. If the nation loses it privileged status, we could finally begin making a realistic, unbiased plan for peace in the middle east.

well we should still support any state that respects human rights and democratic process...

 

[didymos]

well we should still support any state that respects human rights and democratic process...

... true... though I have my doubts when it comes to Israel.

 

[crossnote]

... true... though I have my doubts when it comes to Israel.

But you have confidence with Egypt, Syria, Iran, and the Gaza strip?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I thought that spiritual interpretation of the bible went out with literal only interpretation.

Do you understand this:

If anyone means those promises were made to the flesh that is passed by the flesh of those who received those promises, which if you do mean that, then I must respectfully disagree.

All flesh died in Adam. Since Adam, God has only respected a right spirit of faith toward him. And those promises were not given to Abraham's, Isaac's, or Jacob's body of flesh so that they could be passed by fleshly birth, but instead they were given to the spirit of a right faith, independent of spiritually dead human flesh.

Anything not holy can only be spiritually dead. Even the Law demonstrates that.

The only reason that God used the flesh to pass what appeared to be that promise being passed through that flesh was to have a clear way for all to be able to identify the one with the true right to those promises when he would arrive.

And that has been confused as proof that the promises did belong to the flesh, but the reality is that they never did. They couldn't.

All flesh died in Adam in the spiritual sense. All flesh corrupted it's way. No flesh is holy and anything not holy, even by that Old Law, is declared to be spiritually dead. God allowed that failure of Israel to keep that Old Law Covenant to demonstrate that spiritually dead state by law, exposing it by law, that the sin in that spiritually dead flesh would be shown to have full right to kill that flesh and God proved just.

Thus all would be proved dead and God's grace could then step in for all, both for the Jews and for the Gentiles.

 

[crossnote]

Do you understand this:

If anyone means those promises were made to the flesh that is passed by the flesh of those who received those promises, which if you do mean that, then I must respectfully disagree.

All flesh died in Adam. Since Adam, God has only respected a right spirit of faith toward him. And those promises were not given to Abraham's, Isaac's, or Jacob's body of flesh so that they could be passed by fleshly birth, but instead they were given to the spirit of a right faith, independent of spiritually dead human flesh.

Anything not holy can only be spiritually dead. Even the Law demonstrates that.

The only reason that God used the flesh to pass what appeared to be that promise being passed through that flesh was to have a clear way for all to be able to identify the one with the true right to those promises when he would arrive.

And that has been confused as proof that the promises did belong to the flesh, but the reality is that they never did. They couldn't.

All flesh died in Adam in the spiritual sense. All flesh corrupted it's way. No flesh is holy and anything not holy, even by that Old Law, is declared to be spiritually dead. God allowed that failure of Israel to keep that Old Law Covenant to demonstrate that spiritually dead state by law, exposing it by law, that the sin in that spiritually dead flesh would be shown to have full right to kill that flesh and God proved just.

Thus all would be proved dead and God's grace could then step in for all, both for the Jews and for the Gentiles.

Oh, accordingly I suppose Jesus was not a Jew according to the flesh and his Incarnation was just imaginary since hey.,after all 'all flesh died in Adam' according to you. Those promises had a literal fulfillment unless you deny Christ came in the flesh.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Oh, accordingly I suppose Jesus was not a Jew according to the flesh and his Incarnation was just imaginary since hey.,after all 'all flesh died in Adam' according to you. Those promises had a literal fulfillment unless you deny Christ came in the flesh.

You are blowing smoke out of the emotions of your flesh. Stop and calm your spirit to think.

You know the real truth, that Jesus had no fleshly father.

Clear evidence then that his being related back to David through Joseph (his step-father) was purely to identify him as that seed of promise by the spirit of faith.

For their promises did not pass through their women but by the natural birth father's implanted seed.


Human birth passes human flesh. That flesh was unholy and dead since Adam, and thus as God cannot reward that which is unholy, unholiness having no place in his presence, then God looked to find a modicum of faith in man, by a right spirit in each man which he could declare clean and able to be rewarded. But in Jesus, that sinful flesh was not passed as God was his true and only Father.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

What does it really mean that God hardened their hearts?

It means he stopped disciplining them as sons, as we saw he did with Israel over and over again. God would no longer try to discipline them as he had in the past but would now give it to another nation and through that nation incite to jealousy as many of them as might be saved. And that is only a remnant.

Hebrews 12:7-8 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

They did not endure chastising and benefited not from it. Thus God divorced them and set them on the same level as the rest of the world. If they want that discipline as a son they must humble themselves to see that their flesh merits them nothing above any other peoples.

 

[RedTent]

You are blowing smoke out of the emotions of your flesh. Stop and calm your spirit to think.

You know the real truth, that Jesus had no fleshly father.

Clear evidence then that his being related back to David through Joseph (his step-father) was purely to identify him as that seed of promise by the spirit of faith.

For their promises did not pass through their women but by the natural birth father's implanted seed.


Human birth passes human flesh. That flesh was unholy and dead since Adam, and thus as God cannot reward that which is unholy, unholiness having no place in his presence, then God looked to find a modicum of faith in man, by a right spirit in each man which he could declare clean and able to be rewarded. But in Jesus, that sinful flesh was not passed as God was his true and only Father.

There were men in the bible who preached this philosophy of only the spiritual being real, and God said it wasn't the truth for He created the earth, too. You use a lot of human reason to arrive at these things, but God's thoughts don't always follow this kind of thinking. God uses the fleshly to explain the spiritual. Spiritual things are shown through fleshly happenings. The very word "faith" that you have used, in the understanding of ancient languages included walking and doing. Until we pass on into the next part of our life, the flesh and the spirit are connected.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

There were men in the bible who preached this philosophy of only the spiritual being real, and God said it wasn't the truth for He created the earth, too. You use a lot of human reason to arrive at these things, but God's thoughts don't always follow this kind of thinking. God uses the fleshly to explain the spiritual. Spiritual things are shown through fleshly happenings. The very word "faith" that you have used, in the understanding of ancient languages included walking and doing. Until we pass on into the next part of our life, the flesh and the spirit are connected.

There you are misapplying scripture to make it appear what I said is wrong. God loves man, of course he does but he will not bless corruption with incoruption as your not Biblical and definitely unlawful premises imply.

1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

you are running out of ammunition but keep hurling your non-Biblical missiles, by all means until you do.

And regardless of how you try to rationalize faith, what it does is born of a man's spirit out of love, rather than just as a work of the flesh.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

by the way, you might be inclined to think that inciting them to jealousy through a people who were not a people but now are, is yet God disciplining them all as sons, but you'd be wrong.

Paul tells us that is what God used them to do toward Gentiles when they were without discipline as sons.

Romans 11:30-31 "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."