Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".



Can a Christian commit a sin such as theft, keep the stolen property yet maintain his salvation? Or must he do "works meet for repentance" by making reparation by returning the stolen property to its rightful owner or else be lost?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".



Can a Christian commit a sin such as theft, keep the stolen property yet maintain his salvation? Or must he do "works meet for repentance" by making reparation by returning the stolen property to its rightful owner or else be lost?

If a Christian is under law.. No he could not. For a sacrifice would have to be given to make propitiation and pay the price of redemption for that sin. Thus he would lose salvation until that sacrifice is given.

If a Christian is under grace. No. He never earned it to begin with, He can never do anything to keep it. If we could do something to earn salvation. Then we would no longer need grace.

As for repenting. It means a change of heart. One can not repent. Then unrepent, Then repent again They either repented and agree with God that sin is sin and has caused them to be dead (the penalty of sin) or they have not.

This repent over and over and over every time you sin is not from God. and not even possible for you can not even know every sin you ever commited to continue to repent.

 

[breno785au]

Even after I was born again I continued to look at pornography for years, I hated it and was always sorry and trying to find reasons why I couldn't give it up. Then one day I realised and confessed to God I haven't actually repented from it. That's where I found my breakthrough.

 

[SeaBass]

If a Christian is under grace. No. He never earned it to begin with, He can never do anything to keep it. If we could do something to earn salvation. Then we would no longer need grace.

So for clarities sake, you are saying the Christian can keep what he has stolen and not have to repent. For if he repents he would be trying to earn his salvation, correct?

 

[SeaBass]

Even after I was born again I continued to look at pornography for years, I hated it and was always sorry and trying to find reasons why I couldn't give it up. Then one day I realised and confessed to God I haven't actually repented from it. That's where I found my breakthrough.

So the issue is can a Christian commit a sin, or continue in a sin (such as viewing pornography) unrepentant yet maintain his salvation?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Paul says: "Godly sorrow worketh reptance unto salvation not to be repented of". (2 Corinthians 7.10)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So for clarities sake, you are saying the Christian can keep what he has stolen and not have to repent. For if he repents he would be trying to earn his salvation, correct?

for clarity sake.

Are we under law or under grace?

Why do you ignore what I said?

 

[Selihah]

If a Christian is under law.. No he could not. For a sacrifice would have to be given to make propitiation and pay the price of redemption for that sin. Thus he would lose salvation until that sacrifice is given.

If a Christian is under grace. No. He never earned it to begin with, He can never do anything to keep it. If we could do something to earn salvation. Then we would no longer need grace.

As for repenting. It means a change of heart. One can not repent. Then unrepent, Then repent again They either repented and agree with God that sin is sin and has caused them to be dead (the penalty of sin) or they have not.

This repent over and over and over every time you sin is not from God. and not even possible for you can not even know every sin you ever commited to continue to repent.

There is no such commandment no, there never was such law calling for sacrifice for presumtive sin, not one, zero, nada, none. There was only one recourse and that was repentance. Its what separates the wicked man from a righteous man. A wicked stays down and wallows in his sin like a pig. A righteous man though may stumble and fall, gets back up again and seeks forgiveness and turns back (repents) to the path.

 

[SeaBass]

for clarity sake.

Are we under law or under grace?

Why do you ignore what I said?

We are under grace, but grace is not void of law. If there were no law, everyone would be perfectly sinless.

 

[RedTent]

If a Christian is under law.. No he could not. For a sacrifice would have to be given to make propitiation and pay the price of redemption for that sin. Thus he would lose salvation until that sacrifice is given.

If a Christian is under grace. No. He never earned it to begin with, He can never do anything to keep it. If we could do something to earn salvation. Then we would no longer need grace.

As for repenting. It means a change of heart. One can not repent. Then unrepent, Then repent again They either repented and agree with God that sin is sin and has caused them to be dead (the penalty of sin) or they have not.

This repent over and over and over every time you sin is not from God. and not even possible for you can not even know every sin you ever commited to continue to repent.

If we are under law for salvation, we would have to obey every law, we would have to be Holy even without the knowledge of sin we inherited from Adam. We would not have Christ available to us. We are under grace through the forgiveness available to us through Christ.

Your point is that once we repent, it is for everything and never should be repeated? Are you saying the definition of repent is to recognize sin? I know of no scripture to support your interpretation, please give some?

I think scripture points out that we are to put on Christ daily, and walk with Him all we can. Through Christ we are given the Holy Spirit that helps us recognize what is of Christ, and we are give His words in scripture to also help. We are to use both. Scripture tells us of the narrow path we must follow, and it does not include any "that's OK beloved, you just go right ahead and live however you desire, you can depend on My grace no matter what you believe or do". Grace means that we have forgiveness available without our earning it by right living, but through repentance.

We would have to follow the law as it is written both in scripture and in our hearts, or we wouldn't know what to repent from. So grace includes we know and follow law. Grace includes putting on Christ. Christ cannot live with sin.

 

[Pen014]

to be loosened or to be bound.

you are bound to be Corrected

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are under grace, but grace is not void of law. If there were no law, everyone would be perfectly sinless.

you can't have both.

it is either law or grace.

which is it??

And your right The law (as schoolmaster) lead us to Christ. But that is when Grace kicks in does it not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no such commandment no, there never was such law calling for sacrifice for presumtive sin, not one, zero, nada, none. There was only one recourse and that was repentance. Its what separates the wicked man from a righteous man. A wicked stays down and wallows in his sin like a pig. A righteous man though may stumble and fall, gets back up again and seeks forgiveness and turns back (repents) to the path.

The law said if you sin, A sacrifice must be given did it not? Why did all those animals die in the OT if it had no meaning?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If we are under law for salvation, we would have to obey every law, we would have to be Holy even without the knowledge of sin we inherited from Adam. We would not have Christ available to us. We are under grace through the forgiveness available to us through Christ.

Your point is that once we repent, it is for everything and never should be repeated? Are you saying the definition of repent is to recognize sin? I know of no scripture to support your interpretation, please give some?

What do you think repent means. Repent from every personal sin we ever commit. That is not possible?

There is a repentnance for salvation (justification) and a repentance for sanctification As we learn more about our savior.

I think scripture points out that we are to put on Christ daily, and walk with Him all we can. Through Christ we are given the Holy Spirit that helps us recognize what is of Christ, and we are give His words in scripture to also help. We are to use both. Scripture tells us of the narrow path we must follow, and it does not include any "that's OK beloved, you just go right ahead and live however you desire, you can depend on My grace no matter what you believe or do". Grace means that we have forgiveness available without our earning it by right living, but through repentance.

We would have to follow the law as it is written both in scripture and in our hearts, or we wouldn't know what to repent from. So grace includes we know and follow law. Grace includes putting on Christ. Christ cannot live with sin.

Are you sinless? Is anyone you know sinless?? Can you go a day without sin???

Grace says a sinful person is given the ability to be saved from the penalty of sin (death) once we repent and recieve his gift.

It does not mean we will be perfect. Our perfection will occur once we are risen, not before.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Can a Christian commit a sin such as theft, keep the stolen property yet maintain his salvation? Or must he do "works meet for repentance" by making reparation by returning the stolen property to its rightful owner or else be lost?

The way I see it: repentance is changing one's mind from unbelief to belief. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. That would be a change of heart or change of mind. We are then a part of the body of Christ, a child of God.

After one is born again he needs to ask forgiveness - 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now if we steal something, the right thing to do would be return the property. Do we always do the right thing? If we do not return it does that condemn us or make us any less a Son?

If my son or daughter does something wrong that doesn't make them any less my son or daughter. It may harm their fellowship with the family but once they ask me to forgive them - that fellowship is restored.

 

[RedTent]

What do you think repent means. Repent from every personal sin we ever commit. That is not possible?

There is a repentnance for salvation (justification) and a repentance for sanctification As we learn more about our savior.



Are you sinless? Is anyone you know sinless?? Can you go a day without sin???

Grace says a sinful person is given the ability to be saved from the penalty of sin (death) once we repent and recieve his gift.

It does not mean we will be perfect. Our perfection will occur once we are risen, not before.

When I go to Christ to be cleansed of sin, when I tell Christ I reject every sin I know and ask to be cleansed from those I do not know, yes, I am cleansed. I do this many times.

I have never read that repentance is different for justification and sanctification. Where is that?

Scripture tells me not to get the idea that I am perfect, but it tells me to be perfect. We are to be with Christ, we are not to teach anything that isn't of Christ. If we teach not to put on Christ, and not to work towards this goal, we are not reporting correctly. We are teaching that sin is OK for grace automatically saves us from it, no use striving. That is wrong.

 

[paulsfam4]

being a Christian in the first place one would steal GOD DOES FORGIVE US FOR OUR SINS BUT WE ARE A NEW PERSON IN CHRIST but you have to make your choice where your heart is and don't do it anymore read your bible live for Jesus on a daily basis.! Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. return the item you know its the right thing to do and walk away from the desires of this world and look to our lord Jesus you can turn it around and live for Jesus with no quilt

 

[ThomistColin]

Here is the crux of the matter. The only time throughout the entirety of Scripture, the ONLY time the words "Faith alone" are found is in James, when it says, "We are not justified by faith alone."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When I go to Christ to be cleansed of sin, when I tell Christ I reject every sin I know and ask to be cleansed from those I do not know, yes, I am cleansed. I do this many times.

I have never read that repentance is different for justification and sanctification. Where is that?

Where is that?

The law says you must do it over and over. Christ died ONCE to take away sin (the penalty)

Why do you want to crucify him over and over?

The penalty of sin is death Not repenting every time you sin.

Scripture tells me not to get the idea that I am perfect, but it tells me to be perfect.

No. it tells you to reach maturity. The word perfect is a bad translation.

You are perfect in Christ (In Christ the spirit is alive) But in the flesh you are still in sin (dead)

We are to be with Christ, we are not to teach anything that isn't of Christ. If we teach not to put on Christ, and not to work towards this goal, we are not reporting correctly. We are teaching that sin is OK for grace automatically saves us from it, no use striving. That is wrong.

Who is teaching this? I have not seen anyone to teach not being in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is the crux of the matter. The only time throughout the entirety of Scripture, the ONLY time the words "Faith alone" are found is in James, when it says, "We are not justified by faith alone."

Here is the crux of the matter.

James speaks of those who have mere belief, but no faith (faith is dead) which will never save anyone. True faith produces true work (eph 2: 8-10) if the work did not follow. the faith was not real. Because since there was NO FAITH. there was no work.

ps. Eph 2: 8-9 says faith alone. The word alone does not need to be added. Faith minus works equals faith alone