A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
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#1
I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT

Why Most Churches do not believe the Charismatic experiences are Real.


A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES


SEGMENT 1 of 9- - By: VCO

My purpose for writing this Bible Study is not to argue with my Pentecostal brothers and sisters, whom I love and respect sincerely. The sole purpose is to present what most non-charismatic Churches teach and believe on this highly controversial subject, showing how we arrive at our Biblical understanding concerning the gift of tongues and why we do not believe in the modern day tongues movement. First and Foremost, I consider the “gift of tongues” a very minor issue that certainly is not worth arguing about. As I have heard Dr. John MacArthur Jr. say, “I am much more concerned about those who gossip in a language that we all understand, than those who speak in an ‘unknown tongue’ that no one understands.” It saddens me however, to realize that this issue has been so blown out of proportion, that it has caused great splits in the Church. Despite the splits, we are still one body (1 Cor. 12:13), even if some of us don’t like to admit it. The following is what I believe to be the truth about this confusion (1 Cor. 14:33) over the “Gift of Tongues”.

In this Bible Study, I will strive to back up any statements that I make, with as much Biblical proof as possible. I absolutely believe the Bible, being the inspired Word of God, is the ultimate authority. The wisdom of men, opinions apart from Biblical proof, feelings, personal experiences, what we have seen with our eyes, etc.; are of little or no value when trying to prove something Biblically. Why, because all of those things can be manipulated by the human mind or Satan, but he cannot change the Word of God (1 Pet. 1:25). 2 Cor. 5:7 NIV, “We live by faith, not by sight.” Rom. 10:17 NKJV, “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” Mat. 24:35 NIV, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

Since most of us can agree that the Bible is the ultimate authority, I urge you to personally check everything I say, against what the Bible says. I believe it is our duty as Christians to put our faith in the Word of God, not in men. No matter how learned or how famous the Bible Teacher, he must withstand the test of Scripture. The Bereans even checked the Scriptures daily, to make sure Paul was teaching it right. Acts 17:11 NIV, “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” What this verse tells me, is not only is every Bible teacher to be put to the test by the Scriptures, but we through the Holy Spirit in us, have the ability to discern the truth and understand what the Bible means by what it says; if we will diligently search the Scriptures daily, (1 Cor. 2:14). Job 32:8 NIV, “But it is the Spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.” Mat. 7:7 NIV, “. . . seek” {diligently in the Greek} “and you will find . . .”

One of the most important ways we do this is by comparing what one verse says, to what other verses pertaining to the same subject say. You cannot ever use a verse in a way that contradicts another verse. God did not make any mistakes! God is perfect; therefore, His Word is perfect! Deut. 32:4, Ps. 18:30, Ps. 19:7, James 1:25, etc. God never changes (Mal. 3:6); therefore, His Word never changes. What it meant when it was written is what it means today. Mat. 24:35, Isa. 40:8, Heb. 13:8, & 1 Pet. 1:25. If a man uses a verse in a way that contradicts another verse on the exact same subject, it most certainly is that man who made the mistake, not God.

With all of this in mind, let us get in the study of what the Bible says about the “Gift of Tongues”. There are at least two types of “tongues” speaking. The ability to miraculously speak an earthly language that they had never learned is one {which is what I believe the apostles did on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:6}. I will for the purpose of this study call that the “Gift of Tongues” with a capital T, or the “Gift of Languages”. The other type of “tongues”, is the ecstatic speech or ecstatic utterances that are not a translatable earthly language {some times called “private prayer language”, “heavenly language that only God understands”, “tongues of angels”, “Baptism in the Spirit”, “the Holy Spirit offering up Utterances”, “ecstatic babble”, etc.} I will for the purpose of this study refer to this as “unknown tongues” with a small t in Italics, or “ecstatic utterances”.

We already know that the “Gift of Tongues or Languages” was first manifested or originated on the day of Pentecost by the apostles. When and where did the gift of “unknown tongues” or “ecstatic utterances” originate? Were the Corinthians the first to manifest “unknown tongues”, or did it begin before the Corinthian Church was founded?

If we start studying the history of religions in the world during the Bible times, we will discover that “unknown tongues”, actually began centuries before the day of Pentecost, in the pagan “mystery religions”, (the worship of Ashtoreth and her son Baal, the worship of Isis and her son Osiris, the worship of Aphrodite and her son Eros, the worship of Venus and her son Cupid, etc.). {Ref: historian Samuel Angus’s book “The Mystery Religions”.} The mystery religions all had their origin at the “Tower of Babel”, where the high priestess, Semiramis, demanded that the people worship her and her son Tammuz, whom she claimed was conceived by a sunbeam. That was a counterfeit of the “virgin birth”, and later she even claimed that Tammuz was killed by a wild boar and rose from the dead; another counterfeit of Christ. {Satan has always liked to imitate what God does, such as when Pharaoh’s magicians turning their staffs into snakes, Ex. 7:9-13.} When God destroyed the Tower of Babel, Gen. 11:1-9; and confused the language and scattered the people all over the world; they took with them their pagan counterfeit virgin and son system of religion. Because of the new languages, Semiramis and Tammuz now had new names. In Greece they were called Aphrodite and Eros, the goddess and god of love.

Now you must remember, that most of the Congregation at the Church of Corinth, had been involved in the worship of one of these “mystery religions”, before they were saved. 1 Cor. 12:2 NIV, “You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.” These pagan “mystery religions”, {such as the worship of Aphrodite, Eros, and Zeus}, were very popular in Greece, not only because of the orgies that sometimes followed the worship service; but mainly because of the exciting feelings that were generated in the service itself. They indulged in what they called “ecstasy” or “ecstasis” in the Greek language, which meant “to cultivate a magical, sensuous communion with deity”. They also sought after “enthusiasm” or “enthousiasmos”, which in the Greek language means “a state of euphoria induced on someone to make them semiconscious” (“slain in the spirit”), a trance-like state of mind. While under the control of these feelings and emotions, they frequently “danced out of control” (danced in the spirit), and spoke in “unknown tongues” that only the gods could understand. They were sure that this was definite proof that they had personally communed with the deity they were worshipping. Plato, the Greek philosopher, who lived from 427-347 B.C., referred to this euphoric state of ecstasy as “divine frenzy”.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
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#2
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 2 - - By: VCO


One of the ways, that the pagan priests taught their followers to speak in “tongues”, was by stimulating their minds with stirring music and telling them to say the word “batta”, over and over again as fast as they could, and the gods would turn it into a language that only the gods could understand. Some modern day “charismatic Churches” use this exact same method, only they have their followers who are seeking the “gift of unknown tongues”, say “Jesus” over and over again as fast as they can and tell them that then the Holy Spirit will turn it into a language that only God can understand. This is exactly how my wife was taught to experience the “gift of unknown tongues” in the Church she was raised in. A carbon copy of the pagan method almost word for word, and they had no idea that the Priests of Zeus and Aphrodite taught the very same thing. In all fairness, I do know that many Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches do not use that method, and that there are other ways to learn to speak in a “private prayer language” or ecstatic “unknown tongues”.

Interestingly, Jesus Himself used a form of the word “batta” in Mat. 6:7 NIV, where He said, “And when you pray, do not keep on babbling” (battalogeo) “like pagans,”. Notice that the word Jesus used (battalogeo) is a derivative of the same word (batta) that the pagans used to learn to speak in “unknown tongues” or a “private prayer language” that only the gods could understand. I believe this is a direct reference to that pagan “private prayer language”, which was nothing more than ecstatic babble.

Now when the Corinthians, who used to be pagans, became Christians; they did not totally understand the true nature of the “Gift of Tongues”. It was very easy for them, to just start doing what they had learned in their mystery religion worship services; and assumed that just because they were now Christians, it had to be the Holy Spirit that was now empowering them to speak in “unknown tongues”. Apparently, they had become so confused on this issue, that they could no longer tell the true Gift of Tongues from the counterfeit. That is why Paul had to write such a lengthy explanation of the Gift of Tongues and unknown tongues.

This, however, was only one of the many problems that the Corinthian Church was having, (Ref: “Spiritual Gifts” study notes by Dr. John MacArthur Jr., page 4.)

Divisions (1 Cor. 1:10-11)

Human wisdom (1 Cor. 1:18-25)

Human personality cliques (1 Cor. 1:12-17)

Carnality (1 Cor. 3:1-9)

Sexual perversion – fornication and incest (1 Cor. 5:1-8, 6:12-20)

Worldliness (1 Cor. 5:9-13)

Lawsuits (1 Cor. 6:1-8)

Rebellion against apostolic authority (1 Cor. 4:1-21)

Marital conflicts (1 Cor. 7:1-40)

Conflicts unmarried people have (1 Cor. 7:1-40)

Abuse of liberty (1 Cor. 8:1-13, 10:23-33)

Idolatry (1 Cor. 8:4-13, 10:1-22)

Pride (1 Cor. 8:1-3, 10:12)

Selfishness (1 Cor. 11:17-22)

Demon worship (1 Cor. 10:19-22)

Insubordinate women (1 Cor. 11:2-16)

Abuses of God’s intended roles for men and women (1 Cor. 11:2-16)

Abuses of the Lord’s Supper and love feast (1 Cor. 11:17-34)

Abuses and perversions of spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12:1 – 14:40)

Paul literally had to write 1 Corinthians, to straighten out the total mess they were in. 1 Corinthians is a letter of “condemnation”, NOT “commendation”. “Now, it is inconceivable that any one Church could have manifested these problems to the degree that the Corinthian Church did.” - Dr. John MacArthur Jr. That is also why I cringe whenever I hear someone say, “Well, we are just a modern day Corinthian Church.” That certainly is nothing to brag about, especially when you see just how many problems they had in that Church.

Paul refers to the specific problem of dragging into the Church the pagan “divine frenzy and unknown tongues” in 1 Cor. 12:1-3. The NIV reads, “Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray” (by feelings) “to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God” (the Gift of Tongues) “says, ‘Jesus be cursed’, and no one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord’, except by the Holy Spirit.” Notice that verse 3. begins with “Therefore”. That tells us that what follows was written because of what preceded the word “Therefore”. In verse 2. Paul was talking about how these ex-pagans used to be “carried away” emotionally while worshipping idols. Apparently, one of those ex-pagans, who thought he had the “Gift of Tongues”, but only had the counterfeit, stood up to do his thing and the moment he relinquished control of his vocal cords to begin his ecstatic utterance, Satan took control of his vocal cords and caused him to say in an earthly language that he did not understand, “Jesus be accursed”. However, obviously someone, perhaps one of those mentioned in 1 Cor. 1:11, or perhaps the “interpreter”, understood that language that the “tongues” speaker was using and knew exactly what he said and that he was cursing Jesus in the Sanctuary, while thinking he was using the “Gift of Tongues”. I believe that was the “final straw” that finally made them realize that the problems in the Corinthian Church were so serious, that they had to get Paul himself, to straighten it out.

Mat. 16:22-23, Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"
23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." (NKJV)

If Satan could use Peter’s mouth, when he was standing face to face with the Lord and speaking a language that Peter understood; how much easier would it be for Satan to control what we are saying, when we relinquish control of our vocal cords and have no idea what we are saying. Is it any wonder that Paul said:

1 Cor 14:19 (NIV), “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
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#3
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 3 - - By: VCO


I interviewed our Pastor, Neil Beery in 1988, who told me that he had personally seen on two occasions, years apart, people speaking in an “unknown tongue” in a Church, thinking it was of God, when it was obviously Satan or a Demon. The first time was in the early 1950’s, when he and a Missionary from Africa, that was visiting Pastor Neil Beery’s Church in Ohio, were invited to have the Missionary speak at the evening Service of a local charismatic believing Church. After the Missionary had shared with them about what was happening on the mission field in Africa, a woman stood up to Praise the Lord in her “unknown tongue”, but without her even suspecting anything was wrong, she began cursing at the Missionary in the tongue of the African tribe he had been working with. The Missionary grew pale and ran out of the Church, and Pastor Beery went after him to see what was wrong. He found the Missionary literally vomiting by a tree. Only then did Pastor Beery learn that the Missionary understood every word that the woman was saying, and that it was so repulsive that it literally made the Missionary sick. The Missionary said, “I never thought I would ever hear something so vial and evil being spoken in a Church.” Later efforts to explain to the charismatic Pastor what had happened, only met with skepticism and doubt, because tongues were always translated by an Interpreter in their Church.

The Second time this happened to Pastor Beery was several years later after he had moved to Oregon to Pastor a Church there. This time Pastor Beery himself had been invited to speak at a charismatic believing Church and later on during the Sermon, a man whose family had been part of that Congregation barged into the Church and started yelling “Hypocrites, you are all a bunch of Hypocrites!” The reason for his action and anger was a couple weeks before, while that Forestry Service worker was up in the mountains on a job, his house burned down at night, killing his wife and children. Since the fire, not one of the charismatic Church’s members, including the Pastor of that Church, had been to see that man to offer condolences or help of any kind, not even a place to stay. (1 John 3:17 KJV, “But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?”) While the man was raving and still calling them “Hypocrites!”, the charismatic Pastor’s wife ran back to the man to pray for him in her “unknown tongues”. When she began to speak in her “tongues” so-called gift, the man started yelling, “Lady stop! You do not know what you are saying! Lady stop!” The Forestry Service Worker then turned and ran out of the Church. It was obvious that the man understood exactly what the Pastor’s wife was saying in her “prayer language”, so Pastor Beery quickly closed the Service in Prayer, and went to find the Forestry Service Worker. It was a small town in Oregon, so it was easy to find him, and offered to pay for his supper. After taking him to a local restaurant for supper, Pastor Beery asked, “You understood what she said back there didn’t you?” The man said she was actually cursing at him, using more vulgar words than he had ever heard even an unsaved co-worker use. She was cursing in the Yaquis Indian language, a small remote tribe that live in the mountains near Tucson, Az. The man had learned that language several years before, while working for the Forestry Service in their village for several months. When Pastor Beery tried to explain to the charismatic Pastor, exactly what his wife had said; he said, “I’ll NEVER believe that, because I could feel the Spirit moving when she was speaking in tongues.”

If feelings are what moved the pagans to speak in tongues, then feelings are of no value in testing whether or not something is of God. If the “love of God” is not present in you, then neither is the Holy Spirit, 1 John 1:3-5. Perhaps the reason that Church did not meet their brother’s need is: instead of being concerned about others, they were too concerned about edifying self, 1 Cor 14:4 & 1 Cor 10:23, which Paul forbids. We are commanded in Rom. 14:19 KJV, “Let us therefore follow” (dioko – seek after) “after the things which make for peace, and” (seek after) “things wherewith one may edify another.” If we are seeking after the gift of “unknown tongues”, which edifies self, (1 Cor. 14:4), we are in direct disobedience and totally contradicting what we are told to do in Rom. 14:19. Christ did not command us to edify ourselves, He commanded us to “deny ourselves, Luke 9:23.

Paul further emphasizes this point in 1 Cor. 10:23-24 KJV, “. . . but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s.” It is clear from the context, that the subject verse 24 is talking about is “edification”. The KJV puts the word “wealth” in italics at the end of verse 24, which means it is not in the original language text. Other versions insert the word “good” or “well-being” in italics. However, if you read it without the words in italics, and therefore are reading it just like God intended it to be read, it becomes clear that if you must add a word to verse 24 in italics to clarify the subject, then “edification” is the best word to use. If Paul was going to change the subject from what he was talking about in the last sentence of verse 23, to some else all together in verse 24, then he would have stated the new subject. By not stating the subject at all in verse 24, it clearly refers back to the last subject being discussed; which was “edification”.

In 1 Cor. 8:1 NAS, Paul tells us what it is that edifies: “agape love”. Agape love is “selfless or self sacrificing” not “selfish or self edifying”. Therefore, when Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:4 KJV, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; . . .”; Paul is giving us a reason not to speak in “unknown tongues”, but rather, not a reason to seek to speak in “unknown tongues”. Also, as Peter stated: 1 Peter 4:10 (KJV), “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” It is therefore impossible to be obedient to 1 Pet. 4:10, concerning “unknown tongues”; as Paul made it clear that “unknown tongues” only edifies self, and not others. Are we seeking to edify others, or are we seeking to edify self? The true test of whether or not we have the Spirit in us, is whether or not we love one another, not whether or not we speak in “unknown tongues”. 1 John 4:12-13 KJV, “. . . If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#4
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 4 - - By: VCO


The Corinthian Church alone was so confused on the issue of “tongues”, that they could not tell the difference between the true gift and the false gift, 1 Cor.12:1-3. That is why Paul had to write the Corinthians such a long detailed explanation of this least important gift. Obviously, “Tongues” is not mentioned in any of the other doctrinal books of the New Testament, because only the Corinthians were confused about the true nature and purpose of the Gift of Tongues. Acts is not a doctrinal book, it is a history book. Specifically, it is the history of the “Apostolic Age”. You cannot teach doctrine (directive principles for the Church Age) out of a history book, any more that you can teach math out of a history book.

We know that “Tongues” and their interpretation was the least important gift, because it is always last in the list. According to Hebrew tradition, whenever you list a group of anything, you start with the most important and end with the least important. For example: whenever the 12 Apostles are listed, Peter is first and Judas is last (Mat. 10:2-4, Mark 3:14-19, Luke 6:13-16, & Acts 1:13-16); in the list of Spiritual fruit in Gal. 5:22-23, Love is first, and self control is last. In the list of Spiritual gifts in 1 Cor. 12:28 NKJV, NAS, RSV, NIV, etc., notice that even the gift of administrations is more important than the Gift of Tongues. That means that it would be more important to be gifted to serve as the Church Secretary than to speak in legitimate Tongues.

Even though the Gift of Tongues was designated the least important gift, it is still extremely important to be able to distinguish between the true gift and the false gift. Primarily because Satan can use the false gift to deceive and split the Church, Mat. 24:24. Let us therefore examine very carefully the characteristics of the true “Gift of Tongues”:

Acts 2:2 – it came with a noise like a violent, rushing wind and filled the whole house.
Acts 2:3 – a tongue as of fire rested on each one of them that spoke in “Tongues”.
Acts 2:4 – they spoke in earthly languages, the Greek word “glossa” is the word for an earthly language. They spoke specifically in languages that they had never learned, to Jews, Acts 5-6. Why specifically to Jews? 1 Cor. 14:21 NIV, “In the Law it is written: ‘Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people,’ . . .” (Notice it doesn’t say “all people”, it says: “this people”, which obviously refers to Israel only) Why only the Jews?

1 Cor. 1:22 KJV, “For the Jews require a sign, . . .” Were they believing Jews? No, 1 Cor. 14:22 NIV, says: “Tongues, then are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; . . .” They spoke to unbelieving Jews in their own native dialect (dialektos – Acts 2:8) as the Old Testament had prophesied, Isa. 28:11. “Dialektos” means that not only did they speak the correct language, but also the correct dialect complete with the correct accent and pronunciations. (For example: They speak English differently in England than they do in United States; they speak English with a different accent in the southern part of United States than they do in the northern part.)

Acts 2:6 & 8 – and every unbelieving Jew present heard in his own native dialect, accent and all. That’s why the unbelieving Jews were so surprised in verse 7 that these men were Galileans. They knew that these men were from Galilee and that Galileans were known to have a strong accent. {Like someone we hear speaking with a strong Irish accent, is obviously not from the USA. We can tell by the way they speak English.} They knew that these men were Galileans, yet they couldn’t even detect the slightest accent from these Galilean fishermen. They quite literally spoke each language like a born and raised native.

Acts 2:11 – Exactly what did they hear the apostles talking about? They heard them praising God by proclaiming “the wonderful works of God” that are recorded in the Old Testament. The unbelieving Jews would have been very familiar with these “wonderful works of God” from their study of the writings of the Old Testament prophets. They had been required memorization from their childhood on.

Mark 16:20 – Why did the Jews require a sign? Any time an Old Testament Prophet had some new words from God to add the Scriptures, (a new revelation from God), the Prophet confirmed that it really was from God by demonstrating a sign or miracle. The Jews also knew that the Old Testament Prophet Malachi (Mal. 3:6) had taught them that the Lord never changes. Therefore, if the apostles had some new revelation from God, they had better confirm it with signs and miracles, or they were not about to believe a word of it. “Tongues” therefore, were a confirming sign for the Gospels of Christ and the rest of our New Testament. Mark 16:20 (NIV) Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed His word by the signs that accompanied it.

1 Cor. 13:8-10 – The Seventh characteristic of the True Gift of Tongues is that it was only the men who publicly spoke to “this people”, and then even that would cease “when that which is perfect has come,”. {Notice it says “that”, NOT “He who”.} It is obviously a reference to an object that is perfect, and not a reference to Christ. “That which is perfect” is our completed Bible that includes everything from Gen.1:1 through Rev. 22:21 including the final “Amen”. (Psa. 19:7 & James 1:25) Yes, the apostles spoke in Tongues publicly to confirm the Words that became our New Testament, but apparently it was only the men that did so. Acts 2:7 (NIV), Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?”

There is no Scripture mentioning that the women ever spoke in Tongues publicly. If women did speak in Tongues at all, which is highly doubtful because women never spoke in the Worship Service; it could only have been in the upper room, as it clearly states that it was only the men who were publicly speaking to “this people” the unbelieving Jews. Therefore the true Gift of Tongues appears to have only been given to men. Did Tongues cease when the New Testament was complete? Absolutely, it disappeared out of the mainline Christian Churches totally by about the end of the First Century. After being virtually Non-existent in evangelical Christianity for over 1800 years, the modern day experience of “unknown tongues” was started by Agnus Osmund, at Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Ks. in 1901, (ref: 1 Tim. 2:11-12). In fact, in the modern “Charismatic Movement”, women are the majority who speak in “tongues” publicly, totally contrary to the example in Scripture. This also contradicts 1 Cor. 14:34 NKJV, “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; . . .”. That verse is directly in the context of Paul’s instructions on how the true Gift of Tongues was to be used. Since the New Testament wasn’t complete at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, and since the Church of Corinth was still meeting in the Jewish Synagogue where unbelieving Jews might be present; the purpose for the true Gift of Tongues was still in effect at Corinth.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,489
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#5
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 5 - - By: VCO


Further evidence that the true Gift of Tongues may have been for men only, is that Paul always refers to the gift in the masculine gender. {1Cor. 14:5 – “he”, 1Cor.14:13 – “him”, 1 Cor. 14:21 – “men”, 1 Cor. 14:27 - “man”, 1 Cor. 14:28 – “him”, etc.} Paul wrote the Letter to the Corinthians in the Greek language. Greek grammar dictates proper usage of the correct pronoun gender. Since we know Paul was a very educated man, even a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin at one time, Paul would have used a pronoun like “them” if he meant both men and women, and verse 14:34 would not even have been written. More importantly, we know God inspired every word of Scripture in its original language, (2 Tim. 3:16), and we know God does not contradict Himself. Therefore, the true Gift of Tongues was given to those men whom God had chosen to be involved in confirming the new revelation that became our New Testament.

The apostles knew that they had to confirm the Gospel and any other new revelations that they would be preaching and writing, therefore the sign gifts were that confirmation. Notice that in Mark 16:20 & Heb. 2:3, the verb is confirmed (bebaioô), past tense. Just like in the Old Testament, once the new revelation from God “was confirmed” with signs in front of a sufficient number of witnesses, it became accepted as proven Scripture with no need for any future confirmations. When the confirming purpose of the signs and miracles was completed, the signs and miracles themselves ceased. The same thing is true about the confirmation of the New Testament. (In 1Cor. 13:8 NAS, it says Tongues will “cease” or “pauo” – stop by themselves, “finished”. The word that describes how prophecy and knowledge will be “done away” is “kartargeo”, which means – to be rendered inoperative by an outside force, “abolished” or “nullified” when the ‘perfect thing comes’, in 1 Cor. 13:9-10. Notice that Tongues is not mentioned in verses 9 & 10, because Tongues cease by themselves when their purpose is finished and “they are not part of that which is partial”.)

The prophets and apostles did not continue to show signs and wonders indefinitely, because once the new revelation was confirmed (past tense), they had eye witnesses who could testify to that confirmation of God’s Word. In fact Roman Law, which was the law of the land at the time of Christ, stated that if you had 5 eye witnesses to anything, it was undeniably fact. (Jewish Law only required 2 or 3 witnesses – ref: 11 Cor. 13:1 and Deut. 19:15) I believe that is why Christ showed Himself to over 500 witnesses after the Resurrection, 1 Cor. 15:6, more than 100 times as many as required by Roman Law to be declared undeniably factual. Likewise, our New Testament was proven with signs before Jewish witnesses. In fact at the Day of Pentecost, the beginning of the confirmation of the New Testament, they had 3000 witnesses. Once it had been confirmed with at least 5 witnesses, it was no longer necessary to continue to confirm with signs that the new revelation was from God; just as Christ no longer continues to appear before men to confirm His Resurrection.

Heb. 2:3-4 NIV, “. . . This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.”

Notice the past tense verbs in Heb. 2:3-4; they had already stopped “confirming” the Gospel with miraculous signs, by the time Paul wrote Hebrews. Notice also that verse 4 speaks of the miraculous signs separately from the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They are not considered part of the “gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will”, to the Church. Notice that in verse 3, just as in Acts 2:43 and Acts 4:33, it is “those who heard Him” (the apostles) who confirmed with signs, not the Church in general. God specifically gave the Gift of Tongues to a selected few men of the “Apostolic Age” (according to His will), to be a confirming sign to the unbelieving Jews that the new revelation which the apostles were preaching was from God, just like the Torah.

The first Church was made up the 120 disciples, (Acts 1:5, these included the 11 apostles and 109 other men who had followed Jesus from the Baptism by John to the Day of His Resurrection, Acts 1:21-22. They chose Matthias from among the 109 to replace Judas as the twelfth apostle, Acts 1:25-26. The first Church gained 3000 new converts on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41, and those that the Lord added to their number daily after that, Acts 2:47.) In Acts 2:42-43, you will notice that the whole Church all devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, they all devoted themselves to the fellowship, they all devoted themselves to the breaking of bread, they all devoted themselves to prayer, and everyone was filled with awe. That is (godly “fear” in the KJV); but only the apostles were doing the miraculous signs and wonders. The rest of the church members were not doing the miraculous signs and wonders, they were in awe. The last half of verse 43, may limit the signs and miracles to only the 12, but it most certainly would not exceed the 120 mentioned in Acts 1:5, who had met the basic qualifications to be considered for the office of Apostleship, Acts 1:21-22, and Paul who received a special personal calling to the office of Apostleship, Acts 9:15.

Acts 4:31-33 NIV, “After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.” (not Tongues) 32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own,” (the same as in Acts 2:44-45) “but they shared everything they had.” 33 “With great power” (the miraculous signs and wonders) “the apostles” (not the rest of the Congregation) “continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus,” (ref: Mark 16:20), “and much grace” (not miraculous signs) “was upon them all.” Notice here again it is only the apostles showing the signs and wonders. The rest of them were witnessing boldly to unbelievers according to verse 31, when they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Do we speak the Word of God boldly to our unsaved friends and neighbors?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#6
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 6 - - By: VCO


In Acts 5:12, again we see that it was the apostles doing the miraculous signs and wonders, NOT the rest of the Congregation. Acts 5:12 NKJV, “And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. . . .” 2 Cor. 12:12 TLB, “When I was there I certainly gave you every proof that I was truly an apostle, sent to you by God Himself: for I patiently did many wonders and signs and mighty works among you.” If the miraculous signs and wonders are not ONLY for the apostles, they would not have been proof that Paul was a true apostle. Because no one else received these miracle gifts other than a one time incident to confirm a very special part of the new revelation that the Apostles were preaching, {such as Peter’s vision and what happened at Cornelius’ house}, Paul by showing signs and miracles proved that he was truly an apostle and that he had truly seen the resurrected Christ.

What about Cornelius? Well let’s look at that portion of Scripture too. Since what they are doing today is obviously not what the Apostles did, some say their gift of tongues is the kind that Cornelius received. Well, let’s see what kind of gift Cornelius and the men of his household demonstrated. Acts 11:17 NAS, says they received “the same (Gk. – “isos”, which means “equal”) “gift.” In Acts 11:15 NAS, we find out that “the Holy Spirit fell upon them, just as He did up us” (the apostles) “at the beginning.” (the Day of Pentecost). That means there had to be:

A rushing wind that filled the whole house.

Tongues as of fire sitting on the heads of those speaking in Tongues.

They had to be speaking an earthly language that they had never learned, to the unbelieving Jews present.

The unbelieving Jews had to hear them in their very own native dialect.

They had to be proclaiming the “wonderful works of God” in Tongues.

It had to be a sign to confirm some new revelation that God had given to the Apostles.

Only the men could have been speaking in Tongues.

If one of these seven characteristics of what happened on the day of Pentecost was missing, it would not have been the “same” (“isos”) gift, that came “just as” (“hôsper”) it did on the Day of Pentecost. The unbelieving Jews are Peter and the born again Jews that came with Peter, Acts 10:45-46. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but they qualify as “unbelieving” Jews because they did not believe that Peter’s vision (Acts 10:9-17) meant that God had also cleansed the unclean Gentiles, so that Jew and Gentile could worship together as one people, “the Church” (ref: Acts 10:28). Because they still considered the Gentiles to be unclean, they also did not believe that the Holy Spirit could ever enter a Gentile. Therefore when the Gentiles (Cornelius and the men of his household) received the Gift of Tongues on that one time, one incident basis; it forever confirmed Peter’s vision, including the entire text of the story, and proved that God now wanted the Jews and Gentiles to be one People, “the Church”, Acts 10:28, 11:9, & 11:18. If there had been any difference at all between what happened in Cornelius’ house and what happened on the Day of Pentecost, the Jews would never have believed, (because of Mal. 3:6), that God had cleansed the unclean Gentiles. They were very familiar with the pagan false gift of tongues* and would have automatically considered something different to be a counterfeit of the true Gift of Tongues and not the “equal” gift, as they called it in Acts 11:17. *(The Mystery Religions were very popular and well known throughout the entire eastern Mediterranean region.)

Since none of the seven characteristics of the true apostolic “Gift of Tongues” are present in the “modern day charismatic experiences”, no way would have Peter ever called them the “equal” gift, and he would have automatically labeled them some form of counterfeit. The “present day” so-called gift of tongues, is in no way the same as what the apostles demonstrated, but they do resemble or mirror what was being done in the pagan Mystery Religions. How then can they ever be considered “biblical”?

While I believe that only a very few isolated incidents of “tongues” are Satanically controlled; I do believe that the overwhelming majority of “tongues” speaking is nothing more than the same meaningless ecstatic babbling that was so popular in the pagan Mystery Religions before the time of Christ. It was very popular in the Mystery Religions because it made the speaker feel so good, that they assumed it just had to be of the gods. It is equally popular today in the “Charismatic Movement”, because it feels so good that they assume it just has to be of the Holy Spirit. In fact a popular expression in the Charismatic Movement is: “I could feel the Spirit moving!” Since when are feelings the test of whether something is biblical? It was and still is in my opinion a form of “learned behavior”. Anyone who has a strong enough desire to do this, (“seeking the Baptism of the Spirit”) can learn to speak in “tongues” when they release control of their vocal chords and allow themselves to be carried away by their emotions. In fact it has been proven that people who can be hypnotized are the type of people who learn to speak in tongues quickly.

This ecstatic babbling or the gift of “unknown tongues”, can be learned by: self hypnosis, or by watching others do it (we learn a lot by just watching others, babies do it all the time). It can be taught, or by working oneself up into a very excited emotional state, by swaying to stirring music, or by frenzied preaching, or by the power of suggestion, etc. That’s the way the pagans did it and it appears that is the same way it is being done today. It is natural phenomena, not super-natural phenomena.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#7
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 7 - - By: VCO


The gift of “unknown tongues” is not the “Baptism of the Spirit” either. The Baptism of the Spirit occurs when anyone truly accepts Christ as Lord of their life in their heart, Rom. 10:9. The “Baptism of the Spirit”, is the Holy Spirit’s ministry of immersing the new believer into the body of Christ, the very moment they truly believe. Rom. 6:3 NAS, “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus. . .” Do you see it there? Gal. 3:26-27 NAS, “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” 27 “For all of you who were baptized into Christ. . .” These verses are definitely not talking about Christian Water Baptism, which only pictures what has already taken place spiritually. 1 Cor. 12:13 NAS, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, . . .” Anyone who is teaching that the “Baptism of the Spirit” is something other than what these verses say it is, is contradicting what the Bible says in these verses. I pointed out at the beginning of this study, that you cannot use a verse in a way that contradicts another verse in Scripture on the same subject; it is therefore surely man who has made the error, when a teaching creates a contradiction between verses. I believe that there are no contradictions in the Word of God, when it is interpreted correctly. Notice also that at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, not all spoke in “Tongues”, but all had received the “Baptism of the Spirit”. 1 Cor. 12:30 NAS, “. . . do all speak in Tongues? . . .” In the original Greek grammar, the correct implied answer to all the questions in verses 29 and 30 is “No”.

Speaking in tongues is also not the “Filling of the Spirit”. Eph. 5:18-20 NIV, “. . . be filled with the Spirit.” 19 “Speak” (with tongues? NO! Speak) “to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in you heart to the Lord,” 20 “Always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.” If “tongues” were for the entire Church Age and a continuing part of the “Filling of the Spirit”, Paul certainly would have mentioned “tongues” in this list, in this doctrinal book. Notice that even the first church did not speak in Tongues when they were filled with the Holy Spirit, Acts 4:31 NIV, they “spoke the word of God boldly”. In other words, instead of trying to speak in Tongues or “unknown tongues”, they went about witnessing to the unsaved boldly when they were filled with the Holy Spirit, which is our “Great Commission” (Mat. 28:19-20). Peter also, in Acts 4:8-13, spoke the Word of God boldly to unbelievers when he was filled with the Holy Spirit. Notice in verse 13 the rulers and elders were astonished at how Peter and John had spoken boldly and authoritatively, just like Jesus. The filling of the Spirit is not receiving more of the Holy Spirit. God didn’t cut the Holy Spirit up into pieces to be served like a pie. When we were born again, we received all of the Holy Spirit. The real problem is that our selfish own will, gets in the way of allowing the Holy Spirit to “fill us” or “empower us” to do the Will of the Father. Therefore, it is not a question of how much of the Holy Spirit do we have, but rather “how much of ourselves have we yielded control of, to the Holy Spirit”. Only at those times when we are willingly sacrificing our will and totally submitting to the Lordship of Christ, (Luke 9:23), are we “Filled with the Spirit”, in other words, totally under the control of and empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the Will of God. A careful study of Col. 1:9-12 will reveal that God can fill those areas we are lacking in with the Spirit “so that we may live a life worthy of the Lord and please Him in every way.” Rom. 12:11 NIV, “Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.” Those times when we can honestly say in our heart, that we are living that verse; is when we can claim we are “filled” or “walking in the Spirit.” All those times that we are pursuing our own wants and desires, are when we are “walking in the flesh”.

Speaking in “unknown tongues” is not the “language of angels” either. Every single example of an angel speaking in the Bible, is in a known earthly language. When Paul uses the expression “tongues of angels” in 1 Cor. 13:1, it is merely a figure of speech, not a reference to some sort of secret language that angels speak. To paraphrase, all Paul is saying is, “Even if I speak in any earthly language, with an eloquent, resounding, authoritative voice, as if an angel was speaking; and I don’t have love; my words would be nothing more than a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal, “just a big noise” to those to whom I am preaching.”

The gift of “unknown tongues” is not “a heavenly language that only God understands”, either. Every time Jesus spoke to the Father, or prayed to the Father, (even in the Garden of Gethsemane, while the disciples slept), He spoke a known earthly language. Even when He died on the cross (Mat. 27:46), He called in a loud voice, “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?” in a known earthly language.

Matthew 27:46 (NKJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?"{GREEK} that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

Surely if God had His own private language, Jesus would have used it at that moment. Even when John was witnessing what “shall be”, when he was present in the very throne room of heaven (in the book of Revelation); everything by everyone there was said in a known earthly language. There is no biblical evidence at all, to support a private or secret heavenly language. The scary thing though, is that the expression “a heavenly language that only God understands” is directly linked to the pagan Mystery Religions and is mentioned as far back as 400 years before Christ. The only difference is they said their “unknown tongues” were “a heavenly language that only the gods understood”.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#8
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 8 - - By: VCO


The kind of “Gift of Tongues” demonstrated by the Apostles and Cornelius, is the only kind of “Tongues” that is biblical. Any other kind of “tongues” is a counterfeit of the true “Gift of Tongues”. You may have noticed that I put the word “Gift” in italics, because in 1 Cor. 12:1 it is in italics when associated with “Tongues”. That in itself seems to separate it from spiritual gifts that became the possession of the receiver. It was something of the Spirit for sure, but it did not say it was a “gift” for us to keep. That may be why it is not mentioned in the lists of Spiritual gifts in Romans 12:1-21 or Ephesians 4:1-24. The problem of why it had to be addressed in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians was that they could no longer tell the difference between the true “Tongues” and the counterfeit “unknown tongues” that they used to practice in their Mystery Religions. Sadly, I fear neither can many well meaning Christians today.

Mat. 6:7 NIV, “And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans,”

Mat. 12:39-40 NIV, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be

three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

This is the Laodicean Church Age or the age when the lukewarm church described in Rev. 3:14-22, increasingly becomes the dominant type of church and Christians. It is during this age especially, that more and more who think they are Christians are actually being led astray onto the “Broad Road”, Mat. 7:13. It was prophesied that there would be a great falling away from truth, 2 Th. 2:3. They are easily led astray because they trust their eyes, feelings, and experiences more than the Word of God. They assume that if it is miraculous, it has to be of God, forgetting that Satan has the power to do miracles too, as he did with Pharaoh’s magicians, whom Satan gave the power to turn their staffs to snakes, imitating the miracle God had worked through Aaron, Ex. 7:8-12. Trusting their eyes and feelings, instead of the Word of God, they follow the false prophets that are performing great signs, and miracles, as prophesied in Mat. 24:24. We are also warned about this in: Mat. 7:22-23 NIV, "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” God also refers to that false church on the “broad way” as the “Harlot” and the true Church as the “Bride”. Another word for “Harlot” is “Adulterous”. I believe this is thee “Evil and Adulterous Generation” that is described in Mat. 12:39. The nightly news and the popularity of false religions should tell us that. Along with the “evil” comes a viciousness never seen before.

Mat. 24:3 NIV, “. . . Tell us, they said, . . . what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?”

Mat. 24:24 NIV, “For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs, and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible.”

2 Tim 3:1-7 NKJV

1 “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:” {“perilous” (chalepos) - can be translated violent or vicious, which when we watch the nightly news is an accurate description.}

2 “For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,” {“lovers of themselves” - we live in a generation that is very self centered.}
3 “unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,” {“unloving” - in the KJV is “without natural affection”, doesn’t that describe the headlines of today?}
4 “traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,”
5 “having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!”
6 “For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,” {“led away” - again “feelings” are leading them astray, 1 Cor. 12:2}
7 “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

How can this not be the “evil and adulterous” generation described in Mat. 12:39? In that generation it says, many will be seeking a “sign”, and not until 1901 did Christians start seeking “sign gifts” again. It was only a few at first, then more, and more; yet verse 39 says “. . . none will be given it . . .” Therefore, if this is thee “evil and adulterous” generation, how can the current day “miraculous sign gifts” be anything but the fulfillment of Mat. 24:24? Not everything we say or do as born again Christians is of God, Rom. 7:15. Simply because someone can do something that appears to be supernatural, does not make it of God. It must square with Scripture, to be of God. Now, please don’t get me wrong. I love my charismatic brothers and sisters, and I respect those that teach the Gospel of Christ correctly; however, I do not believe that their “charismatic gifts” are of God. For the most part, I believe that their speaking in “unknown tongues” is nothing more than emotionally energized “ecstatic babble”. Several people have told me, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”. After thoroughly examining that bath water and the supposed baby in it, carefully comparing it to Scripture; it became obvious that it was a rubber doll. I believe that the modern day charismatic movement has grossly exaggerated the importance of what was the least important gift. Apart from having an unbelieving Jew present to “hear the wonderful works of God in his very own dialect”, even the true Gift of Tongues may not have been much more than a spiritual toy.

1 Cor. 13:11 KJV, “When I was a child I spake as a child” {Tongues} “. . . When I became a man” {spiritually mature}, “I put away childish things.”

Love is the true test of spiritual maturity (Mat. 7:20 & Gal. 5:22).

1 Cor. 13:4-5 NIV, “Love . . . is not self-seeking . . .”. Notice is says, Love is not self-seeking, yet it says in 1 Cor. 14:4 KJV, “He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, . . .”. Also in the very same letter Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:23-24 KJV, “. . . but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's . . .”.

1 Cor. 12:31 NAS, “. . . and I show you a still more excellent way.”

“LOVE” – the primary Spiritual Fruit is “more excellent” than “signs and wonders”, especially when you are trying to win the unsaved.

Mat. 7:20 KJV, “Wherefore by their fruits(NOT gifts) “ye shall know them.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#9
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 9 - - By: VCO


Some have told me, “We know that our ‘gift of tongues’ is real because someone always interprets it.” But are they really interpreting the “tongues”? Or, are they only doing what is expected, and equally caught up in the emotional frenzy of the charismatic experience? I read an article several years ago about some students at Dallas Theological Seminary that put the gift of interpretations to the test. While I do not think that their method was very nice, but it did prove the point. One of them memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew. Then that group of students attended a Worship Service at the largest Charismatic Church in Dallas. Waiting till members of the congregation started speaking in “tongues”, with another then standing to give the “interpretation”, THEN the student stood and boldly quoted the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, just as he had memorized it. Sure enough one of the same man that had “interpreted” others, stood and gave a very Biblical interpretation, and the whole congregation was Praising the Lord, not one word of it came out of the 23rd Psalm.

1 Cor. 14:27-28 NAS, “. . . let one interpret; but if there is no interpreter, let him” (“him” - the man who had the Gift of Tongues)keep silent in the church;”.

NOTICE that obviously only one man (“interpreter” singular) had the “gift of interpretations”, and obviously everyone knew who he was, or they would not know when the “interpreter” was not there. Until we can find a man who can miraculously interpret any verse spoken in any language; perhaps we had better obey what Paul said, “keep silent in the church;”. I absolutely believe that the true “Gift of Interpretations” would have enabled that man to miraculously interpret any language of any people of the world at any time it was spoken in the church. How else would you know if that person was praising the Lord or cursing Him in the church.

An inmate in one of my services recently, without asking me in advance, spoke in his “unknown tongues” and proceeded to give biblical sounding interpretation. Rather than disturb the Service, I went back to my sermon, and waited until after the Service to explain to him that the Dept of Corrections dictated that we needed to stay away from denominational barriers in the generic Protestant Service. I also told him that even if I believed in the modern day “tongues”, which I don’t, I could not permit it because there was no “interpreter”. He said, “Oh, but I have the ‘gift of interpretations’ too.” I then said to him in Turkish, (a language I partially learned while stationed there in the Air Force), “Hi, how are you? And, may God smile on you!” He just said, “Huh?” So much for the modern day “gift of interpretations”. When “Tongues” ceased near the end of the first century, so did the “gift of interpretations.” If anyone really has that gift today, he could easily get a very high paying job at the U.N.


Why do I believe that Tongues has to be done the exact way that the Disciples did it?

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change;…


I will put my faith and trust in the Word of God, not in feelings,​

not in personal experiences, and not in things I have seen.​



2 Cor. 5:7 NIV, “We live by faith, not by sight.”

🕮
Titus 2:13
VCO


Here are the Resource Materials that I have Used for this Study.

Resource Materials used:


Holy Bible – KJV, NKJV, NAS, NIV, RSV, TLB, & TEV

Vine’s - Dictionary

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible

Fausset’s Bible Dictionary

HOLMAN Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible/Hebrew – Aramaic & Greek Dictionary

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics

New Catholic Encyclopedia

Encyclopedia Americana

Encyclopedia Britannica

“The Mystery Religions” book by Samuel Angus

“The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues” book by John P Kildahl

“The Baptism & Gifts of the Holy Spirit” book by Dr. Merrill Unger

“The Charismatics” book by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” study guide by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“The Truth About Tongues” tape series by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Chuck Swindoll

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Dr. Ed Young

“Spiritual Gifts?” a tape by Ben Alexander (ex-Pentecostal & Assembly of God)

“The Gift of Tongues?” a tape by Dr. Jack MacArthur

“The Baptism of the Spirit” video tape by Dr. Gil Rugh (“Truth or Tradition” series)

Personal interview with Pastor Neil Beery (IFCA Interim Pastor at Calvary Baptist Church, Susanville, Ca.,1988)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,847
13,224
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#10
The best, most complete study I have read on the subject......cease, vanish and fail speaks volumes......very good job bro......!!!!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#12
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 3 - - By: VCO


I interviewed our Pastor, Neil Beery in 1988, who told me that he had personally seen on two occasions, years apart, people speaking in an “unknown tongue” in a Church, thinking it was of God, when it was obviously Satan or a Demon. The first time was in the early 1950’s, when he and a Missionary from Africa, that was visiting Pastor Neil Beery’s Church in Ohio, were invited to have the Missionary speak at the evening Service of a local charismatic believing Church. After the Missionary had shared with them about what was happening on the mission field in Africa, a woman stood up to Praise the Lord in her “unknown tongue”, but without her even suspecting anything was wrong, she began cursing at the Missionary in the tongue of the African tribe he had been working with. The Missionary grew pale and ran out of the Church, and Pastor Beery went after him to see what was wrong. He found the Missionary literally vomiting by a tree. Only then did Pastor Beery learn that the Missionary understood every word that the woman was saying, and that it was so repulsive that it literally made the Missionary sick. The Missionary said, “I never thought I would ever hear something so vial and evil being spoken in a Church.” Later efforts to explain to the charismatic Pastor what had happened, only met with skepticism and doubt, because tongues were always translated by an Interpreter in their Church.

The Second time this happened to Pastor Beery was several years later after he had moved to Oregon to Pastor a Church there. This time Pastor Beery himself had been invited to speak at a charismatic believing Church and later on during the Sermon, a man whose family had been part of that Congregation barged into the Church and started yelling “Hypocrites, you are all a bunch of Hypocrites!” The reason for his action and anger was a couple weeks before, while that Forestry Service worker was up in the mountains on a job, his house burned down at night, killing his wife and children. Since the fire, not one of the charismatic Church’s members, including the Pastor of that Church, had been to see that man to offer condolences or help of any kind, not even a place to stay. (1 John 3:17 KJV, “But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?”) While the man was raving and still calling them “Hypocrites!”, the charismatic Pastor’s wife ran back to the man to pray for him in her “unknown tongues”. When she began to speak in her “tongues” so-called gift, the man started yelling, “Lady stop! You do not know what you are saying! Lady stop!” The Forestry Service Worker then turned and ran out of the Church. It was obvious that the man understood exactly what the Pastor’s wife was saying in her “prayer language”, so Pastor Beery quickly closed the Service in Prayer, and went to find the Forestry Service Worker. It was a small town in Oregon, so it was easy to find him, and offered to pay for his supper. After taking him to a local restaurant for supper, Pastor Beery asked, “You understood what she said back there didn’t you?” The man said she was actually cursing at him, using more vulgar words than he had ever heard even an unsaved co-worker use. She was cursing in the Yaquis Indian language, a small remote tribe that live in the mountains near Tucson, Az. The man had learned that language several years before, while working for the Forestry Service in their village for several months. When Pastor Beery tried to explain to the charismatic Pastor, exactly what his wife had said; he said, “I’ll NEVER believe that, because I could feel the Spirit moving when she was speaking in tongues.”

If feelings are what moved the pagans to speak in tongues, then feelings are of no value in testing whether or not something is of God. If the “love of God” is not present in you, then neither is the Holy Spirit, 1 John 1:3-5. Perhaps the reason that Church did not meet their brother’s need is: instead of being concerned about others, they were too concerned about edifying self, 1 Cor 14:4 & 1 Cor 10:23, which Paul forbids. We are commanded in Rom. 14:19 KJV, “Let us therefore follow” (dioko – seek after) “after the things which make for peace, and” (seek after) “things wherewith one may edify another.” If we are seeking after the gift of “unknown tongues”, which edifies self, (1 Cor. 14:4), we are in direct disobedience and totally contradicting what we are told to do in Rom. 14:19. Christ did not command us to edify ourselves, He commanded us to “deny ourselves, Luke 9:23.

Paul further emphasizes this point in 1 Cor. 10:23-24 KJV, “. . . but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s.” It is clear from the context, that the subject verse 24 is talking about is “edification”. The KJV puts the word “wealth” in italics at the end of verse 24, which means it is not in the original language text. Other versions insert the word “good” or “well-being” in italics. However, if you read it without the words in italics, and therefore are reading it just like God intended it to be read, it becomes clear that if you must add a word to verse 24 in italics to clarify the subject, then “edification” is the best word to use. If Paul was going to change the subject from what he was talking about in the last sentence of verse 23, to some else all together in verse 24, then he would have stated the new subject. By not stating the subject at all in verse 24, it clearly refers back to the last subject being discussed; which was “edification”.

In 1 Cor. 8:1 NAS, Paul tells us what it is that edifies: “agape love”. Agape love is “selfless or self sacrificing” not “selfish or self edifying”. Therefore, when Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:4 KJV, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; . . .”; Paul is giving us a reason not to speak in “unknown tongues”, but rather, not a reason to seek to speak in “unknown tongues”. Also, as Peter stated: 1 Peter 4:10 (KJV), “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” It is therefore impossible to be obedient to 1 Pet. 4:10, concerning “unknown tongues”; as Paul made it clear that “unknown tongues” only edifies self, and not others. Are we seeking to edify others, or are we seeking to edify self? The true test of whether or not we have the Spirit in us, is whether or not we love one another, not whether or not we speak in “unknown tongues”. 1 John 4:12-13 KJV, “. . . If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.”
I knew several baptists that secretly drank and ran around on their wives.
Under your error by association ,we are now free to label the entire baptist organization as anathema.

Plumbers as well since i once saw one doing xyz
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#13
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES


....and non biblical "understanding"
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
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#14
I concur. Thank you, VCO.
You are concurring to this.
A butcher job;

1 Cor. 13:4-5 NIV, “Love . . . is not self-seeking . . .”. Notice is says, Love is not self-seeking, yet it says in 1 Cor. 14:4 KJV, “He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, . . .”. Also in the very same letter Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:23-24 KJV, “. . . but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's . . .”.

How rediculous to think God does not edify.

The WORD OF GOD DECLARES; "All scriptire is inspired by God and is profitable for instruction,rebuke,and EDIFICATION"

So silly how ceastionists condemn God himself for edifying his children.
What evil is spawned over attacking Gods power????
And note how vco left off " my mind is unfruitful"
I wonder why????
Cessationism is the art of cherrypicking and spin.
It begins. It has a starting place of preconcieved notions. It is a notion based on the assumption that Gods power has evaporated.
From that starting place they proceed.
 

Absolutely

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#15
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful
 

Absolutely

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#16
"I also told him that even if I believed in the modern day “tongues”, which I don’t, I could not permit it because there was no “interpreter”. He said, “Oh, but I have the ‘gift of interpretations’ too.” I then said to him in Turkish, (a language I partially learned while stationed there in the Air Force), “Hi, how are you? And, may God smile on you!” He just said, “Huh?” So much for the modern day “gift of interpretations”. When “Tongues” ceased near the end of the first century, so did the “gift of interpretations.” If anyone really has that gift today, he could easily get a very high paying job at the U.N."

Jesus could do mo miracles in his hometown.
What could possibly stop the operation of the supernatural?
Cessationist would answer "so much for Jesus having any power,anywhere. He must be a fraud since i never believed he had any"
 

Absolutely

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#18
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 9 - - By: VCO


Some have told me, “We know that our ‘gift of tongues’ is real because someone always interprets it.” But are they really interpreting the “tongues”? Or, are they only doing what is expected, and equally caught up in the emotional frenzy of the charismatic experience? I read an article several years ago about some students at Dallas Theological Seminary that put the gift of interpretations to the test. While I do not think that their method was very nice, but it did prove the point. One of them memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew. Then that group of students attended a Worship Service at the largest Charismatic Church in Dallas. Waiting till members of the congregation started speaking in “tongues”, with another then standing to give the “interpretation”, THEN the student stood and boldly quoted the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, just as he had memorized it. Sure enough one of the same man that had “interpreted” others, stood and gave a very Biblical interpretation, and the whole congregation was Praising the Lord, not one word of it came out of the 23rd Psalm.

1 Cor. 14:27-28 NAS, “. . . let one interpret; but if there is no interpreter, let him” (“him” - the man who had the Gift of Tongues)keep silent in the church;”.

NOTICE that obviously only one man (“interpreter” singular) had the “gift of interpretations”, and obviously everyone knew who he was, or they would not know when the “interpreter” was not there. Until we can find a man who can miraculously interpret any verse spoken in any language; perhaps we had better obey what Paul said, “keep silent in the church;”. I absolutely believe that the true “Gift of Interpretations” would have enabled that man to miraculously interpret any language of any people of the world at any time it was spoken in the church. How else would you know if that person was praising the Lord or cursing Him in the church.

An inmate in one of my services recently, without asking me in advance, spoke in his “unknown tongues” and proceeded to give biblical sounding interpretation. Rather than disturb the Service, I went back to my sermon, and waited until after the Service to explain to him that the Dept of Corrections dictated that we needed to stay away from denominational barriers in the generic Protestant Service. I also told him that even if I believed in the modern day “tongues”, which I don’t, I could not permit it because there was no “interpreter”. He said, “Oh, but I have the ‘gift of interpretations’ too.” I then said to him in Turkish, (a language I partially learned while stationed there in the Air Force), “Hi, how are you? And, may God smile on you!” He just said, “Huh?” So much for the modern day “gift of interpretations”. When “Tongues” ceased near the end of the first century, so did the “gift of interpretations.” If anyone really has that gift today, he could easily get a very high paying job at the U.N.


Why do I believe that Tongues has to be done the exact way that the Disciples did it?

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change;…


I will put my faith and trust in the Word of God, not in feelings,​

not in personal experiences, and not in things I have seen.​



2 Cor. 5:7 NIV, “We live by faith, not by sight.”

🕮
Titus 2:13
VCO


Here are the Resource Materials that I have Used for this Study.

Resource Materials used:


Holy Bible – KJV, NKJV, NAS, NIV, RSV, TLB, & TEV

Vine’s - Dictionary

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible

Fausset’s Bible Dictionary

HOLMAN Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible/Hebrew – Aramaic & Greek Dictionary

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics

New Catholic Encyclopedia

Encyclopedia Americana

Encyclopedia Britannica

“The Mystery Religions” book by Samuel Angus

“The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues” book by John P Kildahl

“The Baptism & Gifts of the Holy Spirit” book by Dr. Merrill Unger

“The Charismatics” book by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” study guide by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“The Truth About Tongues” tape series by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Chuck Swindoll

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Dr. Ed Young

“Spiritual Gifts?” a tape by Ben Alexander (ex-Pentecostal & Assembly of God)

“The Gift of Tongues?” a tape by Dr. Jack MacArthur

“The Baptism of the Spirit” video tape by Dr. Gil Rugh (“Truth or Tradition” series)

Personal interview with Pastor Neil Beery (IFCA Interim Pastor at Calvary Baptist Church, Susanville, Ca.,1988)
Thats like going to a plumber to learn the pitfalls in photography
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#19
1 Cor. 14:27-28 NAS, “. . . let one interpret; but if there is no interpreter, let him” (“him” - the man who had the Gift of Tongues) “keep silent in the church;”.

NOTICE that obviously only one man (“interpreter” singular) had the “gift of interpretations”, and obviously everyone knew who he was, or they would not know when the “interpreter” was not there. Until we can find a man who can miraculously interpret any verse spoken in any language; perhaps we had better obey what Paul said, “keep silent in the church;”. I absolutely believe that the true “Gift of Interpretations” would have enabled that man to miraculously interpret any language of any people of the world at any time it was spoken in the church. How else would you know if that person was praising the Lord or cursing Him in the church.
I would think the interpreter is always God. The same who teaches, comforts and brings to our memory the things he has taught us. He warns us in 1 John 2 in regard to the methodology of the devil it is that kind of spirit that says men must teach us "the spirit of the antichrist" as those who walk by sight..

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV)We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


I would suggest that we do not know him after our own private interpretations as personal commentaries there must be differences seeing God has made us different . For what would any person have that was not freely given of God?

When the three thousand heard the word it worked in them to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness.

The be silent I believe would be if you speak and no one understands other than your self. The Holy Spirit is not interpreting His thoughts in another tongue. Neither would understand the other .It would be like two speaking gibberish. It must edify two which represents the church .Where two or three gather together according to His word he is there . When one, be silent or you will be speaking into the air..

Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be aforeigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.1 Corinthians14:11-12
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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#20
To be honest this biblical exergisis misses out on the blessing of spiritual gifts to the church.
Now there are non-believers among believers and things not of God spoken as if they are of God.

What would be honest is Gods encounters of tongues.
I have read of people on trains being spoken to by a believer who was speaking in tongues.
In our church, someone spoke in their language and another unknowingly translated the
prayer word for word as the next prayer.

So it is easy to doubt or create examples where evil has been done, or the fake been achieved.
What is simply not able to doubt Paul hoped all believers spoke in tongues and today
people experience the Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues.

Funnily just as God can use tongues to bless, unbelievers can be possessed and use it to curse.

What is sad is when rather than trusting Gods blessing and His words in the believers lives,
other ideas are used to judge and condemn them.

But John is simple. Confess Jesus came in the flesh for the forgivenss of sins and rose again
from the dead, and the Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Nothing overthrows love in Christ and His word, and as long as this is followed all is good.