Amillennialism

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A

AnandaHya

Guest
hey I found this website and wanted to share :) It outlines an Amillennial view of Revelations 20.

lol I like his first admonishment:

"first, genuine, faithful believers hold diverse views concerning the meaning of “a thousand years.” I have good friends whom I hold in highest regard that embrace interpretive views that differ from my own. We must recognize that how someone views the millennium must never be a test of fellowship or acceptance in the body of Christ. Our agreement upon the gospel, the doctrine of God, of Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, of the Church and of man carries much more weight in our fellowship than one’s view on the millennium."

Sermons from the Book of Revelation

"I. The devil bound—on earth
We’re not viewing this text in linear fashion but as another angle on the massive tapestry of redemptive history. The symbolic language continues as we’ve seen throughout this apocalyptic book.

1. Decisive act
Notice the vivid way that John expresses what Christ did to the devil at the cross. “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” The extrapolated names for Satan connect us with John’s previous declaration of triumph over our enemy. In 12:9, Michael, the angel throws down “the great dragon, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world.” As we noted in our exposition of that chapter, John is dealing with the Incarnation and the redemptive work of Christ. In short focus, he shows us how Christ came and conquered Satan so that believers “overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb,” and how God preserves the church through centuries of persecution in spite of the devil’s antagonism. Though Satan rages, the Lord protects His people through the most difficult periods and brings each one safely into His presence. Satan is unable to thwart the work of the gospel or conquer the church. In that sense, Satan was bound by Christ’s redemptive work that continues to sustain the church.

Consider how Jesus put it. For centuries, since the Fall, Satan had blinded and duped all of the nations to the glory of God with the exception of Israel. God had laid His gracious hand upon Israel and maintained a clear witness to His sovereignty and glory, even in times of great apostasy. But at this point in history, the rest of the world had no interest in the Creator, choosing instead the vanity of idolatry. When Jesus came into the world, He spent much of His time casting out demons, showing the widespread power of Satan, even in Israel. When accused of casting out devils by the devil, Jesus explained the impossibility of Satan casting out Satan. Then He declared, “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house” (Matt. 12:22-29). The same word (deo) that John uses for Satan being bound by the angel is the same word used by Jesus. With Christ came the advent of the kingdom of God in demonstration of His sovereign reign—He bound the strong man so that through the gospel, He might plunder his house. He further affirmed this in John 12:31-32, a text that has great bearing on Revelation 20:1-3. “Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” Here the decisiveness of the cross explains that the devil will be cast out (ekballo), and thrown (ballo) into the abyss. And what is the purpose? That by Christ’s death, He “will draw all men to” Himself—that is, not just Israelites, but men of every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. Christ’s worthiness as redeemer of the world, not just Israel, is heralded by the gospel and amplified in Revelation (5:9-10; 7:9-10). It was the decisiveness of Christ’s first advent, and what He accomplished in it that bound the devil. His second advent will finish him off!

2. Boundaries set
The boundaries are very clear: Satan is “bound…for a thousand years.” The angel “threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed.” John’s symbolic language expresses that Christ has put the clamps on Satan! Having said that, we know that the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour (1 Pet. 5:8); so how do we juggle this verse and the reality of Satan’s continuing presence? Two quotations will help us to see what John expresses. First, Greg Beale explains the background. “Indeed, after the Fall, the serpent and his agents do on a worldwide scale what the devil began to do in the garden…In the OT age Satan was able to delude the majority in Israel so that they were not able to fulfill their commission to be a salvific light to the nations (e.g., cf. Isa. 49:6)” [Beale 988]. So, would Satan thwart the purposes of God to save a people throughout the world? He seemed to be having great success in doing so, even among Israel. But then came Christ into the world; and the cross and resurrection. John expresses this in symbolic language in our text to show that Satan’s stranglehold on the nations was broken. The good news could now spread throughout the world. And that was greatly encouraging to the believers in Asia Minor! Second, Anthony Hoekema explains that our text “means that throughout the gospel age in which we now live the influence of Satan, though certainly not annihilated, is so curtailed that he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to the nations of the world. Because of the binding of Satan during this present age, the nations cannot conquer the church, but the church is conquering the nations” [The Bible and the Future, 229].

If you were living in Asia Minor in the 1st century, feeling the overwhelming power of idolatrous Rome overshadowing you, then this message would encourage you to keep pressing on. You would understand the certainty that the gospel would go forth in unstoppable ways throughout the world.

3. Gospel expansion
Think about the early spread of the gospel. Satan had deceived the Roman Empire. They practiced emperor worship as well as the worship of numerous gods. They lived unrestrained lives, having no thought of conforming to the law of God. They denied the Lord God’s existence. In the previous centuries, Israel’s witness had only slight influence with other nations. But now, through Christ binding Satan in His death at the cross, the gospel continues to spread into the darkest lands. The binding and sealing of Satan, “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed,” calls the church to confidently take the gospel to the multiplied hundreds of people groups in the world that still have no gospel witness.

We’re living in a gospel age. At last week’s Founders Conference (Owasso, OK, June 26-29, 2007), Raymond Perron of Quebec City warned of the misleading tendencies in our day to (1) “look for a miracle recipe to bring the world to Christ,” and (2) spending all of our time trying to analyze a person’s behavior and the issues of his life so that we’ll apply the appropriate methodologies in our evangelism, instead of giving him the gospel. He warned, “Beware of relying too much on methodology. The power is not in the sower or the method but in the seed”—that is, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because Christ bound Satan, having cast him down by the triumphant death on the cross, we can be assured that as we sow the gospel, God will bless it and bring forth fruit.

Yet, this will not continue forever. “After these things he must be released for a short time.” We don’t know how long the “thousand years” might be. It is much longer than the “short time” that Satan will have no restraints upon him in his opposition to the gospel. We are not yet in that time. We’re still in the age of the gospel. So, with the anticipation of the devil’s release that lies ahead, let us press forward as bearers of the good news of Christ while our enemy is bound."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
don't bother doc, he's not paying attention or he might have seen the big article you posted concerning point one and addressed the points put forth. instead he has decided to repeat the same questions and pretend no one answered any of them.



can they breathe in the sand?
Saying you answered them, and actually doing so does not mean the same. Does your pride stick so high that you think your have made it?

many of those questions YOU did not even respond to. so I am supposed to read your mind??

again, answer those questions. or I will assume you can't, and move on
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
BRITISH ISRAELISM!

REFUTED:

Quote~

1. The house of Israel was in Babylon with Ezekiel—Ezek. 3 :1-15.


In verse 1 God told Ezekiel to "go speak unto the house of Israel." In verse 5 God said that he should speak "to the house of Israel" only. In verse 11 he was told to speak "to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people." In verse 15 it identifies them as those who were in Babylon with Ezekiel "that dwelt by the river Chebar"—in Babylon. But everybody knows that the Jews were in the captivity of Babylon, not the ten tribes. So the Jews in Babylon, according to Ezekiel, were the "house of Israel." Ezekiel was commanded to speak to them, but he was told to speak only to the house of Israel, those in Babylon, dwelling by the river Chebar. So it seems that there were quite a number of Jews in the house of Israel, after all, and DESTINY must be wrong about it. Moreover, Ezekiel 37 pictures the "whole house of Israel" in return from the Babylonian captivity. The statement that "in that house there are no Jews" is absurd and displays an ignorance that is appalling on the part of editors and writers of such a magazine as DESTINY.


2. The house of Israel returned from Babylon with Ezra, Zerrubbabel and Nehemiah—Ezek. 47:13. "Thus saith the Lord God: This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions."


Here Ezekiel tells them the portion of all the twelve tribes when they return. Jeremiah said that the house of Israel would return from the north country to dwell again in their land. Jer. 23:8: "But the Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land." Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, made a proclamation in Babylon to all the Jews "throughout all his kingdom" for any who were "of all his people" (God's people) to return. Ezra 1:1-3: "Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel; (he is the God) which is in Jerusalem." This proclamation was addressed to Israel. God had "stirred up the spirit of Cyrus" to make this proclamation. It fulfilled all that Jeremiah had spoken concerning the return of Israel to their land, a blanket fulfillment. If the ten tribes were not included in this proclamation, they were not of "all his people"—not God's people. They all had the opportunity to return, all Israel in Babylon, and those in the "north country"—the ten tribes —and this proves definitely that the distinction which the Anglo-Israelists attempt to make is a false distinction.


After the return to Jerusalem Ezra commanded a sin offering for every tribe of Israel, and he referred to them as "all Israel." Ezra 6 :16-17: "And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house with joy, and offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." Why offer for "all Israel" if it was only the Jews who returned from Babylon, and not Israel at all, as Anglo-Israelites assert?
In his printed Radio Addresses, the one of May 22, 1943, the Dr. John Matthews said that "it has been admitted that Ezra and Nehemiah are Jewish books." In the same address he said that "it has also been admitted that in two or three instances Jews and Israel are the same." But DESTINY says that there are "no Jews" in the house of Israel. The Doctor and the Editor had better confer.


Since it is "admitted" that "in two or three instances" Jews and Israel were the same, we now claim the right to demand that they name these two or three instances. And if they are the same in two or three instances, they might explain how many instances Jews and Israel must be the same in order to remain the same. If they are the same a part of the time, and a part of the time they are not the same, then how may we tell when they are the same and when they are not the same? Just how many "instances" does the Bible have to say a thing to prove it to be that way?


Take another look at Ezra. Read Chap. 3:11: "And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the Lord; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid." If the Jews and Israel are not the same, why should these Jews who had returned from Babylon, who were not "in the house of Israel" per Anglo-Israelists —why should they be shouting for Israel, if they were not Israel ?


In the book of Ezra they are called Jews eight times and Israel forty times. In Nehemiah they are called Jews eleven times and Israel twenty two times. If these terms are not used interchangeably by Ezra and Nehemiah, how could they have used them interchangeably if they had wanted to do so? If these terms are not used interchangeably, then we have more Israel than Jews in Ezra, and the argument is reversed, for Anglo-Israelists insist, that only the Jews, not Israel, returned to Judah from Babylon. But if the terms "Jews" and "Israel" are used interchangeably, then they are identical, the same in more than "two or three instances," and their whole argument is lost. In the two lists found in Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7, the number of Israel was 12,000 and the number of Judah was 30,000—and the sin offering was made for "all Israel," for "every tribe of Israel." Why? These facts are fatal to the Anglo-Israel theory.


It is pertinent here to inquire, who returned to Palestine. The Anglo-Israelists deny that Israel returned. Only the Jews returned. Israel remained scattered and lost, to be found centuries later in the British Isles. Let us see. In 1 Chron. 9 13 we read: "So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, who were carried away to Babylon for their transgress on . . . And In Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Let it be noted that this was after the return, and who is in Jerusalem? First, "all Israel," and they were "reckoned by genealogies," so it must have been true. Second, among them were "children of Judah" and "children of Benjamin," who were Jews, according to Anglo-Israelists. But note: "And of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Here are the very ones who the Anglo-Israelists say were "Israel"—and they were there. But they tell us only the Jews were there—not Israel at all. They are dead wrong.


In 713 B.C., during the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib, king of Assyria, invaded Judah, took all the fenced cities—2 Kings 18:3—and carried the captives to Assyria. But that is where the ten tribes were—in Assyria. So in this way both Judah and Israel were in Assyria. Later, the proclamation of Cyrus— Ezra 1:13—gave "all the opportunity to return, and all who wanted to return but were not able were given government aid.


Anyone can see what these facts do to the Anglo-Israel theory. That theory contends that Israel was "in the north country" and did not return to Palestine, that the ten tribes subsequently became lost, and never did return, but were traced to the British Isles, and now exist in the British, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic races. The passages cited show that their contention is wrong. These scriptural facts are absolutely fatal to the Anglo-Israel doctrine.

SOURCE AND CREDIT: Anglo/British-Israelism: A DETAILED REFUTATION

ALL the House of Israel AND the Jews returned.

FULFILLED.

God is so faithful.

thanks Doc...

Doc, i was listening to a lecture on why many american evangelicals spend so much time in the OT looking for unfulfilled prophecies, and actually applying them to themselves in many cases....goes back to the Puritans/Mayflower and that other ship of christians that fled England (forget the name now) - they were already trying to set up a theonomy based on OT, and had themselves pretty much convinced they were the hebrew children within a few years (sounds like the Khazars).

good post. British-Israelism rabbit trail....Scofield, Untermyer....maybe we should post some more on it.
every little bit helps.

they managed to create a GOLEM later to be disposed of - christian zionism.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Daniel 12

Prophecy of the End Time

1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book. <<< ROMANS 11 REMNANT
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Matthew 27
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

Revelations 20

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

now if people could understand what TODAY means they might get the whole 1000 years symbolizing this age until the coming of Christ, but I guess we can only pray that God reveals that to them. If God can't convince them, how can we mere mortals do it?

Acts 13:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:


‘ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’[a]

34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:


‘ I will give you the sure mercies of David.’

Hebrews 4:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:


“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”[a]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day..


very well put together ana.
doing the actual work yourself.
it's good.

yes, that single phrase a thousand years has caused so much confusion and it is unnecessary.

if you go to this thread, start at Doc's posts #4 +, you'll see how and why the Dispensational Model was introduced...or at least you start to see more of it.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/30734-1-000-year-millennial-kingdom-reign.html

GAPS were inserted into the True Covenantal Redemptive Plan (which flows smoothly, is Christ-centred, shows fulfilled prophecies, has NO GAPS). they had to make it say the Kingdom WAS POSTPONED.
that Christ is not King now, that the Church is Plan B, but most importantly,

that THE CHURCH AND ISRAEL ARE SEPARATE - two plans.

hmmmm.......now why would anyone do that?
 
Aug 25, 2011
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<begins washing everyone's feet in this thread> In Jesus's Name!
 
Aug 12, 2010
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Ananda..EG is being childish.

Your gonna have to paste my British Israelism refutation to him as he's only selectively responding to my posts.

Yawn.

Thats number 1.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
hey I found this website and wanted to share :) It outlines an Amillennial view of Revelations 20.

lol I like his first admonishment:

"first, genuine, faithful believers hold diverse views concerning the meaning of “a thousand years.” I have good friends whom I hold in highest regard that embrace interpretive views that differ from my own. We must recognize that how someone views the millennium must never be a test of fellowship or acceptance in the body of Christ. Our agreement upon the gospel, the doctrine of God, of Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, of the Church and of man carries much more weight in our fellowship than one’s view on the millennium."

Sermons from the Book of Revelation

"I. The devil bound—on earth
We’re not viewing this text in linear fashion but as another angle on the massive tapestry of redemptive history. The symbolic language continues as we’ve seen throughout this apocalyptic book.

1. Decisive act
Notice the vivid way that John expresses what Christ did to the devil at the cross. “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” The extrapolated names for Satan connect us with John’s previous declaration of triumph over our enemy. In 12:9, Michael, the angel throws down “the great dragon, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world.” As we noted in our exposition of that chapter, John is dealing with the Incarnation and the redemptive work of Christ. In short focus, he shows us how Christ came and conquered Satan so that believers “overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb,” and how God preserves the church through centuries of persecution in spite of the devil’s antagonism. Though Satan rages, the Lord protects His people through the most difficult periods and brings each one safely into His presence. Satan is unable to thwart the work of the gospel or conquer the church. In that sense, Satan was bound by Christ’s redemptive work that continues to sustain the church.

Consider how Jesus put it. For centuries, since the Fall, Satan had blinded and duped all of the nations to the glory of God with the exception of Israel. God had laid His gracious hand upon Israel and maintained a clear witness to His sovereignty and glory, even in times of great apostasy. But at this point in history, the rest of the world had no interest in the Creator, choosing instead the vanity of idolatry. When Jesus came into the world, He spent much of His time casting out demons, showing the widespread power of Satan, even in Israel. When accused of casting out devils by the devil, Jesus explained the impossibility of Satan casting out Satan. Then He declared, “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house” (Matt. 12:22-29). The same word (deo) that John uses for Satan being bound by the angel is the same word used by Jesus. With Christ came the advent of the kingdom of God in demonstration of His sovereign reign—He bound the strong man so that through the gospel, He might plunder his house. He further affirmed this in John 12:31-32, a text that has great bearing on Revelation 20:1-3. “Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” Here the decisiveness of the cross explains that the devil will be cast out (ekballo), and thrown (ballo) into the abyss. And what is the purpose? That by Christ’s death, He “will draw all men to” Himself—that is, not just Israelites, but men of every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. Christ’s worthiness as redeemer of the world, not just Israel, is heralded by the gospel and amplified in Revelation (5:9-10; 7:9-10). It was the decisiveness of Christ’s first advent, and what He accomplished in it that bound the devil. His second advent will finish him off!

2. Boundaries set
The boundaries are very clear: Satan is “bound…for a thousand years.” The angel “threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed.” John’s symbolic language expresses that Christ has put the clamps on Satan! Having said that, we know that the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour (1 Pet. 5:8); so how do we juggle this verse and the reality of Satan’s continuing presence? Two quotations will help us to see what John expresses. First, Greg Beale explains the background. “Indeed, after the Fall, the serpent and his agents do on a worldwide scale what the devil began to do in the garden…In the OT age Satan was able to delude the majority in Israel so that they were not able to fulfill their commission to be a salvific light to the nations (e.g., cf. Isa. 49:6)” [Beale 988]. So, would Satan thwart the purposes of God to save a people throughout the world? He seemed to be having great success in doing so, even among Israel. But then came Christ into the world; and the cross and resurrection. John expresses this in symbolic language in our text to show that Satan’s stranglehold on the nations was broken. The good news could now spread throughout the world. And that was greatly encouraging to the believers in Asia Minor! Second, Anthony Hoekema explains that our text “means that throughout the gospel age in which we now live the influence of Satan, though certainly not annihilated, is so curtailed that he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to the nations of the world. Because of the binding of Satan during this present age, the nations cannot conquer the church, but the church is conquering the nations” [The Bible and the Future, 229].

If you were living in Asia Minor in the 1st century, feeling the overwhelming power of idolatrous Rome overshadowing you, then this message would encourage you to keep pressing on. You would understand the certainty that the gospel would go forth in unstoppable ways throughout the world.

3. Gospel expansion
Think about the early spread of the gospel. Satan had deceived the Roman Empire. They practiced emperor worship as well as the worship of numerous gods. They lived unrestrained lives, having no thought of conforming to the law of God. They denied the Lord God’s existence. In the previous centuries, Israel’s witness had only slight influence with other nations. But now, through Christ binding Satan in His death at the cross, the gospel continues to spread into the darkest lands. The binding and sealing of Satan, “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed,” calls the church to confidently take the gospel to the multiplied hundreds of people groups in the world that still have no gospel witness.

We’re living in a gospel age. At last week’s Founders Conference (Owasso, OK, June 26-29, 2007), Raymond Perron of Quebec City warned of the misleading tendencies in our day to (1) “look for a miracle recipe to bring the world to Christ,” and (2) spending all of our time trying to analyze a person’s behavior and the issues of his life so that we’ll apply the appropriate methodologies in our evangelism, instead of giving him the gospel. He warned, “Beware of relying too much on methodology. The power is not in the sower or the method but in the seed”—that is, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because Christ bound Satan, having cast him down by the triumphant death on the cross, we can be assured that as we sow the gospel, God will bless it and bring forth fruit.

Yet, this will not continue forever. “After these things he must be released for a short time.” We don’t know how long the “thousand years” might be. It is much longer than the “short time” that Satan will have no restraints upon him in his opposition to the gospel. We are not yet in that time. We’re still in the age of the gospel. So, with the anticipation of the devil’s release that lies ahead, let us press forward as bearers of the good news of Christ while our enemy is bound."
EXCELLENT!
i hadn't seen this before.

thanks ana! thrilling, isn't it???:D

Anthony Hoekema is a really good scholar and teacher. find his stuff (Monergism.com).
and GK Beale is awesome too.

good find!

now we know what remains to be fulfilled - from Rev 20 we know satan's little season, and it matches 2 Thess 2.....the eschaton....we can see it in Isaiah also.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
and I agree you have the right to disagree, therefore I am no longer addressing my words to you concerning this subject.

In addition, I would prefer to address others who would actually discuss scripture

without resorting to "that doesn't prove anything" "your just wrong" "your a puppet" like statements.


most of the time I like "I don't agree and these are the reasons why and here is the scriptures or pastors or websites or books that help bring me to my current understanding of what God's message is truly about"
wonder where I told EG he had to leave?

(I think I should add "your a hypocrite" to the list of statements that distract from a debate. not that I agree but its still illogical:
)



I don't know Doc, being falsely accused of saying something you didn't is kind of annoying.

How is it One wayism to discuss the scriptures another posted concerning their views, like Daniel 9 and Ezekiel?

Is it because we don't agree with the way they read scripture and make Ezekiel be unfufilled?
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
wonder where I told EG he had to leave?

You told us it was your thread and asked what we were doing in here, you trying to back down now?




I don't know Doc, being falsely accused of saying something you didn't is kind of annoying.
Yet he did the same thing in the other thread. He said we would worship a false messiah, meaning we could not be saved, if we did not change our beliefs. I even confronted him on it. He staed he did not say it. but yet he said it again.

How is it One wayism to discuss the scriptures another posted concerning their views, like Daniel 9 and Ezekiel?
I asked you questions about them. and you did not answer or respond. That is called one wayism.

Is it because we don't agree with the way they read scripture and make Ezekiel be unfufilled?
When someone asks a question, and you do not answer. All one can assume is you can not answer. Not being able to answer a question should make you yourself wonder why you can't answer.

Do you think you have shown me anything to change my mind. I am not going to change my mind when I present questions people can not, or will not answer.
 
A

Abiding

Guest


we can learn alot here.....jerky anyone?..its good
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Questions not answered!

You should not have even tried Ananda, When they returned form the babylonian captivity. a few things are missing for Ezekials prophesy to be true.

1. Not all Israel returned. Only the jews (answered by Doc you just didn't read the article)
2. Israel had not repented. They did not live in peace. They were ruled for foriegners, even when they were in their land. Even up till the time of Christ. are you mixing prophecies again?

3. Ezekial said ALL ISREAL will be returned. yes and see the article Doc posted it shows how ALL of Isreal were invited to return when the second temple was rebuilt, etc.
4. Ezekial said ALL ISrael will repent. (did not happen, has not happened yet. mmmm ever heard the word REMNANT?
5. God never put his spirit in the JEWS wher returned. ??? mixing prophecies again

PROPHESIES CONCERNED JACOB AND ISREAl. WHO WERE PUNISHED FOR THEIR UNBELIEF AND SENT TO THE GENTILES AS A PUNISHMENT. (This was completely fulfilled and AD 70) THEY ALL SAY GOD WILL RESTORE THEM AFTER THEY REPENT. No don't accept this premise, its not about 70 AD its about the exile before that.

Paul said in romans that jew and gentile are one under Christ. all except for romans 11. when he said gentile was grafted in, and jew was cut off. But he said when the time of the gentile was finished. jew would be grafted back in. yep that is when the TEMPLE was destroyed in 70 AD for if they repented before then, they might have been saved and prophecy would have been delayed and they would be His people again instead of being scattered.

The time of the gentile will come to and end. And at this time (and NOT UNTIL THEN) will ALL ISREAL BE SAVED. As was said in the OT. they will returned to their land, and again made a light to the world as representatives of Christ. It is all in the passages I posted. Your failure to see this does not make it not true. mmm no it says Remnant but you like to ignore that part. where does it say ALL fleshly descendents of Isreal in reference to prophecies that have not ALREADY been fulfilled?

So tell me. Why would God say he would destroy a gentile nation for not serving Israel? mmmm mixing prophecies much be your pass time...

I am surer there are more, but this should keep you busy ok done, maybe I'll go take a nap....

" Your failure to see this does not make it not true. "

Romans 11
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


What happens if they continue in unbelief?

If they are not considered the seed of Abraham how then can the be considered the seed of Israel?

Luke 1
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 &#8220; Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our li
fe.
76 &#8220; And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited[e] us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.&#8221;

Fulfillment of:

Daniel 9
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


it NEVER says HE BREAKS the Covenant. It says HE ENDS Sacrifice. Did JESUS end sacrifice? Yes or No?

Did he CONFIRM the covenant? Yes or no?

How long did Jesus ACTIVELY preach?

you can chose to ignore it.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest

You told us it was your thread and asked what we were doing in here, you trying to back down now?


back down from what? i'm still wondering what you are doing here and waiting for you to stop being illogical and actually debate and answer the points and questions put forth instead of making ad hominem attacks.


Yet he did the same thing in the other thread. He said we would worship a false messiah, meaning we could not be saved, if we did not change our beliefs. I even confronted him on it. He staed he did not say it. but yet he said it again.

that is you adding to what he said because you don't understand the term apostasy.


I asked you questions about them. and you did not answer or respond. That is called one wayism.

I answered them and you said they are worthless, that is what I call insulting.



When someone asks a question, and you do not answer. All one can assume is you can not answer. Not being able to answer a question should make you yourself wonder why you can't answer.

Do you think you have shown me anything to change my mind. I am not going to change my mind when I present questions people can not, or will not answer.
no you won't change your mind because you don't listen to the answers given when they might acutally show that you might be wrong. Instead you attack and insult and degrade the person you speak with.

what do you consider being called a "puppet" qualifies as?

let me go grab the unanswered questions you have yet to address from the other thread.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Points you have not addressed:

1. who is the strong man bound in Mark 3 and Matthew 12?

2. Why don't JESUS and His disciples mention the 1000 year Earthly reign?

3, Why does the Bible says 1000 years is like a day?

4. When does TODAY stop being TODAY?

5. Why do people think that binding Satan will bind all his minions as well?

6. WHy when the BIBLE says ALL of Israel returned to the second Temple do some people want to claim only the "Jews" did?

7. WHy do some people have double standards and demand their questions to be answered but do not answer others and when their questions ARE answered they pout and say its not good enough or convincing enough for them?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest


we can learn alot here.....jerky anyone?..its good
yummy.

going out of town

camping cuz the guys are riding their bikes in the big MS Bike ride in New Bern so I don't know if we will have internet access or not.

Gotta pack and fed the young'un. :) talk to you later Abiding and crew ;)
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
BRITISH ISRAELISM!

REFUTED:

Quote~

1. The house of Israel was in Babylon with Ezekiel—Ezek. 3 :1-15.


In verse 1 God told Ezekiel to "go speak unto the house of Israel." In verse 5 God said that he should speak "to the house of Israel" only. In verse 11 he was told to speak "to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people." In verse 15 it identifies them as those who were in Babylon with Ezekiel "that dwelt by the river Chebar"—in Babylon. But everybody knows that the Jews were in the captivity of Babylon, not the ten tribes. So the Jews in Babylon, according to Ezekiel, were the "house of Israel." Ezekiel was commanded to speak to them, but he was told to speak only to the house of Israel, those in Babylon, dwelling by the river Chebar. So it seems that there were quite a number of Jews in the house of Israel, after all, and DESTINY must be wrong about it. Moreover, Ezekiel 37 pictures the "whole house of Israel" in return from the Babylonian captivity. The statement that "in that house there are no Jews" is absurd and displays an ignorance that is appalling on the part of editors and writers of such a magazine as DESTINY.


2. The house of Israel returned from Babylon with Ezra, Zerrubbabel and Nehemiah—Ezek. 47:13. "Thus saith the Lord God: This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions."


Here Ezekiel tells them the portion of all the twelve tribes when they return. Jeremiah said that the house of Israel would return from the north country to dwell again in their land. Jer. 23:8: "But the Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land." Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, made a proclamation in Babylon to all the Jews "throughout all his kingdom" for any who were "of all his people" (God's people) to return. Ezra 1:1-3: "Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel; (he is the God) which is in Jerusalem." This proclamation was addressed to Israel. God had "stirred up the spirit of Cyrus" to make this proclamation. It fulfilled all that Jeremiah had spoken concerning the return of Israel to their land, a blanket fulfillment. If the ten tribes were not included in this proclamation, they were not of "all his people"—not God's people. They all had the opportunity to return, all Israel in Babylon, and those in the "north country"—the ten tribes —and this proves definitely that the distinction which the Anglo-Israelists attempt to make is a false distinction.


After the return to Jerusalem Ezra commanded a sin offering for every tribe of Israel, and he referred to them as "all Israel." Ezra 6 :16-17: "And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house with joy, and offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." Why offer for "all Israel" if it was only the Jews who returned from Babylon, and not Israel at all, as Anglo-Israelites assert?
In his printed Radio Addresses, the one of May 22, 1943, the Dr. John Matthews said that "it has been admitted that Ezra and Nehemiah are Jewish books." In the same address he said that "it has also been admitted that in two or three instances Jews and Israel are the same." But DESTINY says that there are "no Jews" in the house of Israel. The Doctor and the Editor had better confer.


Since it is "admitted" that "in two or three instances" Jews and Israel were the same, we now claim the right to demand that they name these two or three instances. And if they are the same in two or three instances, they might explain how many instances Jews and Israel must be the same in order to remain the same. If they are the same a part of the time, and a part of the time they are not the same, then how may we tell when they are the same and when they are not the same? Just how many "instances" does the Bible have to say a thing to prove it to be that way?


Take another look at Ezra. Read Chap. 3:11: "And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the Lord; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid." If the Jews and Israel are not the same, why should these Jews who had returned from Babylon, who were not "in the house of Israel" per Anglo-Israelists —why should they be shouting for Israel, if they were not Israel ?


In the book of Ezra they are called Jews eight times and Israel forty times. In Nehemiah they are called Jews eleven times and Israel twenty two times. If these terms are not used interchangeably by Ezra and Nehemiah, how could they have used them interchangeably if they had wanted to do so? If these terms are not used interchangeably, then we have more Israel than Jews in Ezra, and the argument is reversed, for Anglo-Israelists insist, that only the Jews, not Israel, returned to Judah from Babylon. But if the terms "Jews" and "Israel" are used interchangeably, then they are identical, the same in more than "two or three instances," and their whole argument is lost. In the two lists found in Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7, the number of Israel was 12,000 and the number of Judah was 30,000—and the sin offering was made for "all Israel," for "every tribe of Israel." Why? These facts are fatal to the Anglo-Israel theory.


It is pertinent here to inquire, who returned to Palestine. The Anglo-Israelists deny that Israel returned. Only the Jews returned. Israel remained scattered and lost, to be found centuries later in the British Isles. Let us see. In 1 Chron. 9 13 we read: "So all Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah, who were carried away to Babylon for their transgress on . . . And In Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Let it be noted that this was after the return, and who is in Jerusalem? First, "all Israel," and they were "reckoned by genealogies," so it must have been true. Second, among them were "children of Judah" and "children of Benjamin," who were Jews, according to Anglo-Israelists. But note: "And of the children of Ephraim and Manasseh." Here are the very ones who the Anglo-Israelists say were "Israel"—and they were there. But they tell us only the Jews were there—not Israel at all. They are dead wrong.


In 713 B.C., during the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib, king of Assyria, invaded Judah, took all the fenced cities—2 Kings 18:3—and carried the captives to Assyria. But that is where the ten tribes were—in Assyria. So in this way both Judah and Israel were in Assyria. Later, the proclamation of Cyrus— Ezra 1:13—gave "all the opportunity to return, and all who wanted to return but were not able were given government aid.


Anyone can see what these facts do to the Anglo-Israel theory. That theory contends that Israel was "in the north country" and did not return to Palestine, that the ten tribes subsequently became lost, and never did return, but were traced to the British Isles, and now exist in the British, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic races. The passages cited show that their contention is wrong. These scriptural facts are absolutely fatal to the Anglo-Israel doctrine.

SOURCE AND CREDIT: Anglo/British-Israelism: A DETAILED REFUTATION

ALL the House of Israel AND the Jews returned.
answer to question number one since you are ignoring his posts even though he answers your questions....
 
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Abiding

Guest
yummy.

going out of town

camping cuz the guys are riding their bikes in the big MS Bike ride in New Bern so I don't know if we will have internet access or not.

Gotta pack and fed the young'un. :) talk to you later Abiding and crew ;)
Have a great time lil sis :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1st off ananda. If your going to answer in red IN MY QUOTE. remove the /quote at the end. It does not come through when you quote and want to respond. Is this hard to ask?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

Questions not answered!

You should not have even tried Ananda, When they returned form the babylonian captivity. a few things are missing for Ezekials prophesy to be true.

1. Not all Israel returned. Only the jews (answered by Doc you just didn't read the article)

Sorry. I did not come in here to discuss what other people sad. I came in here to discuss scripture. If I wanted to discuss scripture with an author of a website I would go there.

So what? You think because some biased website says a few words they are correct? Sorry sis. Your don't get off that easy. I do pray when you share the gospel with someone you do not direct them to some biased website. That is not the way we are to do things!




2. Israel had not repented. They did not live in peace. They were ruled for foriegners, even when they were in their land. Even up till the time of Christ. are you mixing prophecies again?


Mixing? I am stating facts. The prophesy said they would live in those things. They never have. so why would I want to believe those prophesies have come true when they have not? Your the one who claimed it was fulfilled after babylon. Yet The prophesy said things would happen which did not happen. So what you want me to make an unfilfilloed prophesy fulfilled? You can feel free to do that I refuse.
3. Ezekial said ALL ISREAL will be returned. yes and see the article Doc posted it shows how ALL of Isreal were invited to return when the second temple was rebuilt, etc.
The prophesy does not say INVITED TO RETURN! It says they WILL RETURN!! And back to the article?? WHAT? I do not base my doctrines on what men say. I base them on what God says. God saied ALL ISREAL WILL RETURN. He did not say they would be invited to return and refuse. What kind of God do you think we serve that can not get his prophesies right? You think God would have prophesied that HE WOULD RETURN ISREAL TO THEIR LAND. if he KNEW THEY WOULD NOT COME?

4. Ezekial said ALL ISrael will repent. (did not happen, has not happened yet. mmmm ever heard the word REMNANT?


Yep I have. You ever looked up the defenition of ALL? All does not now, nor has it ever ment some or a remnant. All means ALL. this if ALL do not repent. then God is a liar!


5. God never put his spirit in the JEWS wher returned. ??? mixing prophecies again


What prophesies? Is this your answer? How do you expect to discuss thing wit hanswers like this. And you say I don't answer.

Again God said HE WOULD PUT HIS SPIRIT IN THEM. Did God lie?? You claimed this was after babylon. Did it happen?? You changing your tiune now that you have been shown to be in error??

PROPHESIES CONCERNED JACOB AND ISREAl. WHO WERE PUNISHED FOR THEIR UNBELIEF AND SENT TO THE GENTILES AS A PUNISHMENT. (This was completely fulfilled and AD 70) THEY ALL SAY GOD WILL RESTORE THEM AFTER THEY REPENT. No don't accept this premise, its not about 70 AD its about the exile before that.


I don't car if you accept it or not.

the facts are:

1. Israel (the northern kingdom) has never been returned to their land since syria took them.
2. When babylon took them. THEY DID NOT TAKE EVERYONE. THEY EVEN LEFT A JEWSIH PUPPET IN CHARGE.
3. Thus until AD 70. it is impossible for the prophesy concerning ALL israel being removed from her land to have come true.

You should be ashamed you do not think God can prophesy and his prophesies come 100 % true. what kind of God do you think he is?

Paul said in romans that jew and gentile are one under Christ. all except for romans 11. when he said gentile was grafted in, and jew was cut off. But he said when the time of the gentile was finished. jew would be grafted back in. yep that is when the TEMPLE was destroyed in 70 AD for if they repented before then, they might have been saved and prophecy would have been delayed and they would be His people again instead of being scattered.


what?? When did the time of the gentile end? Are you kidding. the time of the gentile began right before AD 70 because isreal rejected. Paul said this would happen, AND IT DID. And now you want to twist it? Try again. You think I am going to twist pauls words to make my belief come true you have another thing coming.l


The time of the gentile will come to and end. And at this time (and NOT UNTIL THEN) will ALL ISREAL BE SAVED. As was said in the OT. they will returned to their land, and again made a light to the world as representatives of Christ. It is all in the passages I posted. Your failure to see this does not make it not true. mmm no it says Remnant but you like to ignore that part. where does it say ALL fleshly descendents of Isreal in reference to prophecies that have not ALREADY been fulfilled?


Again remnant DOES NOT EQUAL ALL. Nice try.

So tell me. Why would God say he would destroy a gentile nation for not serving Israel? mmmm mixing prophecies much be your pass time...


You need to stop hanging around strangelove, Your pridefull arrogant answers like this are not very christianlike. You expect me to take this as an answer.

Keep running girl. Don't blame people for not listening to you or coming to your belief when you make rude comments like this

I am surer there are more, but this should keep you busy ok done, maybe I'll go take a nap....
done? You have just twisted Scripture. Called God a liar. Twisted the meanings of words. Called God a God who is not able to properly prophesy things that WILL HAPPEN. and made him somehow forget that things would not happen that way. Destroyed the Authority and omnipitance of God by saying although God said these things would happen. he was unable to make them come true. And you think your done?

Maybe you should stop looking at biased websites for the foundation of your beliefs and start studying scripture.


Your failure to see this does not make it not true. "
Well you have done nothing to show me it is true. You ran.

Romans 11
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


What happens if they continue in unbelief?
I don't have to think of that. Paul already gave us the answer.

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:


“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]

Don't think your self wise ananda. Israel is blind today. But when the fulness of the gentiles has come. God will remove that blindness and ALL isreal will be saved.

No such things as remant/. All = all, or Paul is a liar. Is paul a liar too??
If they are not considered the seed of Abraham how then can the be considered the seed of Israel?
what?? this makes no sense. if who are not the seed of abraham??

Luke 1
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “ Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our li
fe.
76 “ And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited[e] us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.”

Fulfillment of:
Nope. This was not fulfilled. Zacharias knew the time had come. But isreal rejection precluded this from being fulfilled. Nice try though

Daniel 9
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


it NEVER says HE BREAKS the Covenant. It says HE ENDS Sacrifice. Did JESUS end sacrifice? Yes or No?
Jesus CAN NOT BE THE PRINCE. THE PRINCE IS A ROMAN, HIS PEAPLE DESTOYED THE TEMPLE IN AD 70. WAS JESUS A ROMAN OR A JEW??
Did he CONFIRM the covenant? Yes or no?

Read aBove, You have the wrong prince


How long did Jesus ACTIVELY preach?

you can chose to ignore it.
No you are the one ignoring facts!.

1. Jesus preached at the end of the 69th week.
2. He was cut off after the 69th week was done.
3. The covenant is made AFTER the messiah is cut off not before. It is made AFTER the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
4. The prince who confirms the covenant is the one who comes from the people who destroyed the sanctuary. It CANT be jesus.

You just chose to ignore it!
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Have a great time lil sis :)
is there a point in answering someone when they don't even bother reading articles posted with BIBLE quotes explained clearly and concisely?