About forgive

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soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#1
Do you really thinking about you could really forgive sinner and others ?
I know that we may really tell our self , we could forgive others.
but truth is when we face it, we can't really forgive others in heart, only in mind, no action .

The bible tells us, No one can boast of his good deeds ,cuz no one is good but God.

My point is,
What if we really forgive each others in heart, I mean true forgive in heart not only in mind, not only you say you could forgive but can't.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,226
6,525
113
#2
Any time youu witness someone who claims to love Jesus Yeshua pointing the finger at anyone for being a sinner and unforgiveable, you know you are in the midst of false brethren.
He who has committed the least of sins is guilty of commiting them all for whoever breaks the leeast of the laws has broken them all.
Now, sin is breaking th elaw.
If you see people who claim to love Jesus wWho has offered forgiveness for all who believe Him finger pointing in order to appear above others, you know you are notin the family of our Father. Run.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,157
6,521
113
#3
Do you really thinking about you could really forgive sinner and others ?
I know that we may really tell our self , we could forgive others.
but truth is when we face it, we can't really forgive others in heart, only in mind, no action .
I think this is broad brush painting ALL Christians as having a lack of faith and Christian love in their hearts. You may be speaking for yourself, and/or someone you know, but I do not believe you can speak for all Christians.

Personally, I have been wronged in the past, and I have forgiven the responsible party. Both in mind and heart. In fact, two of those peoples became very good friends, and one became a Bible Study partner for a few years.

Each individual is different, and we must be careful about categorizing all Believers into a "nutshell" based on the few we know.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,941
4,868
113
#4
I think this is broad brush painting ALL Christians as having a lack of faith and Christian love in their hearts. You may be speaking for yourself, and/or someone you know, but I do not believe you can speak for all Christians.

Personally, I have been wronged in the past, and I have forgiven the responsible party. Both in mind and heart. In fact, two of those peoples became very good friends, and one became a Bible Study partner for a few years.

Each individual is different, and we must be careful about categorizing all Believers into a "nutshell" based on the few we know.
Amen , forgiving is something the father teaches his born children

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,491
449
83
68
#5
Forgiving others should be split into two parts. 1) Forgiving those who wronged us personally and 2) Forgiving those who wrong the Lord.

For the true believer, forgiving those who wrong us should be the easiest. We ourselves are guilty of wronging others and certainly want to be forgiven. Therefore, this falls into the category of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. All believers should strive hard not to create offense but when and if an offence occurs, even quicker to seek forgiveness.

True forgiveness of others, is marked by forgetfulness. If one has truly forgiven another, then the offense is truly forgotten. This is difficult to accomplish in our imperfect natures. Only God has perfect forgetfulness. Scripture teaches that God will put away the sins of His people, as far as east is from west and shall remember them no more. This is perfect forgetfulness. One cannot be said to have forgiven another, if the first thing that happens upon an offence by the other, is to drag up past offences. Believers must learn to forgive and then let the offence go, never to be spoken of again or to be brought to mind. The later, is far more difficult.

Forgiving one who has wronged the Lord, is far more difficult still because it involves the Truth of God's Holy Word and ourselves. When one hears the Truth of the Lord perverted by another, that one is effected as if it were a personal attack. Personal because it is an attack upon whom the believer loves. To resolve our personal feelings, we should remember and live by this great principle: If it were not for the Grace of God, so go I. A person, who is still in darkness, should not be looked upon as lowlier than the one in the Light. The one in the Light has nothing to boast about. His/her position has been secured by Grace. Therefore, the one in darkness should be pitied and not looked down upon.

However, the perversion of the Truth, should not be excused nor forgiven by true believers. It is the believers task, to witness for and defend the Truth daily. If the person speaking forth these perversions, is not placed under the blood of Christ, then these perversions will be used against them, on the day of the final Judgement.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,438
1,385
113
#6
I've been on the receiving and giving end of forgiveness... much more on the giving.

One time I was dealing with a particular sin that had its roots in a relationship I had when I was younger. It was a person I trusted and he abused that trust. I forgave him. In my life I harbored no ill will toward him I just knew there was unfinished business.

After I released him of any debt he owed me and forgave him, within the hour I received a call from him. He had tickets to a golf event (valued at around $1000) he could not attend and he offered them to me for no cost. I recognized the Lord in it, He was showing me that the work had been complete and that what was lost would be restored to me.

I was reminded of Isaiah 60:7
"All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together to you,
The rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you;
They shall ascend with acceptance on My altar,
And I will glorify the house of My glory."


Nebaioth and Kedar are the first and second born sons of Ismael. The present-day Arabs are descendants of this line. Here, they are ascending to the Living God's throne and His house. Currently, the Arabs are under the bondage of Islam and the demon Allah. But one day they will (the Arabs, descendants of Ismael) turn to the living God. This is how God prefers to plunder the houses of our enemies: by rescuing them as the Lamb of God so that they will willfully surrender their possessions to the Lord, just as all do, who give up their lives for the Lord.

In my obedience of forgiveness, I denied the enemy his right to steal from me and, in return, the Lord filled the loss to the point of overflowing.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#7
Do you really thinking about you could really forgive sinner and others ?
I know that we may really tell our self , we could forgive others.
but truth is when we face it, we can't really forgive others in heart, only in mind, no action .

The bible tells us, No one can boast of his good deeds ,cuz no one is good but God.

My point is,
What if we really forgive each others in heart, I mean true forgive in heart not only in mind, not only you say you could forgive but can't.
Not sure what you mean by in heart?

Forgiving from the heart does not mean it's done from positive emotions, it's done out of love, that love being AGAPE.

The same love that Jesus had when he said on the cross "Father forgive them for they don't know what they are doing"

No fuzzy wuzzy feelings.

I came to that point with my sexual abuser.
I visited him in hospital before he died, prayed for him on his deathbed and sorted out his estate.

When God asked me to do this to start with I point blanked refused.
I said "When he is dead then I will be free"

He said to me "Let us go down"

God kept pushing me and after the 4th time I said no he said to me

"What part of us are you not getting?
"I'm coming with you"

This was before he actually went into hospital.
I would visit occasionally because I loved my foster mum.
So the last time I did that (as she had a severe stroke not long after) I sat with my abuser in the living room (foster dad and God revealed a lot concerning him and his past and upbringing)

Anyway that weekend was the start of my forgiveness process.
When he was taken into hospital a few weeks later unexpectedly I was called by the hospital and I said I cannot come down.

I put the phone the phone down and God said to me again.
"Let us go down"

So I did and as said prayed for him on his deathbed and sorted out his estate.

I came to realise the following per the following quote

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and to realise the prisoner was you"
Lewis B Smedes.

I came to realise that had I not forgiven him from my heart before he died than I would not actually be free when he died.

When we cannot forgive God will help us to do so.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#8
Post a bit long sorry about that.
Just thought I would post it.
No worries if anyone does not want to read it.

When I was leading a small church group I prepared this.

Tonight's command is about forgiveness.

Matthew 18:21-22
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

The Bible has plenty to say about forgiveness. Where the Old Testament focuses mainly on God's forgiveness of individuals or groups, the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels also address how human beings can and should forgive each other.

The word forgive in the bible can be translated as follows. To send away to send forth, yield up, to expire, to let go, let alone, let be, to disregard, give up a debt, forgive, to remit to give up, keep no longer.

In certain contexts, forgiveness is a legal term for absolving or giving up all claims on account of debt, loan, obligation or other claims.

Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.

What is forgiveness?

It is a conscious choice that we make. Whether the person who hurt us apologises or not.
It is a shift in thinking towards someone who has hurt you.
It is letting go of the need for revenge and ill will.
It is choosing to remember no more what has been done to you.
It is acknowledging the pain and hurt you feel and walk in.
It is giving it up to God allowing him the right to take care of justice, his perfect justice.

What forgiveness is not.

It is not reconciliation.
It does not mean you have to restore a relationship.
It is not waiting for an apology before forgiving.
It is not always having to tell someone that we have forgiven them.
It is not just merely forgetting.
Is is not condoning or excusing what has been done.
It's not allowing the offence to recur again and again.
It does not replace justice. If an act against you is criminal you are free to instigate legal justice.

Consequences of unforgiveness.

Unforgiveness is a chain that will wrap itself around you. It will pull tighter and tighter. It will sap the very life out of you.
It will make you miserable, angry, resentful. It will affect you health, cause anxiety, which leads to high blood pressure, release chemicals in your body that further increases anxiety, depression along with with physical symptoms of heart palpitations, breathing problems, tingling in your fingers and feet, not being able to sleep, not being able to function. These physical symptoms bring fear that further compound the physical and emotional symptoms.

MORE IMPORTANTLY IT AFFECTS OUR RELATIONSHIPS, with other people that we have no need to forgive. We can withdraw or guard against friendships, be grumpy, irritable, mistrust and so on.

If it affects our relationships with other people you can guarantee it will affect our relationship with God.

The fact is, in the eyes of God unforgiveness is a sin. It can hinder our prayers, it will hinder our spiritual growth and it will hinder our witness.

Consequences of forgiveness.

First of all it helps with all the health issues mentioned above.
We see relationships with those around us in a different light.
We may see relationships restored.
The above are tangible benefits.

When we repent (make a conscious decision to forgive) of unforgiveness then we feel better about our relationship with God, we feel closer to God, we find it easier to come before him, speak to him, spend time him.
Forgiveness is a one time event (what I mean is that at some point you choose to give it up) yet dealing with the consequences can be a process.

When we acknowledge the hurt and pain and any other negative emotion, the act of merely forgiving does not necessarily heal the negative aspects that we suffer.

This is where we are to bring it before God and ask him to heal us. These chains God wants to break, to heal, restore to you an inner peace, replace anger with love.

If we have allowed chains to wrap themselves around us they start to loosen when we allow God to work. When our chains are gone then we have FREEDOM.

This is the ultimate consequence and priceless benefit of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not just about better health and life satisfaction. It’s not just an aid for reducing stress and fighting depression. It is about becoming by grace what God is by nature: a person who loves, a person who forgives, a person who cares for the salvation of the entire world, one soul at a time.

Theologian Lewis Smedes writes, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. (Martin Luther King, Jr)

Never forget the three powerful resources you always have available to you: love, prayer, and forgiveness. (H. Jackson Brown, Jr.)

When you forgive, you in no way change the past - but you sure do change the future. (Bernard Meltzer)

To err is human; to forgive, divine. (Alexander Pope)

Footnote:

Secular psychology in the 1980's started to incorporate the principle of forgiveness into counselling. Even in the secular world there is a realisation that forgiveness plays a major part in the lives of those they counsel. So a biblical principle is slowly working its way into the non religious world around us.

They do however focus on the aspect of letting go, it's health benefits and coping mechanisms for anger etc. There are even documented steps to forgiveness programs that they follow.

Where they stop though is the fact then we have a Father who wants to heal pain an hurt. Our Father does not want to give us coping mechanisms he wants to dig it right out of us and replace it pure unadulterated love.

When I have talked to non Christians who struggle with hurt and pain I talk about forgiveness in the secular sense but then say, "Why cope with it when God wants to heal it?

The majority accept the concept of forgiveness but not God healing it (that comes down to faith)

Nevertheless revealing the need to forgive in the first place is the right thing to do.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,941
4,868
113
#9
Forgiving others should be split into two parts. 1) Forgiving those who wronged us personally and 2) Forgiving those who wrong the Lord.

For the true believer, forgiving those who wrong us should be the easiest. We ourselves are guilty of wronging others and certainly want to be forgiven. Therefore, this falls into the category of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. All believers should strive hard not to create offense but when and if an offence occurs, even quicker to seek forgiveness.

True forgiveness of others, is marked by forgetfulness. If one has truly forgiven another, then the offense is truly forgotten. This is difficult to accomplish in our imperfect natures. Only God has perfect forgetfulness. Scripture teaches that God will put away the sins of His people, as far as east is from west and shall remember them no more. This is perfect forgetfulness. One cannot be said to have forgiven another, if the first thing that happens upon an offence by the other, is to drag up past offences. Believers must learn to forgive and then let the offence go, never to be spoken of again or to be brought to mind. The later, is far more difficult.

Forgiving one who has wronged the Lord, is far more difficult still because it involves the Truth of God's Holy Word and ourselves. When one hears the Truth of the Lord perverted by another, that one is effected as if it were a personal attack. Personal because it is an attack upon whom the believer loves. To resolve our personal feelings, we should remember and live by this great principle: If it were not for the Grace of God, so go I. A person, who is still in darkness, should not be looked upon as lowlier than the one in the Light. The one in the Light has nothing to boast about. His/her position has been secured by Grace. Therefore, the one in darkness should be pitied and not looked down upon.

However, the perversion of the Truth, should not be excused nor forgiven by true believers. It is the believers task, to witness for and defend the Truth daily. If the person speaking forth these perversions, is not placed under the blood of Christ, then these perversions will be used against them, on the day of the final Judgement.
sounds like your saying something along these lines

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then along these lines

“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,695
113
#10
Do you really thinking about you could really forgive sinner and others ?
We can do many things with God's help that we could not do without it.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#11
I'm not trying to blame anyone, nor against anyone.

My purpose is to remind people from myself,
Once I thought I learned to forgive, but it's actually very difficult。

The inability to forgive others seems to be rooted in our subconscious mind。
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,226
6,525
113
#12
I do hope you are not confusing inability to forgive with not forgetting what has occurred. If we forget what transgressions have been committed against us, we are being foolish, setting ourselves up to abuse.

No, always forgive, but always remember for the sake of being prepared for any eventuality. Forgiving should always include remembering in order to be aware if the offencese returns in the offender.

Like our Father we do not hold the guilt of the sin against the sinner. Love is the manner, and Love is the Way.
 

Lizzy

Junior Member
Jan 18, 2018
171
139
43
#13
Forgiving others should be split into two parts. 1) Forgiving those who wronged us personally and 2) Forgiving those who wrong the Lord.

For the true believer, forgiving those who wrong us should be the easiest. We ourselves are guilty of wronging others and certainly want to be forgiven. Therefore, this falls into the category of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. All believers should strive hard not to create offense but when and if an offence occurs, even quicker to seek forgiveness.

True forgiveness of others, is marked by forgetfulness. If one has truly forgiven another, then the offense is truly forgotten. This is difficult to accomplish in our imperfect natures. Only God has perfect forgetfulness. Scripture teaches that God will put away the sins of His people, as far as east is from west and shall remember them no more. This is perfect forgetfulness. One cannot be said to have forgiven another, if the first thing that happens upon an offence by the other, is to drag up past offences. Believers must learn to forgive and then let the offence go, never to be spoken of again or to be brought to mind. The later, is far more difficult.

Forgiving one who has wronged the Lord, is far more difficult still because it involves the Truth of God's Holy Word and ourselves. When one hears the Truth of the Lord perverted by another, that one is effected as if it were a personal attack. Personal because it is an attack upon whom the believer loves. To resolve our personal feelings, we should remember and live by this great principle: If it were not for the Grace of God, so go I. A person, who is still in darkness, should not be looked upon as lowlier than the one in the Light. The one in the Light has nothing to boast about. His/her position has been secured by Grace. Therefore, the one in darkness should be pitied and not looked down upon.

However, the perversion of the Truth, should not be excused nor forgiven by true believers. It is the believers task, to witness for and defend the Truth daily. If the person speaking forth these perversions, is not placed under the blood of Christ, then these perversions will be used against them, on the day of the final Judgement.
I appreciate that you said not to be judging people that are still in darkness, that still don't know the hope of Christ. It has always really bothered me how I've heard fellow Christians or anybody judging people and they don't even know them. They look at the outward. Maybe that is the exact person that God is leading you to, to reach out and give them some hope in this world.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,491
449
83
68
#14
I appreciate that you said not to be judging people that are still in darkness, that still don't know the hope of Christ. It has always really bothered me how I've heard fellow Christians or anybody judging people and they don't even know them. They look at the outward. Maybe that is the exact person that God is leading you to, to reach out and give them some hope in this world.
When it comes to judging another, the best we can do is judge what we see, (1 Cor. 6:2). Only the Lord can judge what is in the heart and only He is the final Judge. The Apostle Paul often wrote, as a reply to his detractors, that it mattered little to him what they thought or how they judged him. He wrote, Let God judge, whether his actions be righteous or not, (1 Cor. 4:3). That being said, the Lord taught His true believers to be fruit inspectors, (Mat. 7:15-20). Every individual, saved by Grace, will have "fruit" on his/her tree. Some will have much fruit and others little fruit but all will have fruit.

This type of judgement, is to determine in the one being scrutinized, whether they be in the faith or not. The fruit one is looking for, is both in the way one lives and what one holds to be true - if it is the Truth of Holy Scripture or heresy. If no fruit is found, then the examiner can determine that this one is not in the faith. Therefore, this one is still in darkness. However, the one examining cannot know whether this person will be saved at a future date. This is why the Lord told believers to "forgive" them and not hate them. Only the Lord knows His own and He loves everyone of them, regardless if it is before they come to know Him or after they come to know Him. Jesus Christ, gave us the perfect example to follow when He was still on the cross. He said: "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.". Everyone in darkness knows not what they do. If Christ did not charge their sin to their account - then neither should we.

Some have taught that believers should not judge at all; however, this is not Biblical. Scripture warns believers however, that if one judges another, then expect to be judged by that one as well. Not only is this taught in Scripture but it is taught in life. Everyone one who has ever judged another person, has themselves been judged by that person. The quickest way to get a negative reaction out of someone, is to render a judgement that goes against what that one holds to be true. This is why the Lord said: If the world hates you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. (John 15:18,19). The "world" spoken of here, is the religious world that holds not to the truth of the Word. A person who is not religious, will rarely act negatively to a Biblical discussion; however, a religious person will become vicious - if you try to show where their belief system is wrong. Just as the Jews did with Jesus Christ.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,246
4,016
113
#15
Do you really thinking about you could really forgive sinner and others ?
I know that we may really tell our self , we could forgive others.
but truth is when we face it, we can't really forgive others in heart, only in mind, no action .

The bible tells us, No one can boast of his good deeds ,cuz no one is good but God.

My point is,
What if we really forgive each others in heart, I mean true forgive in heart not only in mind, not only you say you could forgive but can't.
Yesterday at church we had a very good guest speaker who spoke on forgiveness. The brother ( andy & wife) son was murdered by a man who lived on their street. The man was 21 years old and at the time of the murder, Andy and his wife were not Christians.

He told the story of how God saved him then, and of the lesson of forgiveness. Long story short, Andy led this man who murdered his son to the Lord. He told this young man who was in prison that serving the Lord was not an option and Andy said I forgive you but am requiring you to live your life as a Christian you now profess to be.

Not too long this man was released from prison and found himself back in drugs and addiction. Johhny saw Andy's forgiveness as a "get outta jail free "card.

It was not until one day Johnny was at a gas station and Andy showed up and walked into the store and saw Johhny. immediately Johnny was convicted( by the Holy Spirit). And fail at the feet of Andy.
Think of all the emotion and voice from the devil that would be talking to Andy at that time?


You who killed my son, now back doing what you did before you killed him, and taking the life and freedom by son will never have and lie to God and me.

Nope, Andy forgave him again. And help him get into rehab.

This second time of forgiveness Andy showed to Johnny was the turning point for Johnny who is now serving the Lord and fruitful doing so.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,226
6,525
113
#16
We must follow the Example of our Savior. In even His agony He asked the Fasther to forgive His tormentors. Strive, we must all strive.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
770
113
#17
We must forgive others if we hope for God to forgive us our sins against Him. Jesus taught us to pray the Lord's Prayer. This prayer can be a double edged sword. If we pray this prayer and don't forgive others, then we are asking God not to forgive us. In this prayer, we ask God to forgive us our sins only as we forgive others.

Keep in mind that, when we truly forgive others of their transgressions against us, we are releasing shackles of bitterness/hatred/vengeance against others. And these shackles are things that make us miserable. So, in fact, if we truly forgive others we are doing ourselves a favor.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
770
113
#18
Keep in mind that Jesus didn't just suggest that we forgive others, He commanded we forgive others. Immediately after teaching the Apostles the Lord's Prayer Jesus told them, “If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.“ (Matt 6:14)

If you want to think of yourself as a Christian, you had best learn how to forgive. Otherwise you are just paying lip service to Jesus and what he taught. You know, building your spiritual house of salvation on weak and shifting sands.