WHAT SIGN/S DID JESUS GAVE REGARDING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE?

[watcher2013]

The disciples in the book of Matthew, Mark and Luke asked the Lord Jesus as to When will be the destruction of the Temple:

Setting aside what you have been taught....WHAT SIGN/S DID JESUS GAVE REGARDING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE IN THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES:

Mat 24:1 And Jesuswent out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.v2 AndJesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, Thereshall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.v3 And as he sat upon the mount ofOlives, the disciples came unto himprivately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shallbe the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mar 13:1 And as hewent out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! v2 AndJesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shallnot be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives overagainst the temple, Peter and Jamesand John and Andrew asked him privately, v4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the signwhen all these things shall be fulfilled?
Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it wasadorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, v:6 As forthese things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall notbe left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v:7 Andthey asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what signwill there be when these things shall come to pass?

 

[oldhermit]

Posted by request of thread host.

I. Jesus Foretells the Destruction of the Temple.

A. Those present were Jesus, Peter, Andrew, James and John.

B. Combining all three gospel accounts we see there are four question asked by these four men in response to Jesus' revelation about the destruction of the temple.
1. When will this be?
2. What will be the sign when this is about to take place?
3. What will be the sign of your coming?
4. What will be the sign of the end of this age? Everything that follows in this chapter is in direct response to these four questions.

C. Context specifics: These things are
1. Event specific - The destruction of Jerusalem
2. Time specific - That generation
3. Geographically specific - Jerusalem/Judea
4. Target specific - The temple
5. Instrument Specific - The Roman Armies

D. Jesus presents five deceptive temporal indicators which he tells them are not relevant to the time of the destruction of the temple. He has already warned them in verse four not to be deceived about the nature of these things.
1. There will be false Messiahs. We know that these were numerous in Judea prior to the siege of Jerusalem.
2. There will be wars and rumors of war. Before the fall of Jerusalem, the entire world was at war with Rome.
3. There will be famines. These raged in Judea in the mid first century, Acts 11:28.
4. There will be earthquakes. There were many in the region of Asia Minor, Horn, etc... during the reign of Nero. Mt. Fesuvious erupted in 79 AD killing an estimated 16,000 people.
5. Pestilance - All of these were things they would witness but, Jesus tells them they are not to be deceived by these thing for they were only the beginning of birth pains.

E. Relevant events that would precede the destruction. These would specifically target Christians.
1. The apostles would be delivered up to death. "Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and all of you shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake." Peter, James, and Paul, all died under Nero before 70 AD.
2. There would be global opposition to Christianity and betrayal. "And then
shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another."
3. There would be false prophets. "many false prophets shall arise."
4. There would be apostasy. "And shall lead many astray."
There was much evidence of this during the days of Paul and Peter. 2Pt. 3, Gal. 1, Ac. 20, 1Jn. 4:1-6, Jude 17&19, Heb. 6:4-8.
5. There would be an increase in lawlessness. We see the fulfillment of this in Paul's writings. "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way." 2Thes. 2:7.
6. Love would grow cold. This was the charge that Jesus levels against the Church at Ephesus in Rev. 2:4 "But I have this against you, that you have left your first love." There would first be the global expansion of the gospel. We know this happened during within the life time of Paul.
a. "If indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister," Col. 1:23. Colossians was written between 62-64.
b. "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. "Romans was written in 60.
c. "For the word of the Lord has sounded forth from you, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith toward God has gone forth, so that we have no need to say anything." 1Thes. 1:8. 1Thesselonians was written in 63.

F. Jesus then gives them some revealed indicators that specifically point to the end that he spoke of in verses one and two and with this he issues a warning to them. "When therefore you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who reads understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains." This would be an event that at least some of these four men would witness. In Luke 21:20, Luke records an even clearer picture of this. "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near." This gives definition to the abomination of desolation Jesus speaks of in Matthew's account of which Daniel 9 speaks.

 

[Kerry]

The disciples in the book of Matthew, Mark and Luke asked the Lord Jesus as to When will be the destruction of the Temple:

Setting aside what you have been taught....WHAT SIGN/S DID JESUS GAVE REGARDING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE IN THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES:

Mat 24:1 And Jesuswent out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.v2 AndJesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, Thereshall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.v3 And as he sat upon the mount ofOlives, the disciples came unto himprivately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shallbe the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mar 13:1 And as hewent out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! v2 AndJesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shallnot be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives overagainst the temple, Peter and Jamesand John and Andrew asked him privately, v4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the signwhen all these things shall be fulfilled?
Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it wasadorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, v:6 As forthese things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall notbe left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v:7 Andthey asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what signwill there be when these things shall come to pass?

Exactly why I do not like the new idiot version. The world does not end only the age as the KJ so eloquently puts it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Posted by request of thread host.

SO the host needed someone to post? wow.

So much wrong with your theory.

Nation against nation.

Why your theory is in error..
As you said, the world (actually not the whole world. But the world in the European and middle east) was at war with rome. Not with each other.

Kingdom against kingdom

There was one kingdom in the time period. Rome. There were no other kingdom at war with rome.

Wars and rumors of wars

The world was at war with rome (or technically the other way around) It was not wars. it was a continuous war.

As for the birth pangs. Do you not understand the significants of these words (begining of sorrows) Maybe not since you have not been in labor. But when you get is a small contractions, far apart. then as labor progresses. The intensity of the pain gets exponentially larger, and the number of pains, and length inbetween these pains gets exponentially shorter. until they are right on top of each other and the most pain is felt.

thus to interpret properly.

The things Jesus spoke of, natural disasters (earthquakes) Famines (hunger) Disease will start to increase in severity and number on an exponential level. And they do not only happen in one place as you are trying to show. But in various places. In other words, they will be felt all over the world.

Now take your interpretation of 40 years. They did not start slow. And increase in velocity or number. The only way for this is to happen is if these birth pangs were already ongoing at the time Jesus said this,. He did not mention it.

Yes there were false prophets and christs. But look at the last century or two. How many more>? And increasing exponentially all the time (same with natural disasters, Famines are getting worste. Science believes by the 50s, there will not be enough food to feed the world. many will starve. And diseases? look at all the diseases we are finding every year. each more severe than the one before (birth pangs)

Then the things you forgot to mention

1. He who endures to the end will be saved? saved from what?
2. Great tribulation, More severe than before it and never repeated after (Tribulation means affliction or distress, it could come from war. From environmental, economic and geologic circumstances) Again. WW2 made what happen in the 70's ad look like a picnic. So the ad 70's could not be the great tribulation. If it was. Jesus lied.
3. The great tribulation so severe in its power. that all life on earth is threatened to become extinct. Nothing like this occured in ad 70

finally, as I have mentioned so many times.

An abomination is an idol or unclean thing. A desolation is where something is made uninhabitable, or left desolate (unclean)

A desolation by an army is a desolation which destroys something completely

A desolation by an abomination is a religious holy place with is left unclean, or desolate by the fact an idol or unclean thing is brough into its area, and sacrificed.

There are not the same. so NO jesus did not sat the abomination of desolation was the destruction by rome. That would not be an abomination.

Finally. The end of those things would be the return of Christ.

If all these things occured in 70 AD. Why did CHrist not return. Evidently, he not onlu lied about the abomination. The birth pangs, The tribulation. But he lied about returning also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly why I do not like the new idiot version. The world does not end only the age as the KJ so eloquently puts it.

The KJ is not the only version which properly interprets it Age. However, I agree. the word "world" is a gross misinterpretation of the greek.

αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ, poët. ἡ: apocop. acc. αἰῶ (properly αἰϜών, aevum, v. αἰεί):—a period of existence:
1. ones lifetime, life, Hom. and Att. Poets.
2. an age, generation, Aesch.; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, Dem.
3. a long space of time, an age, ἀπʼ αἰῶνος of old, for ages, Hes., N.T.; τὸν διʼ αἰῶνος χρόνον for ever, Aesch.; ἅπαντα τὸν αἰ. Lycurg.
4. a definite space of time, an era, epoch, age, period, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. to ὁ μέλλων, N.T.:—hence its usage in pl., εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας for ever, Ib.


Liddell, H. G. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Nothing in there which would denote world.

even the word generation in vs 34 does not only mean that persons lifetime, It can mean a few things

γενεά, ᾶς, Ion. γενεή, ῆς, ἡ, Ep. dat. γενεῆφι: (γίγνομαι):
I. of the persons in a family,
1. race, stock, family, Hom., etc.; Πριάμου γ. Il.; ἐκ γενεῆς according to his family, Ib.; γενεῇ by birth-right, Od.; γενεὴν Αἰτωλός by descent, Il.:—of horses, a breed, Ib.:—generally, γενεήν in kind, Hdt.:—also a tribe, nation, Περσῶν γ. Aesch.
2. a race, generation, οἵηπερ φύλλων γενεὴ τοιήδε καὶ ἀνδρῶν Il.; δύο γενεαὶ ἀνθρώπων Ib.
3. offspring, Orac. ap. Hdt.; and of a single person, Soph.
II. of time or place in reference to birth:
1. a birth-place, γενεὴ ἐπὶ λίμνῃ Γυγαίῃ Il.; of an eagles eyrie, Od.
2. age, time of life, esp. in phrases γενεῇ νεώτατος, πρεσβύτατος youngest, eldest, in age, or by birth, Hom.
3. time of birth, ἐκ γενεῆς Hdt.; ἀπὸ γ. Xen.


Liddell, H. G. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

He could just as correctly interpreted be saying, this age will not pass away. Infering the fact, in answer to their question. This age will not end until all these things take place. Then the end (of the age) will come

remember Paul had to answer this same confusion. People who though the end came. because of the same confusion. He had to show it would not end until certian things happened also. This confusion is nothing new.

 

[watcher2013]

EG... Oldhermit sent me the message privately...and I suggested that he/she post it in the thread for everyone to see...I do not see something wrong with it...

Reading your response..ALL you did was to claim that oldhermit was wrong without even answering the thread question...It is your chance to redeem yourself...

WHAT SIGN DID JESUS GAVE, WHEN THE DISCIPLES ASKED HIM ABOUT THE WHEN IS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE?

 

[4enlightment]

The disciples in the book of Matthew, Mark and Luke asked the Lord Jesus as to When will be the destruction of the Temple:

Setting aside what you have been taught....WHAT SIGN/S DID JESUS GAVE REGARDING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE IN THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES:

Mat 24:1 And Jesuswent out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.v2 AndJesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, Thereshall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.v3 And as he sat upon the mount ofOlives, the disciples came unto himprivately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shallbe the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mar 13:1 And as hewent out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! v2 AndJesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shallnot be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives overagainst the temple, Peter and Jamesand John and Andrew asked him privately, v4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the signwhen all these things shall be fulfilled?
Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it wasadorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, v:6 As forthese things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall notbe left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. v:7 Andthey asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what signwill there be when these things shall come to pass?

John 2:21But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Luke 14:11For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

1 corinth 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Luke 20:17Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written: “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone’?

Acts 4:11Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’

Matthew 7:25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Romans 15:20It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.

1 Corinthians 10:4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Peter 2:8and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

Matthew 11:6Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG... Oldhermit sent me the message privately...and I suggested that he/she post it in the thread for everyone to see...I do not see something wrong with it...

Reading your response..ALL you did was to claim that oldhermit was wrong without even answering the thread question...It is your chance to redeem yourself...

WHAT SIGN DID JESUS GAVE, WHEN THE DISCIPLES ASKED HIM ABOUT THE WHEN IS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE?

All I did was show him how his points were in error. and why I can not agree with them.

as for the question to your thread. I already answered it in another thread. why should I bring it here?

the destruction in was already prophesied in daniel. jesus mentioning daniel should have awoken the disciples minds to that aspect of truth. Whether it did or not is unknown. Many things were hidden from them until after Christ rose form the dead.

after messiah gets cut off. The city and sanctuary will get destroyed. It is obvious the disciples did not quite get this yet (God was still hiding things because it was still a mystery, until after the resurrection when jesus opened their minds) the mere fact they even asked shows they did not understand it.

thus jesus did not have to answer that question, So what he did was answer the other two parts of the christion

1. The sign of your coming
2. The signs of the end of the age

which Jesus did. Non of the signs jesus gave were for the destruction of the temple. After the ressurection. When the peoples eyes were opened to the "mystery" they would know.

 

[watcher2013]

John 2:21But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Luke 14:11For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

1 corinth 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Luke 20:17Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written: “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone’?

Acts 4:11Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’

Matthew 7:25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Romans 15:20It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.

1 Corinthians 10:4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Peter 2:8and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

Matthew 11:6Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

a clear response of taking it out of context.

 

[watcher2013]

Pre-tribbers... Mid tribbers and Post tribbers your comments are mostly welcome...

 

[thecreationtutor]

why post as a question, when you fully intend to tell us why - just thread title this as a statement

 

[watcher2013]

why post as a question, when you fully intend to tell us why - just thread title this as a statement

Do you have something against the question?

Why not share us your view on what signs do you think Jesus gave?

 

[watcher2013]

many have argued about the timing...Pre trib, Mid Trib and Post trib....

But why can't we get an answer to this question?

 

[john832]

EG... Oldhermit sent me the message privately...and I suggested that he/she post it in the thread for everyone to see...I do not see something wrong with it...

Reading your response..ALL you did was to claim that oldhermit was wrong without even answering the thread question...It is your chance to redeem yourself...

WHAT SIGN DID JESUS GAVE, WHEN THE DISCIPLES ASKED HIM ABOUT THE WHEN IS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE?

OK, what sign? Tell us.