The Paranormal

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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Many are quite conflicted: 5 facts about atheists | Pew Research Center

"82% [of atheists] say they either often (52%) or sometimes (30%) feel a deep connection with nature and the earth."

^ So do Wiccans. Inside every atheist is a pantheist (not to be confused with a polytheist) straining to get out... lol. But atheism and pantheism are both false worldviews and people who become deceived by either find the same end.


Have you ever felt him drawing you,conviction, anything? You did not harden your heart i hope because of circumstances or
just hardships of life? He is the only one who can open our hearts and minds.
 
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Kerry

Guest
Have you ever seen evolution take place or do you have faith in it. Don't back me down while i'm preaching good.
 
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Kerry

Guest
Well Cycel left reckon why?
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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"When our time is up, it's up, fini!" That's a religion?

How does simply not believing something constitute a religion? What about those atheists who think ghosts might exist? Are they a different religion from those atheists who think there are no ghosts? I believe you are really undermining what it means to be religious. I suspect this opinion is not share by academics who study religion.
There are sports fans whose devotion has been characterized as religion.

football-is-my-religion_design.png
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
It might have been clinical depression in her case. The same cannot be said for Corrie Ten Boom. She was vibrantly in communication with God right up until her promotion into His presence.

[video=youtube;Ux0DCFcn5Xw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux0DCFcn5Xw[/video]

Historically, it is also obvious that as Christianity expanded from a handful of disciples to become the world's dominant worldview that most converts during that period did NOT come from Christian homes.

The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life asserts that there are nearly 2.2 billion Christians around the world making up about one-third of the world's population and representing the largest religious demographic on the planet.

And given the number of atheists that have converted to Christianity, your assertion that a prior belief is a requisite for faith is factually false. You just made a false assertion. Another false assertion would be your denial of the number that converted based on a careful logical and scientific weighing of the evidence.


God's silence caused Mother Teresa, at the end of her life, to question whether she had been deluding herself about his existence. I think if we did a survey we would find that the majority of devout adults were raised by devout parents. When you are raised with that certainty of belief I think it becomes much more difficult to begin questioning. What I can’t see I can’t know exists.

All invisible things that I am familiar with, that exist, are still detectable by physical means. That's how we know they exist. Prior belief is a requisite for faith. I don't know how a person can acquire faith in God's existence without first holding the belief that God exists. I don't know how to go there without the physical evidence.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
He does that sometimes when I show up because the truth and facts don't fit the view of the world he's constructed.

Well Cycel left reckon why?
 
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Kerry

Guest
He does that sometimes when I show up because the truth and facts don't fit the view of the world he's constructed.
I love the guy and I hope he comes to the knowledge of the Lord.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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All invisible things that I am familiar with, that exist, are still detectable by physical means. That's how we know they exist. Prior belief is a requisite for faith. I don't know how a person can acquire faith in God's existence without first holding the belief that God exists. I don't know how to go there without the physical evidence.
Naturalists only acknowledge natural perception. In reality, there are many things that natural science doesn't know.

The last that I knew, science didn't really know what holds together an atomic or cationic nucleus. Animal migrations were not understood. Men and women remain as mysteries to each other. :).

Logic and reasoning are required to reach some conclusions.

Here were are alive on a planet in a solar system in the Milky Way galaxy. Who put us here and what are our obligations to our Originator?

Many in the grave have been either perpetrators of injustice or victims of injustice or both. Will these wrongs ever be made right? I believe they will and God will make them right. Judgement and vengeance belongs to God. God alone has perfect knowledge and understanding. God alone can make things right.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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There are many metaphysical entities like beauty, truth, trust, logic, justice, mercy, compassion that are not measured physically but exist nonetheless as realities.

The components of the soul are mind, will and emotion. Human beings also have a component called spirit. There are metaphysical entities.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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"When our time is up, it's up, fini!" That's a religion?

How does simply not believing something constitute a religion? What about those atheists who think ghosts might exist? Are they a different religion from those atheists who think there are no ghosts? I believe you are really undermining what it means to be religious. I suspect this opinion is not share by academics who study religion.
As an atheist, do you think there would be religion if there was no death?
Death is the very core that motivates man made religion.
Thing is ours is not man made and it's 'Founder' conquered death.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to eternal life. Most choose the broad paved one that leads to destruction.

"A highway will be there, a roadway, And it will be called the Highway of Holiness. The unclean will not travel on it, But it [will] be for him who walks [that] way, And fools will not wander [on it]." -Isaiah 35:8

On the other hand: Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.



I love the guy and I hope he comes to the knowledge of the Lord.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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We might have a particularly good summer with a proper balance of sun and rain resulting in a bountiful harvest. Christians will thank God for that, but what evidence exists that God had anything to do with it? In another part of the world the same good fortune might be absent. The following news item is a demonstration of this very issue: "

“This summer’s wheat crop is all over the map, with some Southwestern Ontario farmers seeing their highest yields ever and some gleaning one of their poorest crops ever.”

Wheat whacked by weather, fungus | Sarnia Observer

Had this been 200 years ago some farmers would be thanking God for their wonderful harvest while others, not so distant, would be trying to understand how they'd displeased the Almighty. In the present age we understand that weather patterns fluctuate all over the world. In one area a bride will have pleasant sunny weather for her wedding and in another there will be torrential downpour for someone else. It has nothing to do with God favouring brides in one area and not another, it has to do with the luck of the draw and the day of the wedding, but you will never convince those who are devout that the good weather wasn't evidence their prayers were answered. Will you?

It seems to me believers are too quick on the draw to see divine providence every time something goes well.
In every place, people have reason to give thanks for the earth below, the sky above, and for air and water and food.

Human atrocities and natural catastrophes happen but they could be much worse. It is good and right to give thanks to God.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to eternal life. Most choose the broad paved one that leads to destruction.

"A highway will be there, a roadway, And it will be called the Highway of Holiness. The unclean will not travel on it, But it [will] be for him who walks [that] way, And fools will not wander [on it]." -Isaiah 35:8

On the other hand: Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Christ's kingdom is coming. It is still being revealed and manifested. Christians can live as servants of the king and we can herald His message.

But, let make the offer to others to accept (or not) by free-will choice and not by compulsion. Whosoever will, let them come into that kingdom and love and serve the King.

There is a supernatural element that goes beyond human will. Let the great King grant of his Spirit and Grace.
 
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In every place, people have reason to give thanks for the earth below, the sky above, and for air and water and food.
I think a person has every right to consider themselves fortunate if they live in a society that manages its resources well. We need to protect that natural investment for future generations which is what motivates many environmentalists. I know in my own family when we've sat down to begin a meal we have sometimes given thanks to the farmers and the food distributors, but I've never felt the need to thank an unseen force that you might choose to call God.

nl said:
Human atrocities and natural catastrophes happen but they could be much worse. It is good and right to give thanks to God.
You are certainly free to believe that natural disasters, and so on, have been ameliorated by God, but you can not demonstrate the truth of the claim. Oh, there might always be worse natural disasters but I have no reason to think that any given event would have been worse without God's intervention. Those who think God has intervened are making faith claims they cannot prove. Putting forward such claims as statements of fact is an error of judgement. There is no way such claims can ever be substantiated as statements of fact.
 
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There are sports fans whose devotion has been characterized as religion.

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When he was 12 years old Bobby Fisher is reported to have said, “All I want to do ever, is play chess.” I have a cousin by marriage who's turned his love of golf into a profession. As devoted as people are to their pass-times these are not religions, not even in the case of NHL players who are too superstitious to shave till the play-offs are over. Religions go much deeper, don't you think? I am sticking to my guns in asserting that a single non-belief, such as in the example of atheists who do no believe in an afterlife, do not count as religion.

Here’s another thing regarding that. Athletes and chess players are often deeply devoted to the game. The atheists I know who don’t believe in an afterlife don’t really give it much thought. It is not something we dwell upon. I don’t believe in an afterlife, but I don’t think about the subject unless something comes up in a discussion. That I won’t live on doesn’t bother me in the least. It is pretty much a non-issue. Would you say your religious beliefs are a non-issue? Visit an atheist forum. Atheists never talk about non-existence after death. They are not interested in the discussion because, despite how important the subject is for Christians, for atheists it is a non-issue.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Atheism posits that what a person considers or does not consider is ultimately meaningless for them after they die and, of course, ultimately atheism posits doom in an accelerating dead universe devoid of all advanced biological life.

Not so for the Christian, of course. What we do and say is ultimately meaningful both in the here and now and also for eternity. Life does not end upon the biological death of the body and God has plans for creation... a creation he put us in charge of and endowed with a responsibility to care for.

Genesis 2:15 says “The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.” We recognize that all created things belong to God and that we are accountable to Him as stewards of the creation.

God commissions us to rule over the creation in a way that sustains, protects, and enhances his works so that all creation may fulfill the purposes God intended for it. We must manage the environment not simply for our own benefit but for God’s glory. Doing so yields both temporal benefits but also eternal rewards.

Furthermore, in stark contrast to the foundationless ethics of naturalistic philosophy, the concept of God provides the perfect rationale on which to base moral determinations within that context. There is a God who sees both “the evil and the good” (Proverbs 15:3). He will call every person into account for his or her actions (Revelation 20:12-15).

Rape, murderous abortion, school slayings, genocide, man-made disasters for profit that injure the world and the people in it and other heinous crimes are not biological, evolutionary by-products passed down to humans from some mammalian precursor, nor are such crimes biological “malfunctions” caused by mutations. Such actions are sinful, morally reprehensible crimes against humanity and God by individuals who have chosen to ignore the ultimate moral standard God manifested in His Son Jesus Christ and recorded in His Word, the Bible.

As someone wholly deceived within the false atheistic worldview; your need is desperate.



I think a person has every right to consider themselves fortunate if they live in a society that manages its resources well. We need to protect that natural investment for future generations which is what motivates many environmentalists. I know in my own family when we've sat down to begin a meal we have sometimes given thanks to the farmers and the food distributors, but I've never felt the need to thank an unseen force that you might choose to call God.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Atheism is a competing metaphysical worldview with a creed and assertions of belief that have real consequences for humanity just like any other religion.

Furthermore; atheists assemble, are evangelistic, celebrate over converts, are zealous for their cause, assert exclusivity of their metaphysical worldview, possess an us against them mentality, are concerned about their public image, function as a voting block, seek to fund their activities, etc... exercising their "religious capital" just as ardent adherents of any religion do.

I would also add that they lack critical thinking, misrepresent opposing views, operate in denial of the truth, etc... based on my experience with them... lol.

Atheism should be held to exactly the same standard as any religion for socio-political reasons and purposes. Trying to "get one over" on humanity by pretending to be neutral is disingenuous of atheists and atheists who engage in the practice are following in the footsteps of their Machiavellian 20th century predecessors who married the ideology of absolutist state atheism with communism.

They falsely believed atheism was the truth, absolutely, and would bring about the greatest human welfare and happiness. And they believed that power, the dictatorship of the proletariat, must be used to tear down and rebuild society and culture to conform to atheism to realize this utopia. Government was thus above God or any natural law. All institutions, cultural norms, traditions, and sentiments were expendable. And the people were as though lumber and bricks, to be used in building their new world.

Constructing this utopia was seen as though a war on poverty, exploitation, imperialism, and inequality. And for the greater good, as in a real war, people are killed. And thus this war for the communist utopia had its necessary enemy casualties, the clergy, the religious, the bourgeoisie, capitalists, wreckers, counterrevolutionaries, rightists, tyrants, rich, landlords, and noncombatants without respect for Imago Dei.

The cause of a state atheistic utopia justified all the deaths. The irony, of course, is that in practice (even after decades of total control) the lot of the average person did not improve but was usually worse than before. It was not by chance that the greatest famines occurred within the Soviet Union (about 5,000,000 dead during 1921-23 and 7,000,000 from 1932-3) and communist China (about 27,000,000 dead from 1959-61).

In total almost 55,000,000 people died in various communist famines and associated diseases, a little over 10,000,000 of them from democidal famine and something like 35,000,000 people fled state atheistic communist countries as refugees.

But they could not admit they were wrong. After all, their knowledge was scientific and based on historical materialism, an understanding of the dialectical process in nature and human society, and a materialist (and thus realistic) view of nature.

State atheists falsely posited a heaven on earth without God nor respect given to either natural law or Imago Dei. Atheism was a faith populated by fanatics who crusaded against "nonbelievers." Atheism had its revealed text and chief interpreters. It had its priests and their ritualistic prose with all the answers who asserted heaven on earth and the proper behavior to reach it.

As Dr. Rummel pointed out:

"What made this secular religion so utterly lethal was its seizure of all the state's instrument of force and coercion and their immediate use to destroy or control all independent sources of power, such as the church, the professions, private businesses, schools, and, of course, the family. The result is what we see in Table 1."




Nothing else in history has matched the ferocity of fanatical state atheism tied to modern technology. They accomplished more destruction in less than a century than the false religious worldview of Islam could cause over the centuries and their neo-pagan oriented fascist competitors put together.
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion

Of course, atheists simply excuse themselves from the consequences of their secular religion and point the finger at "religion" in general ignorantly and disingenuously mixing in every false religious system with an accurate exegesis of God's special revelation (e.g. Christian epistemology) which they also mistakenly blame for the excesses of political colonialism... something they do not understand or properly articulate (See Stark, Diamond, etc...).



I am sticking to my guns in asserting that a single non-belief, such as in the example of atheists who do no believe in an afterlife, do not count as religion.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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When he was 12 years old Bobby Fisher is reported to have said, “All I want to do ever, is play chess.” I have a cousin by marriage who's turned his love of golf into a profession. As devoted as people are to their pass-times these are not religions, not even in the case of NHL players who are too superstitious to shave till the play-offs are over. Religions go much deeper, don't you think? I am sticking to my guns in asserting that a single non-belief, such as in the example of atheists who do no believe in an afterlife, do not count as religion.

Here’s another thing regarding that. Athletes and chess players are often deeply devoted to the game. The atheists I know who don’t believe in an afterlife don’t really give it much thought. It is not something we dwell upon. I don’t believe in an afterlife, but I don’t think about the subject unless something comes up in a discussion. That I won’t live on doesn’t bother me in the least. It is pretty much a non-issue. Would you say your religious beliefs are a non-issue? Visit an atheist forum. Atheists never talk about non-existence after death. They are not interested in the discussion because, despite how important the subject is for Christians, for atheists it is a non-issue.
Under the US Constitution at least, I would contend that the freedom to be an atheist is protected by First Amendment provisions for the free exercise of religion.

No belief in God or an afterlife would mean no belief in a future judgment and recompense for those human souls who were the perpetrators and /or victims of injustice while alive.
 
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Ever since Adam and Eve sinned the world has been going towards the beast kingdom in Revelation.That is the final outcome of the world that does not love God,and that is because as time goes on people get more selfish,and arrogant,and want to exalt themselves,and that is because that is the direction they are going and it gets worse.

The beast kingdom is a kingdom that is all about people with no religious or governmental authority above them,which they will believe that they can tap in to nature and obtain powers,which the man of sin,the beast,will not recognize the God of his fathers but in his estate he will honor the God of forces(nature),and will cause craft,witchcraft,to prosper in his kingdom.

God told us the attitude of the last generation on earth before Jesus comes back and that is they will not honor their parents,will be highly selfish and arrogant,and want to exalt themselves,and will devour the poor from off the earth,and the needy from among men,which means they will heap money to themselves and not care about the poor and needy(Proverbs 30:11-15).

God told us that perilous times shall come because people at the last days will be highly selfish,highy arrogant,and not obey parents,and not have natural affection towards other people.

Jesus said at the last days that since iniquity will abound the love of many will wax cold,and that is because sin is selfish and arrogance,and people basically caring about themselves with little regard for anyone else,so the attitude becomes you do not care about me,I do not care about you,to where they want to highly exalt themselves,by money and material things,and the occult,nature worship,believing they can receive powers through nature.

The beast kingdom will end up in nature worship and getting rid off all authority above them because they will go as far as they can go to exalt themselves,and that is because that is the direction that the world has been going ever since Adam and Eve sinned,and it will be all about believing they can tap in to nature and receive powers and no authority above them,because that transcends material and monetary power and exaltation,and they might even believe that it transcends military power,for who can stand before someone that has received godlike powers.

Of course when they get to that point they will find out they cannot receive powers because you cannot tap in to nature and get power,and the false prophet will do lying wonders and miracles to convince the world that the beast has received powers through nature and gave the false prophet that power,but of course they are not true wonders and miracles,but lying wonders and miracles.

That is how the world will end up,wanting to exalt themselves highly because that is the direction they are going,so the selfishness,and arrogance,and wanting to exalt themselves,will get worse and worse,and them believing in the occult,nature worship,tapping in to nature and receiving godlike powers,is as far as they can go to exalt themselves,and that is the beast's agenda to establish a world that is all about people with no governmental or religious authority above them,and based on nature worship and tapping in to nature for power,that do not recognize a personal God but honor the God of forces.

It is strange how people that want to exalt themselves will believe such things,and even believe that a physical exercise like Yoga has anything to so with being spiritual.

Eventually Christianity as we know it will no longer be recognized as having a personal God,but will be a false Christianity based on the exaltation of people,which God warns us in 1 Timothy 4 to stay away from that interpretation of the Bible,which the devil will use that interpretation of the Bible to pave the way for the man of sin,an interpretation that all religions will accept because Jesus is not the savior but a good teacher as well as other good teachers,and all religions are valid for spiritual enlightment,which the Bible says that the time will come that they will not want to hear the Bible according to the truth,but will want to hear is according to their own lusts,which means they want personal power and to exalt themselves,which that false interpretation gives them.