FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible says NOTHING about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
What an amazing discovery! Really?
Yes, it is. Considering how many people there will be such a trip.
But since you seem confident that there will be one, could you provide the verses that show it?
Isn't that amazing in the light of (a) John 14:1-3 and (b) Philippians 3:20? If our citizenship is in Heaven, and Christ is preparing mansions in Heaven for His saints, where else would believers go except to Heaven?
OK, let's start with John 14. I'm always glad to repeat myself for the benefit of those who might have missed it before.
1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Remember that Jesus hadn't died YET when He said this to His 11 disciples. So, v.2 is clearly a statement guaranteeing that they will go to heaven when they die. Jesus hadn't gone YET. But He would be, after His death and resurrection.
v.3 changes the subject and focuses on Jesus' Second Advent "I will come back". Does Jesus tell them He will take them back to heaven? Why would He. By the time of the Second Advent (or even just before the Trib), all 11 disciples will have been IN heaven for about 2,000 years, give or take. They are ALREADY IN heaven. And they will be with Him when He comes back to earth. Jesus says nothing about going to earth and then back to heaven. He simply assures them that where He is, they will be with Him.
That has already been fulfilled. Just as Jesus has been IN heaven since the ascension, all 11 disciples have been with Him as well.
No mystery and no trip back to heaven after getting a glorified body.
Now for Phil 3:20 - But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
First, I don't see anything that describes a trip to heaven in glorified bodies.
Second, when did Paul write this? Approx 2,000 years ago. Except those who "are alive and remain until the coming of our Lord", EVERY believer will go to heaven, where their citizenship is.
But neither passages supports a pretrib trip to heaven in glorified bodies.
The New Jerusalem is the heavenly city designed and built by God for His people. And that city is definitely in Heaven.
There is no argument here. And the Bible tells us WHEN believers will experience that city; after the Millennial reign and the present heaven and earth are melted and there will be a new heaven and earth. Rev 21:1
Therefore Abraham looked for a city that has foundations, whose Builder and Maker is God. So how in the world can any Christian miss all this and claim that glorified believers will not go to Heaven?
I have a better question: how in the world an any Christian claim that Jesus will take glorified believers to heaven? When there are NO verses that say so.
Did Enoch go to Heaven? Did Elijah go to Heaven? Are all the OT saints now in Heaven? Are all the NT saints who have passed on now in Heaven?
That's my point. ALl believers from Adam on who have died ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN.
Why don't you study the Bible before making OUTRAGEOUS statements?
What is actually 'outrageous' is believing that Jesus will take glorified believers to heaven.
Believers receive glorified bodies at the resurrection, of which there is just one.
Read Rev 20:4,5
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Tribulational martyrs are in THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Plain as day.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
How many resurrections do you count in this verse? I count 2: one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
And the FIRST of these 2 resurrections involve "those who belong to Him" per 1 Cor 15:23.
Unless you can prove with Scripture that Jesus will give glorified bodies to all believers and THEN take them to heaven and that there are stages of believer resurrection, you have only conjecture, innuendo and presumption.