So much arguing...

[dcontroversal]

Was Elijah reasoning out of the scriptures when he mocked the worshippers of Baal and their god...very sarcastically I must say?

Was John reasoning out of the scriptures when he called the Pharisees vipers and snakes?

Was Jesus reasoning out of scriptures when he called them hypocrites, blind leaders of the blind, white washed coffins filled with dead men's bones?

ALL the above involved two parties...

1. It contained false teachers spreading lies and heresy.....<--anyone who teaches heresy
2. It involved the children of God being led by the Spirit of God...<----anyone being led by the spirit

YES WE ARE to reason out of the scriptures......it is equally consistent to use sarcasm that has a certain shock value when people refuse to submit to given truth.....

Someone might say (and I hate this saying) You catch more flies with honey over vinegar.....WELL WE ARE NOT trying to CATCH FLIES, but RATHER we are dealing with HUMAN SOULS and the ETERNITY to come....Some people will not reason, some will not listen to reason and or (dance) when the word of God is piped...

AND JOHN came crying in the wilderness.....THE AXE is laid to the root.....WHO hath warned the to flee O GENERATION of VIPERS<-----Reasoning according to JOHN...2nd only to JESUS in the kingdom of God!

 

[fredjames]

One thing I have learnt in life is not to let other people affect me.

Debating is not bad at all.....I find it rather stimulating actually ahaa

i am sorry to say that you are still a child in your confession to Spiritual teachings of the New Covenant by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT about 'Agape'. 'Debate' is not according to the New Covenant of 'Agape'. It is just that we ourselves who are still in the flesh/carnality understand less to the things of above, like the world, trying to 'use force and harshness' because of our placed gifts in making others understand.

We are only messing up and causing division, rather than 'unity'. 'Unity' only take effects, each and everyone of us understand the New Covenant by the HELP of the HOLY SPIRIT, to learn as it is written in whole/sound doctrine.

If not we will be quoting Scripture here and there to suite our perishing living, for others to listen to us, when others who have journeyed on with the HOLY SPIRIT, know how we are grieving HIM, with our flesh/carnal living in enmity with HIM, 'which stops us from what we are called to do'.

By the HELP of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT, i see among many believers the glamorous lives we are living and witnessing to others in Spiritual poverty, which continue to fail submission and obedience to the words of spirit and life, of our LORD JESUS CHRIST of the New Covenant, to 'abide/practice' and witnessing, the liberated people of the New Jerusalem Kingdom of GOD, even to the Gentiles, when we were also equally called.

Do you really understand what is being shared here in reply to your childishness?

This is not a show to enjoy and witness 'debates' of carnality pattern like the world to see who falls and who stands, but realize individually, an order of the New Covenant has been established in whole/sound doctrine to the churches, the called gathered believers to all of them and must 'abiding' in JESUS's words and love towards one another and be fruitful, and on judgement day, to be accountable to all of them that has been established and written and taught by the HELP of the HOLY SPIRIT, also to grow and witness by the HELP of the HOLY SPIRIT and LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Let us Gentiles not be proud individually but be ashamed and turn to the LORD JESUS CHRIST in all our weaknesses being exposed, to find help and not perish to the the thinking and works of the flesh again and face second death.

'Workout now your salvation in fear and trembling believers, when the Light of the New Covenant is still shinning in the midst of our ignorance darkness of carnality/flesh, so that when gross darkness takes over, we will not stumble', in other simple spiritual words, not to fall into the snare of the devil to come to reign over the world.

The HOLY SPIRIT is grieving, witnessing all of us still in carnality/flesh struggling with each other. That is why we are a tasteless salt to the world, yet we find comfortable refuge in this forum and contending one another to justify who is right, with all the 'green' ranking to distinguish ourselves and by-standers post their 'likes' as spectators to the match.

Anyone here listening to the LORD JESUS CHRIST, 'in speaking what HE sees with the FATHER', according to HIS established, documented New Covenant and taught sound doctrine Spiritual knowledge order, have been given roughly from 2014 years ago, until now majority only in carnality/flesh grieving the HOLY SPIRIT placed in all of us to teach and guide, 'in order to be fully trained and fully equipped to do all kind of Good deeds'?

 

[pickles]

I understand the struggle with the arguing.
Ill share what has helped me, in not just the offence recieived, but to avoid causing offence.

Scripture says, do all things as unto the Lord.
Scripture also says, there is no offence in Christ.

What this has shown me is simple, when all I do is unto Jesus, then any offence given, is done unto Jesus, thus...
Because there is no offence in Jesus, the offence has been payed for, removed.

We all are just learning to live and do all in Jesus, if you look for people to be perfect, you will always be disapointed.
But, in knowing that His work is being done in all of us, to be compleated upon the day of Our Lord, then, if we look and seek Jesus first? This is when we will see the perfect in all who seek Jesus.

I hope you wont leave, but if you feel led to leave, then may God bless you and keep you always in Jesus.

God bless
pickles

 

[Elin]

Probably so but I think the bible tells us to reason with them out of the scriptures.

Which is what some of us are doing here.

However, their arguing is not for lack of Scriptural information, it is for lack of belief.

 

[Elin]

There is a difference between Christians and hypocrites.

Agreed. . . .

 

[newbirth]

Guys/ladies... I'm outta here. There is just too much arguing on the forum. And Im just as bad about it as some of you... but it's not good for my walk with God. So, God bless all... Stay strong in the Lord!

And stop arguing!

Jeremiah 12:5
If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

Hebrews 12:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

 

[Bookends]

[h=1]In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity - Augustine[/h]

 

[Elin]

i am sorry to say that you are still a child in your confession to Spiritual teachings of the New Covenant by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT about 'Agape'. 'Debate' is not according to the New Covenant of 'Agape'. It is just that we ourselves who are still in the flesh/carnality understand less to the things of above, like the world, trying to 'use force and harshness' because of our placed gifts in making others understand.

We are only messing up and causing division, rather than 'unity'.

Unity is only in the Truth.

There can be no unity of Truth and untruth.

This discussion is about Truth and untruth.

 

[just-me]

I have read some posts in this thread, and have contributed with scripture on many threads with contention and arguing. Most know what I believe at this point, and I am rebutted now without provocation just because of the preconceived thoughts of me in another person's mind. Then judgment begins to show others how wrong I am whether I am quoting scripture or not. In some cases all I have done was quote scripture and that is even argued against. I say to myself, "Good grief this is so messed up."

I agree we are to contend for the faith, and I agree that non-Christians will argue and downright hate the gospel of truth in some cases. Now with this that in mind, there is nothing in the Bible that says it's right for fellow believers in Christ to disagree and argue on a continuous basis. It may be for a short time but even Peter and Paul had their problems but, for the gospel's sake, it didn't last very long and agreement was accomplished. So if you are using that story for an excuse to continue in rhetoric that causes division, you're not gettin' it.

Starting, and enhancing arguments is to be observed by all of God's children. We are suppose to see where the division begins and mark those who intentionally start arguments and divide God's children against each other. Why is it continuous one might ask. The adversary is stirring the pot for the purpose of fracturing the church. He's done real good hasn't he? Divide and conquer is the plan in any war and in CC satan is winning.

I am frustrated with both sides of an argument that keep going and going. The reason is obvious to me. Both sides fail to mark those that cause division and put them on ignore. If this was practiced these frivolous arguments would short lived. Please people wake up. Now whoever has a rebuttal against what I've said, I will immediately put you on my ignore list with the 12 other people that are there already. I'm not impressed.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17)

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
(1 Corinthians 1:10)

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:3)

 

[fredjames]

Unity is only in the Truth.

There can be no unity of Truth and untruth.

This discussion is about Truth and untruth.

Fair enough, dearly beloved Elin, that you stand to the truth and acknowledge debates, in arguing and fighting to justify the truth.

This is what i am struggling to practice, whether i should stand or sit when i pray in 'a gathering/church', as a believer of LORD JESUS CHRIST?

 

[Elin]

I have read some posts in this thread, and have contributed with scripture on many threads with contention and arguing. Most know what I believe at this point, and I am rebutted now without provocation just because of the preconceived thoughts of me in another person's mind. Then judgment begins to show others how wrong I am whether I am quoting scripture or not. In some cases all I have done was quote scripture and that is even argued against. I say to myself, "Good grief this is so messed up."

I agree we are to contend for the faith, and I agree that non-Christians will argue and downright hate the gospel of truth in some cases. Now with this that in mind, there is nothing in the Bible that says it's right for fellow believers in Christ to disagree and argue on a continuous basis. It may be for a short time but even Peter and Paul had their problems but, for the gospel's sake,
it didn't last very long and agreement was accomplished.

Wrong analogy.

Paul never came to agreement with the Judaizers in the flock.

Much of what you castigate applies to Paul.

 

[RedTent]

I feel we should debate scripture. The Lord is opening up new understanding of His word, we are going into a new age.That happened in the past when Luther spearheaded a new age in understanding.Everyone sees changes happening now such as Jews returning to Israel.

Changes happened when Christ lived as a man and was crucified. The epistles are documents of men standing up for that change, and what a turmoil THAT was.There is always great turmoil in change.There is always a remnant who sees this change in the light of scripture and always men attacking those who lead.

I have noticed that each time there is a change, the ones opposed to any new understanding want to kill the leaders. That is shown on this site.One person says attacks are fine, for Christ and Elijah did it, yet scripture says that God has not given you and I that right.Scripture says not to do it.Here are some of the ways that even in this post there are people attacking.They accuse others of “judinizers” “cult agenda” “people are saying others must agree with them instead of to agree with God” “you are a child”.Those posters who use such tactics instead of the word almost always report distortions of the word.

If the change we see, as a watch of Jerusalem today points to, is of God then all those opposed will be silenced. Even the Catholic Church changed many of their ways because of the change Luther led.But the people who could understand the change in Luther’s day were not silent, they spoke up.

 

[didymos]

Guys/ladies... I'm outta here. There is just too much arguing on the forum. And Im just as bad about it as some of you... but it's not good for my walk with God. So, God bless all... Stay strong in the Lord!

And stop arguing!

You DO know this thread will only lead to MORE arguing, don't you?
Not that you care, you're already 'outta here' anyway.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Sadly, I agree with didymos..there is way too much arguing in the forums, about any and every topic you can think of.. This thread will only lead to more arguing and name-calling. As for debating scripture, that happens in every single thread in all of the forums!! LOL!! I shudder to see what this thread will inevitably become: yet another outlet to debate who's right and who's wrong..

 

[RedTent]

We are only messing up and causing division, rather than 'unity'. 'Unity' only take effects, each and everyone of us understand the New Covenant by the HELP of the HOLY SPIRIT, to learn as it is written in whole/sound doctrine. ?

I think bringing about unity is the key. Instead of using the blame game on this site, we can argue against what is opposed to unity. Many teach disunity in New Covenant/Old Covenant. Not anything to do with made better, but use it to say God is not one but there is disunity. I think we can object. Many are using Holy Law given to us to cause disunity rather than helping us learn proper use of law. The concept of work is used the same way by not using all scripture has to say about it. Disunity, and opposing the knowledge that God is one and speaks with one voice is the major work of the anti-Christ, and I think it is fine to oppose these ideas.

 

[kennethcadwell]

We should be working on unity instead of division.
The issue though is in the fact that throughout the 80's and 90's more people went to church on Saturday and Sunday and just listened to what their pastor said and went home and lived their life however they want the rest of the week.
Toward the end of the 90's and throughout the 2000's there has been more and more people reading the bible for themselves which has led to two outcomes; either a study into the scriptures and seeing the truth in scriptures that they have not been taught, or reading the English black and white bibles no matter what version and getting the wrong context from the scriptures that is actually being said. Plus you have the issue that has always taken place, and that is taking and going by only half or a few the scriptures and not others to get the full meaning.

We are to try to bring fellow brothers and sisters together in unity, but when you bring up the actually meaning, context, or the other scriptures they leave out. They don't want to listen do to being caught into their way of belief for so long that change is hard for them to accept. They then argue, debate, and even go as far as calling you blasphemer or condemned.

 

[just-me]

We should be working on unity instead of division.
The issue though is in the fact that throughout the 80's and 90's more people went to church on Saturday and Sunday and just listened to what their pastor said and went home and lived their life however they want the rest of the week.
Toward the end of the 90's and throughout the 2000's there has been more and more people reading the bible for themselves which has led to two outcomes; either a study into the scriptures and seeing the truth in scriptures that they have not been taught, or reading the English black and white bibles no matter what version and getting the wrong context from the scriptures that is actually being said. Plus you have the issue that has always taken place, and that is taking and going by only half or a few the scriptures and not others to get the full meaning.

We are to try to bring fellow brothers and sisters together in unity, but when you bring up the actually meaning, context, or the other scriptures they leave out. They don't want to listen do to being caught into their way of belief for so long that change is hard for them to accept. They then argue, debate, and even go as far as calling you blasphemer or condemned.

Agreed. The Bible clearly states that we are to exhort each other by the spirit endeavoring to keep unity within the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

This doesn't mean that we aren't suppose to correct each other with scripture in context (rightly dividing the word of truth), it means we are to have the attitude to edify each other in the spirit of peace. That doesn't include name calling or an attitude that clearly shows demeaning characteristics toward another fellow believer. We can discuss and communicate with an attitude of wanting to stay away from argument. If discussion continues without any edification (knowing it takes 2 to tangle or to make peace) it's time to hang it up and go on to another avenue where you an be useful for our Saviors glory. As I said before, it doesn't take long to know who is intentionally starting conflict. The Bible says to leave them alone who cause division. Pay attention to the attitude, both yours and others. If the attitude stinks, quite talking after you have said what needs to be said. You have the option of placing those types of people on your ignore list. Arguments will cease in time if we all do that.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I also believe unity is very important. There is far too much arguing. It would be so much simpler, and we wouldn't have all these problems, if everybody just agreed with me.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Agreed. The Bible clearly states that we are to exhort each other by the spirit endeavoring to keep unity within the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

This doesn't mean that we aren't suppose to correct each other with scripture in context (rightly dividing the word of truth), it means we are to have the attitude to edify each other in the spirit of peace. That doesn't include name calling or an attitude that clearly shows demeaning characteristics toward another fellow believer. We can discuss and communicate with an attitude of wanting to stay away from argument. If discussion continues without any edification (knowing it takes 2 to tangle or to make peace) it's time to hang it up and go on to another avenue where you an be useful for our Saviors glory. As I said before, it doesn't take long to know who is intentionally starting conflict. The Bible says to leave them alone who cause division. Pay attention to the attitude, both yours and others. If the attitude stinks, quite talking after you have said what needs to be said. You have the option of placing those types of people on your ignore list. Arguments will cease in time if we all do that.

Yes and that part about leaving them be and moving on is still the part that I struggle the most with because I hate to see some one who is astray in their learning and don't want to leave them still in-shrouded in false doctrine. I must learn to more often pray and leave it in our Lords hands to help and guide them, for I have tried to show them over and over scriptures that they in turn want to write off continuously.

 

[just-me]

I also believe unity is very important. There is far too much arguing. It would be so much simpler, and we wouldn't have all these problems, if everybody just agreed with me.

You're wrong!!! LOL you heathern you! I ain't right either. Of course I've learned that from many others that I agree with. (smile).