Are there two gospels or ONE?

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,978
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#1
I want to make a separate topic of this:

Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?

In my opinion there is one gospel, because gospel just means glad tidings of good things. (or good news).

So whether its called Gospel of the Kingdom, grace, God, peace, doesn't matter. All of those are in the Bible, if we were to assume all of those gospels are different ones cause one is called the gospel of Peace and one is teh gospel of God, we would end up in an ABSOLUTE MESS.

I made this thread to "feel the waters" a bit and see where people on this forum stand on this issue. I hope I wont end up in the minority here, BUT as usual if scripture is provided to prove me wrong I will be QUICK to apologize, repent and CHANGE my views on it.
I am very much concerned about Matthew being "for the jews" and everytime something is brought up we go back to "its to the jews" or "when did Jesus preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4" as if 1 corinthians 15:1-4 is all there is to the gospel.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Remember Paul also says who preaches another gospel is accursed. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says the gospel "switches" to a different one after the rapture happens or ANYTHING like that, that is pure reading into the text and assuming.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,102
485
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#2
I want to make a separate topic of this:

Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?

In my opinion there is one gospel, because gospel just means glad tidings of good things. (or good news).

So whether its called Gospel of the Kingdom, grace, God, peace, doesn't matter. All of those are in the Bible, if we were to assume all of those gospels are different ones cause one is called the gospel of Peace and one is teh gospel of God, we would end up in an ABSOLUTE MESS.

I made this thread to "feel the waters" a bit and see where people on this forum stand on this issue. I hope I wont end up in the minority here, BUT as usual if scripture is provided to prove me wrong I will be QUICK to apologize, repent and CHANGE my views on it.
I am very much concerned about Matthew being "for the jews" and everytime something is brought up we go back to "its to the jews" or "when did Jesus preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4" as if 1 corinthians 15:1-4 is all there is to the gospel.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Remember Paul also says who preaches another gospel is accursed. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says the gospel "switches" to a different one after the rapture happens or ANYTHING like that, that is pure reading into the text and assuming.
As the word saved throughout Scripture is not always pointing to eternal salvation, the word gospel is not always pointing to the gospel of eternal salvation. As you said, gospel simply means good news. There are several good news messages throughout the Bible.

The disciples were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, yet they had no idea that Jesus was going to die on the cross for sins and be resurrected. How can one preach the gospel of salvation and not mention the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,367
228
63
#3
Les Feldic preaches the 2 gospels.
He makes a compelling case.
However it is typical error by emphasis.

They will tell you that the gospel of the kingdom is OT law.
The gospel of grace was only Pauls brainchild.

I disagree.
Mainly because you can not walk with God with zero ordinances ,or (perrameters). But beyond that,the gospel is not necessarily grace,gut a person,JESUS.

I still like feldick,but i know too much bible to draw similar conclusions.
We have one of his followers in our mens bible class. He is disruptive.
He is way too obcessed with Paul. He hated our series in the book of James.

Again error by emphasis
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,367
228
63
#4
As the word saved throughout Scripture is not always pointing to eternal salvation, the word gospel is not always pointing to the gospel of eternal salvation. As you said, gospel simply means good news. There are several good news messages throughout the Bible.

The disciples were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, yet they had no idea that Jesus was going to die on the cross for sins and be resurrected. How can one preach the gospel of salvation and not mention the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
Salvation,or becoming born again does not necessarily follow information of the price paid or the resurrection.
Paul recieved neither.
His conversion was like mine.
Jesus showed up.

Pre pauline we have Jesus in the gospels,and the Jewish early church.
In the gospels we have "the messiah amoung men. The manifest messiah has come"
The early Jewish church had messiah " came,died, and is now resurrected"

Peter was shown the component of salvation now extended to the gentile.

It was the "gospel of the kingdom" (pre cross/reurrection) that introduced the "born again" component.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,102
485
83
#5
Salvation,or becoming born again does not necessarily follow information of the price paid or the resurrection.
Paul recieved neither.
His conversion was like mine.
Jesus showed up.

Pre pauline we have Jesus in the gospels,and the Jewish early church.
In the gospels we have "the messiah amoung men. The manifest messiah has come"
The early Jewish church had messiah " came,died, and is now resurrected"

Peter was shown the component of salvation now extended to the gentile.

It was the "gospel of the kingdom" (pre cross/reurrection) that introduced the "born again" component.
Sorry, I disagree with your view of the gospel unto salvation. It is all about how Christ died for our sins, was buried and was resurrected the third day. That is the gospel.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul received the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
1,345
302
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#6
At some point during Jesus' earthly ministry (first advent), "the kingdom of the heavens is at hand" ceased being said/proclaimed.

I believe "this gospel of the kingdom" (Matt24:14/26:13) is what will be being preached in all the world DURING the trib years (following the Rapture of "the Church which is His body") and that it necessarily involves the idea [surrounding] its [again] being immediately "at hand" (very soon to arrive and commence!), which is not what we are presently saying (recall, it involves "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" and involves Israel [and their participation] rather than their "blindness... UNTIL" [present] status). And that involves "when ye [speaking of the proleptic 'ye'] shall see all these things know that IT IS NEAR, even at the doors" ("IT" being the commencement of the earthly MK).

This is parallel to what I've stated regarding the SEQUENCE issues of Matt22:7-8 [verse 7 involving the 70ad events; verse 8 stating "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" paralleling the later Rev1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], to SHEW UNTO His servants [Rev7:3 the 144,000 (for example)] things which must come to pass [4:1, the FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" not things transpiring over the past some 2000 years [parallel with the other "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" passages of Lk18:8 [chpt 17-end] /and Rom16:20, regarding "future things" [to us] not present things).

"The wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [also in Rev19:9] is the promised and prophesied earthly MK, and the "INVITATION" to THAT is given out DURING the trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture; "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during that time frame] (and is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself involving "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [Rev19:7; 2Cor11:2 also] ). "BLESSED are those [plural 'guests'] having been called/invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb" (again, this is the call [invitation] TO/FOR/ABOUT "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK commencing upon His "return" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]) Presently, WE are asking ppl to be involved with "the MARRIAGE" itself. ;)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,102
485
83
#7
At some point during Jesus' earthly ministry (first advent), "the kingdom of the heavens is at hand" ceased being said/proclaimed.

I believe "this gospel of the kingdom" (Matt24:14/26:13) is what will be being preached in all the world DURING the trib years (following the Rapture of "the Church which is His body") and that it necessarily involves the idea [surrounding] its [again] being immediately "at hand" (very soon to arrive and commence!), which is not what we are presently saying (recall, it involves "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" and involves Israel [and their participation] rather than their "blindness... UNTIL" [present] status). And that involves "when ye [speaking of the proleptic 'ye'] shall see all these things know that IT IS NEAR, even at the doors" ("IT" being the commencement of the earthly MK).

This is parallel to what I've stated regarding the SEQUENCE issues of Matt22:7-8 [verse 7 involving the 70ad events; verse 8 stating "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" paralleling the later Rev1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], to SHEW UNTO His servants [Rev7:3 the 144,000 (for example)] things which must come to pass [4:1, the FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" not things transpiring over the past some 2000 years [parallel with the other "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" passages of Lk18:8 [chpt 17-end] /and Rom16:20, regarding "future things" [to us] not present things).

"The wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [also in Rev19:9] is the promised and prophesied earthly MK, and the "INVITATION" to THAT is given out DURING the trib years [FOLLOWING or Rapture; "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during that time frame] (and is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself involving "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [Rev19:7; 2Cor11:2 also] ). "BLESSED are those [plural 'guests'] having been called/invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb" (again, this is the call [invitation] TO/FOR/ABOUT "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK commencing upon His "return" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]) Presently, WE are asking ppl to be involved with "the MARRIAGE" itself. ;)
Even after Jesus' resurrection, the disciples were questioning the restoration of the kingdom of Israel.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
1,345
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#8
Even after Jesus' resurrection, the disciples were questioning the restoration of the kingdom of Israel.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Right.

And note that Jesus does not correct them about the NATURE of said kingdom (as if somehow they'd gotten things wrong about it, all along, or something, or that it somehow "changed" into something completely different), He only spoke there of what involved its TIMING (which was their question).
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
310
83
#9
Each of the gospel writers wrote to a specific audience, an audience that would best identify with the message tailored for it.
Matthew directed His gospel to the Jews about this Jesus of Nazareth who is Messiah
Mark to Gentiles - Roman gentiles in particular
Luke to the Greeks, a specific Greek to be exact - Theophillus
John to the both, is considered the most theological of the 4

All 4 are in agreement, they can be harmonzied into one cohesive reading. What one gospel left out, another picked up on and by harmonizing there is a more complete picture of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.

So there is one gospel message no matter what its called. Written before the cross, when we entered into the grace covenant, Jesus ministry was to the Jews and does not dismiss the Laws, but also taught of grace to come.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,102
485
83
#10
Each of the gospel writers wrote to a specific audience, an audience that would best identify with the message tailored for it.
Matthew directed His gospel to the Jews about this Jesus of Nazareth who is Messiah
Mark to Gentiles - Roman gentiles in particular
Luke to the Greeks, a specific Greek to be exact - Theophillus
John to the both, is considered the most theological of the 4

All 4 are in agreement, they can be harmonzied into one cohesive reading. What one gospel left out, another picked up on and by harmonizing there is a more complete picture of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.

So there is one gospel message no matter what its called. Written before the cross, when we entered into the grace covenant, Jesus ministry was to the Jews and does not dismiss the Laws, but also taught of grace to come.
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
 

KD

Member
Nov 20, 2018
71
47
18
#11
I believe the Gospel (good news) is Jesus!

The writers did have different audiences and as believers we can read and apply and build faith through the Word(Jesus)

The main thing is the main thing, Jesus.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
1,366
512
113
#12
As the word saved throughout Scripture is not always pointing to eternal salvation, the word gospel is not always pointing to the gospel of eternal salvation. As you said, gospel simply means good news. There are several good news messages throughout the Bible.

The disciples were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, yet they had no idea that Jesus was going to die on the cross for sins and be resurrected. How can one preach the gospel of salvation and not mention the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
Jesus mentioned this several times to them (that he was going to die and be resurrected) but they just didnt understand it at the time. They soon did get it. After he was resurrected. And then they were just asking the timing of the rest of it. It was not a different gospel, its just peoples understanding of it differs. The jews seek a sign, and the greeks (gentiles) sought wisdom.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,102
485
83
#13
Jesus mentioned this several times to them (that he was going to die and be resurrected) but they just didnt understand it at the time. They soon did get it. After he was resurrected. And then they were just asking the timing of the rest of it. It was not a different gospel, its just peoples understanding of it differs. The jews seek a sign, and the greeks (gentiles) sought wisdom.
When Jesus sent them out preaching the gospel of the kingdom, what was the message? What were the disciples preaching? The good news of what?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,367
228
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#14
At some point during Jesus' earthly ministry (first advent), "the kingdom of the heavens is at hand" ceased being said/proclaimed.

I believe "this gospel of the kingdom" (Matt24:14/26:13) is what will be being preached in all the world DURING the trib years (following the Rapture of "the Church which is His body") and that it necessarily involves the idea [surrounding] its [again] being immediately "at hand" (very soon to arrive and commence!), which is not what we are presently saying (recall, it involves "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" and involves Israel [and their participation] rather than their "blindness... UNTIL" [present] status). And that involves "when ye [speaking of the proleptic 'ye'] shall see all these things know that IT IS NEAR, even at the doors" ("IT" being the commencement of the earthly MK).

This is parallel to what I've stated regarding the SEQUENCE issues of Matt22:7-8 [verse 7 involving the 70ad events; verse 8 stating "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" paralleling the later Rev1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], to SHEW UNTO His servants [Rev7:3 the 144,000 (for example)] things which must come to pass [4:1, the FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" not things transpiring over the past some 2000 years [parallel with the other "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" passages of Lk18:8 [chpt 17-end] /and Rom16:20, regarding "future things" [to us] not present things).

"The wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [also in Rev19:9] is the promised and prophesied earthly MK, and the "INVITATION" to THAT is given out DURING the trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture; "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during that time frame] (and is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself involving "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [Rev19:7; 2Cor11:2 also] ). "BLESSED are those [plural 'guests'] having been called/invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb" (again, this is the call [invitation] TO/FOR/ABOUT "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK commencing upon His "return" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]) Presently, WE are asking ppl to be involved with "the MARRIAGE" itself. ;)
Except you left out the doalog at the last supper,which,in conjunction with the verses you cite places it IN HEAVEN.
You are misreading that sir
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,260
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#15
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
There's only one Gospel of the kingdom and that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified! 😋
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
310
83
#16
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
You missed my point, the original question was 'Are there two gospels'
my point being that there is one gospel written to specific audiences to address their understanding in THEIR culture
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,367
228
63
#17
Jesus mentioned this several times to them (that he was going to die and be resurrected) but they just didnt understand it at the time. They soon did get it. After he was resurrected. And then they were just asking the timing of the rest of it. It was not a different gospel, its just peoples understanding of it differs. The jews seek a sign, and the greeks (gentiles) sought wisdom.
Yep it is easy to see.
Gospel of the kingdom=Jesus
Gospel of grace=Jesus.

Paul was unaware of the backdrop (death/res) when Jesus apeared to him.
My own conversion was not a mental teaching of bible concepts.
It was Jesus showing up,univited.
No teaching or concept of Jesus ,or his sacrifice/cross/resurrection.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,890
2,212
113
#19
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
Hi John146, the gospel of Jesus Christ is clear. From the very beginning your gospel has gone fowl by bringing in all of your "additions" to the "True Gospel", You are preaching a counterfeit gospel and no more needs to said. Jesus Christ our Savior is the "True Gospel", and the "True Gospel" was preached by Jesus our Savior not the Apostle Paul. Your message is a counterfeit gospel through and through.

Matthew 4:14
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,367
228
63
#20
When Jesus sent them out preaching the gospel of the kingdom, what was the message? What were the disciples preaching? The good news of what?
Messiah is come.

No greater news could be forthcoming.
It was the good,no GREATEST, news ever