DID GOD CREATE EVIL?

[Richie_2uk]

" DID GOD CREATE EVIL? "

In my personal view, if we believe that God created a perfect world and he's sovereign, where did evil come from?
There are those who believe that His sovereign control includes the creation of evil, and they base that conclusion on the words of " Isaiah 45:7 " were it says: " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil, I the lord do all these things"

So does God create evil? most certainly "NOT" If he was the author of evil, then he would certainly not be a good God who is worthy of all worship and praise, much less trusted to have our well being in mind.

The idea of a good God creating His own enemy and subject to His own wrath seems inconsistent for a good God to mastermind the idea of evil, will it into existence and still be considered a good God.

Rather, God created man in his image with the freedom to choose. With his freedom came the opportunity to rebel against Him. Man did rebel (Genesis 3) and the rest is history. The records of human history chronicle how God uses everything-Even the chaos of his world - To bring about his glory and purpose. Those purposes include our growth in becoming more Christlike.

So you maybe wondering what the point of "Isaiah 45: 7"? Well God reveals His almighty and awesome character to us so we can have the confidence that comes from knowing - even in the most darkest, desperate and discouraging times - that God is continually up to something good in our lives...............

 

[svedbygrace]

DID GOD CREATE EVIL?

Yes, Isa 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word evil means these variables :

I.bad, evil
A.
bad, disagreeable, malignant

B.
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

C.
evil, displeasing

D.
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

E.
bad (of value)

F.
worse than, worst (comparison)

G.
sad, unhappy

H.
evil (hurtful)

I.
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

J.
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)I.

in general, of persons, of thoughts

ii.
deeds, actions

Then scripture said He made the wicked for Himself Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


The word wicked :

I.wicked, criminal
A.
guilty one, one guilty of crime (subst)

B.
wicked (hostile to God)
C.
wicked, guilty of sin (against God or man)

Now to deny this is to flat out deny scripture revelation and its no excuse !

 

[svedbygrace]

Savedbygrace, no He didn't. That verse is translated as calamity. God is perfectly holy, sin and evil does not originate from Him.

The word the Spirit inspired is evil, and I gave the definition, you either believe it or you don't !

 

[Spokenpassage]

Savedbygrace, no He didn't. That verse is not stating wickedness. God is perfectly holy, sin and evil does not originate from Him.

 

[4enlightment]

" DID GOD CREATE EVIL? "

In my personal view, if we believe that God created a perfect world and he's sovereign, where did evil come from?
There are those who believe that His sovereign control includes the creation of evil, and they base that conclusion on the words of " Isaiah 45:7 " were it says: " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil, I the lord do all these things"

So does God create evil? most certainly "NOT" If he was the author of evil, then he would certainly not be a good God who is worthy of all worship and praise, much less trusted to have our well being in mind.

The idea of a good God creating His own enemy and subject to His own wrath seems inconsistent for a good God to mastermind the idea of evil, will it into existence and still be considered a good God.

Rather, God created man in his image with the freedom to choose. With his freedom came the opportunity to rebel against Him. Man did rebel (Genesis 3) and the rest is history. The records of human history chronicle how God uses everything-Even the chaos of his world - To bring about his glory and purpose. Those purposes include our growth in becoming more Christlike.

So you maybe wondering what the point of "Isaiah 45: 7"? Well God reveals His almighty and awesome character to us so we can have the confidence that comes from knowing - even in the most darkest, desperate and discouraging times - that God is continually up to something good in our lives...............

Acts 13:36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.

John 9:3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Isaiah 29:16 You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”?

empathy (ˈɛmpəθɪ) n1. the power of understanding and imaginatively entering into another person's feelings. See also identification[SUP]3b[/SUP]
2. the attribution to an object, such as a work of art, of one's own emotional or intellectual feelings about it

In order to show empathy for someone, that person must have had been in that situation or close to it. We grow or mature in our trials. So I think suffering is actually a good thing, we should treat it as if we are being prune like a plant in order for us to grow upright and fruitful.

 

[Spokenpassage]

The word the Spirit inspired is evil, and I gave the definition, you either believe it or you don't !

It refers to adversity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 NASB

"The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He."

Believe it or not but He is perfectly righteous and just

 

[Richie_2uk]

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16:4


This verse is one of those passages that the enemy uses to tear apart people's faith in God. Unfortunately, there are some verses, such as this one, that is not properly interpreted in the KJV and modern translations. This is a perfect example of the importance of going back to the original Hebrew or Greek to get a true reading of what God's Word is really trying to tell us!
First, let me give you a few scriptures, that seem to contradict this one verse:
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Psalms 145:9



That passage tells us that God is good to EVERYBODY! If God created and predestined some people to wrath, then such a verse would be untrue. If an earthly father had a son with the intent of punishing him, how on earth could we call such a person a good dad?? How much worse would it be for us to live in denial and say that such a person is good to all of his children?? Apparently this verse clashes with Proverbs 16:4 in a very obvious way!



For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Apparently, God is good to all, if He loved the world (full of sinners) so much that He gave His only begotten son so that they might be saved! But wait a minute, what if one of those wicked people believed upon Him? Aren't they made for the day of wrath? Or are the wicked no longer made for the day of evil? Apparently, this verse clashes with what Proverbs 16:4 is saying as well.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9

Now here is God saying that it is not His will that any man should perish, or receive eternal punishment for his sins, but that all men should come to Jesus and be saved. If God says this in the NT, and He's the same yesterday, today, and forever, then I can assure you that it was never His will for anybody in the OT to perish either. If you spend much time in the OT, you'll learn that God was very merciful, loving, and "not willing for any to perish" back then either. What in this passage, we are told that God does not want anybody to perish, but in Proverbs 16:4, we are told that He made the wicked for His purposes, so that He can punish them on the day of evil. There's another clear contraction with Proverbs 16:4!



I could go on and on with verse after verse, which seems to contradict Proverbs 16:4... so what is my point? My point is that the way that our modern translations interpret this verse, gives us the wrong impression. It is one of those verses which we must dig into the original language to learn of it's true meaning. So let's do that!


The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Proverbs 16:4
In the above passage, the phrase, "things for Himself" takes us back to the Hebrew word maaneh, which to answer to, or to give a reply to. What is being said in the first part of this verse is, "The Lord hath made all things to answer or give an account unto Him." With that said, we could accurately read Proverbs 16:4 like this:
The LORD hath made all things to give account unto Him: yea, even the wicked, who think they are off His hook, have to give an account unto Him on the day of judgment.
Doesn't that make a lot more sense? Now let's put that verse into context with verses 2 through 5:
16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

16:4 [The LORD hath made all things to give account unto Him: yea, even the wicked, who think they are off His hook, have to give an account unto Him on the day of judgment.]

16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 16:2-5
And there you have it! God did NOT create the wicked so that He could punish them. He created all things to give an account unto Him, even those who think they are getting away with their sins now, are going to give an account to Him on the day of judgment.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Hold up now Richie, we are talking about evil, not predestination. Yes God predestined, but why are you connecting it with the OP's topic? God can predestinate people to heaven and hell without being the author of sin.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Hold up now Richie, we are talking about evil, not predestination. Yes God predestined, but why are you connecting it with the OP's topic? God can predestinate people to heaven and hell without being the author of sin.

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Proverbs 16:4
In the above passage, the phrase, "things for Himself" takes us back to the Hebrew word maaneh, which to answer to, or to give a reply to. What is being said in the first part of this verse is, "The Lord hath made all things to answer or give an account unto Him." With that said, we could accurately read Proverbs 16:4 like this:
The LORD hath made all things to give account unto Him: yea, even the wicked, who think they are off His hook, have to give an account unto Him on the day of judgment.
Doesn't that make a lot more sense? Now let's put that verse into context with verses 2 through 5:
16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Richie, a lot of people try to misinterpret this, even commentaries, but read Romans 9, the entire chapter.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Richie, a lot of people try to misinterpret this, even commentaries, but read Romans 9, the entire chapter.

The Deterministic Interpretation of Romans 9
Many people believe that Romans 9 demonstrates that God has the right and power to save whichever individuals he wants to save and damn whichever individuals he wants to damn. I’ll call this the “deterministic” reading of Romans 9, for it holds that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost.
On first glance, it may seem that the deterministic interpretation of Romans 9 has a strong case. For in this passage Paul explicitly says that God “has mercy on whomever he chooses and he hardens whomever he chooses” (vs. 18). He then illustrates God’s sovereign election by referring to God’s choice of Isaac over Ishmael (9:7-8) and of Jacob over Esau (9:10-13). Regarding this latter choice Paul writes:
“Even before [Jacob and Esau] had been born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose of election might continue, not by works but by his call) [Rebecca] was told, ‘The elder shall serve the younger.’
As it is written,
‘I have loved Jacob,
but I have hated Esau’” (Rom. 9:11-13).
Without regard to anything Jacob or Esau did, God chose to “love” Jacob and “hate” Esau. Hence, Paul concludes, God’s choice of people “depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy” (Rom. 9:16).
The support for the deterministic interpretation seems to grow even stronger as Paul goes on to depict God’s relationship to humans as a relationship between a potter and his clay. God has the right to fashions us, his clay, however he sees fit. And this is precisely what he does, according to Paul.
“Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; and what if he has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory” (Rom 9:21-23).
According to the deterministic interpretation, Paul is teaching that God simply fashions some vessels for destruction in order to display his wrath and power and other vessels for mercy in order to display his mercy. He hardens the former and has mercy on the latter. And this hardening and granting mercy is not based on anything God finds in the vessel. It is simply based on God’s free decision. If this seems unfair, as it undoubtedly does, Paul’s response is simply to invalidate the sentiment: “[W]ho indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, ‘Why have you made me like this?’” (Rom 9:20).
So, the case for the deterministic interpretation initially looks strong. Nevertheless, I think it is mistaken. Indeed, I shall argue that a central point of Romans 9 is to argue the exact opposite of the conclusions drawn from the deterministic interpretation. For, in contrast to the deterministic interpretation, God is not an arbitrary, deterministic deity. He rather is wisely flexible in his dealings with humans.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Predestination is far from arbitrary choice...

 

[Hoffco]

Richie_2wk , It would appear that you are very capable of getting the correct message from the Bible but it is quite obvious, your heart has been so programmed that you will not receive the message your mind tells you. Some way , how, your heart will not be controlled by the word of God. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Predestination is a choice based on only love and God's appointment to Hell is controlled, based only on, by His Wrath. These both are arbitrary choices based on nothing by love and/or wrath. Love to all. I have to make choices because I am a limited man, this is not the case with God, for Him it is a totally unbiased choice. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[svedbygrace]

It refers to adversity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 NASB

"The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He."

Believe it or not but He is perfectly righteous and just

The word the Spirit inspired is evil, and I gave the definition, you either believe it or you don't !

The word evil means these variables :

I.bad, evil
A.
bad, disagreeable, malignant

B.
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

C.
evil, displeasing

D.
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

E.
bad (of value)

F.
worse than, worst (comparison)

G.
sad, unhappy

H.
evil (hurtful)

I.
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

J.
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)I.

in general, of persons, of thoughts

ii.
deeds, actions

 

[svedbygrace]

It refers to adversity.

Deuteronomy 32:4 NASB

"The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He."

Believe it or not but He is perfectly righteous and just

You don't believe Deut 32:4 nor understand it !

 

[svedbygrace]

Richie

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

The World is His Elect !

 

[Kerry]

What you all are forgetting is the fact that we are born evil. Which one of you had to teach your child to lie or did he automatically know how. You would say that God created him with this ability and that is wrong. Satan rebelled against God by his own free will and tricked man into disobeying God and there by corrupting the seed of man. Which is why Jesus had to be born of the seed of a woman and not man in order to be perfect. The command was given from God to Adam and not to Eve.

Satan tried to corrupt the seed of man even further by having fallen angels sleep with women and giants were born. Then Satan also attempted to defy the redeemer by having men sleep with men and women with women.

Thank God that none of this worked and the only way to have freedom over evil or the sin nature is to have faith in the work of the cross and that being Gods work and not our own.

 

[jkalyna]

Before I get told go and play someplace else, I'll say no, and tell why,
When God created all things as in Genesis, he said, and God said it was good.
Evil is not good.
Man thinketh continually evil in his heart,
God wouldn't of given Jesus and made Jesus
suffer like he did.
We needed cleansing from our evil ways, our evil thoughts, etc.
Without the new birth, it would be impossible, and men's hearts would never change, to repentance, this is what it's all about,
Nothing that the Lord created was evil.
Our free will creates it, chooses it darkness over light, men loveth darkness rather than light, so that there evil deeds will not be seen.
Choice
Choose this day who you will serve. [ bible verse]
*​

 

[Cleante]

What you all are forgetting is the fact that we are born evil. Which one of you had to teach your child to lie or did he automatically know how. You would say that God created him with this ability and that is wrong. Satan rebelled against God by his own free will and tricked man into disobeying God and there by corrupting the seed of man. Which is why Jesus had to be born of the seed of a woman and not man in order to be perfect. The command was given from God to Adam and not to Eve.

Satan tried to corrupt the seed of man even further by having fallen angels sleep with women and giants were born. Then Satan also attempted to defy the redeemer by having men sleep with men and women with women.

Thank God that none of this worked and the only way to have freedom over evil or the sin nature is to have faith in the work of the cross and that being Gods work and not our own.

I would disagree that we are born "evil". It is my opinion that it would be better worded as "we are born with an inclination towards sin and disobedience (concupiscence or disordered passion)". However, this does not mean that we are born guilty of sin. Instead, we inherit the consequences of sin and the state of a fallen world. In order to commit a sin, there must be intent. I would find it hard to believe that a one day old infant is capable of committing any sin, let alone be guilty of any sin.

The world evil is misused in a lot of these posts. God cannot and does not create evil. Evil originates in the ability of noetic beings to be willfully disobedient to God, this alienating themselves from His loving presence. Evil is a consequence of an action.