As in the days of Noah... ALL flesh had CORRUPTED itself

[BEB1956]

Really? And who made you the authority on what Peter was teaching or not teaching? And the words are actually from the Holy Spirit who gave Peter his epistles by divine inspiration. So wake up and face reality (2 Peter 2:4).

There is no difference between the Critical and the Received Texts.
CRITICAL TEXT
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο, ἀλλὰ σειροῖς / σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τηρουμένους,
RECEIVED TEXT
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τετηρημένους·

So what is ταρταρώσας (Tartarosas)? "having cast [them] down to Tartarus" (translated as "hell" in the KJB):

King James Bible
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;

The lexicons incorrectly identify "Tartarus" as "Gehenna" (the Lake of Fire). But Tartarus is similar to Hades, except that it is a special prison for the angels which sinned before the Flood. Jude also refers to this: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. They will eventually be cast into Gehenna (the Lake of Fire).

I know the word tartarus comes from Greek mythology, meaning it comes from false religion. This tartarus that comes from Greek mythology has never ever really existed. So because tartarus didn't ever really exist, then it was never ever a real place that anyone could be put in, and be imprisoned.

I disagree that Peter taught that tartarus was a real place. When Peter used the word tartarus he was teaching it to be a prison like, abased condition. The True God cast these disobedient angels into this condition in Noah's day.
It's evident from scriptures such as 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; 1 Peter 3:19, 20 that tartarus is a condition rather than a Place. Considering on the one hand Peter speaks of these disobedient spirits as being in "pits of dense darkness," while Paul speaks of them as being in "heavenly places" at Ephesians 6:10-12. The dense darkness that Peter speaks of at 2 Peter 2:4 is not literally a lack of light but results from their being cut off from illumination by the True God as renegades and outcasts from his family, with only a dark outlook as to their eternal destiny.

I disagree that Tartarus is similar to Hades or Sheol, both of which refer to the common earthly grave of mankind. This is evident from the fact that, while the apostle Peter shows at 1 Peter 3:18-20 that Jesus Christ preached to these " spirits in prison," Peter also shows that Jesus Christ did so, not during the three days while he was buried in Hades(Sheol) but after his resurrection out of Hades.

 

[Moses_Young]

First of all let's get something straight, Peter wasn't referring to some other dimension place where the True God put these fallen angels. This other dimension place never ever really existed. It's lies. God doesn't refer to lies as though they are true.

I'm going by the fact that any false religion that teaches people false gods such as Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really existed and teach that tartarus was a real place that really existed, are teaching lies. It's also a scriptural fact that when you're talking about any false religion or false god all false gods and all false religion is about Satan and his demons. Satan and his demons are the ones who deceived people to believe these false gods are real. Satan and his demons teach lies, not truth. It's a scriptural fact that you don't take what belongs to Satan such as the lies he and his demons teach and unite them with God's word as though Satan and his demons have something in common with God's truth. You don't take tartarus as being a real literal place that really existed. If you do you have deceived yourself that Satan and his demons teach truth. Peter wasn't teaching that tartarus really existed, Peter didn't believe tartarus was a real place. So he was teaching that these fallen angels were in a condition not in a place.

Your lack of a basic understanding of logic and unwillingness to believe in a Hell make me think you are a JW. Just because Zeus, Ares and Apollo were part of a false religion, doesn't mean they didn't exist in one form another (it doesn't mean they did exist, but neither does it mean they didn't). A false religion could be 99% true, and still be false. Peter refers to Tartarus, and as Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit and God cannot lie, this part from the false religion is obviously true.

Or are you also arguing against the infallibility of scripture?

 

[BEB1956]

Your lack of a basic understanding of logic and unwillingness to believe in a Hell make me think you are a JW. Just because Zeus, Ares and Apollo were part of a false religion, doesn't mean they didn't exist in one form another (it doesn't mean they did exist, but neither does it mean they didn't). A false religion could be 99% true, and still be false. Peter refers to Tartarus, and as Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit and God cannot lie, this part from the false religion is obviously true.

Or are you also arguing against the infallibility of scripture?

You can believe that Satan and his demons are about truth, but the scriptures show that Satan and his demons are about lies, not truth. If you and any others want to believe that false gods like Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really do exist, that's your choice, but I'm not going to agree with you. I know for a fact they didn't really exist, the scriptures prove that to those who are willing to listen to what the scriptures teach.
When it comes to a lack of basic understanding of logic and willingness to listen, its people who believe human beings have living souls that have a lack of basic understanding of logic and who have an unwillingness to listen.
When God had Genesis 2:7 written which teaches us how the True God brought into existence the first human being, Genesis 2:7 doesn't say anywhere that God gave the first human being a living soul. Genesis 2:7 teaches us instead that God took dust from the ground and formed a flesh and blood human body, then God blew the breath/spirit of life into that flesh and blood human body, and the flesh and blood human body became a living soul. So human beings don't have living souls in their flesh and blood human bodies, instead our flesh and blood human bodies are living souls. So we human beings don't have living souls, we are are living souls.

 

[PennEd]

Jude 6 isn't saying that the angels were kept in a place of everlasting darkness. These fallen angels were judged by God for their rebellion to be in a condition of everlasting chains concerning mental and spiritual darkness, so these fallen angels will never again be able to materialize bodies that look human ever again and they will receive everlasting destruction by the lake of fire.

Where are you getting this from?

You are simply making stuff up in your head.

See folks, THIS is a textbook example of why it's so dangerous to allegorize Scripture. Every man can make it mean whatever they deem is right, instead of just letting Scripture speak for itself.

 

[PennEd]

You can believe that Satan and his demons are about truth, but the scriptures show that Satan and his demons are about lies, not truth. If you and any others want to believe that false gods like Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really do exist, that's your choice, but I'm not going to agree with you. I know for a fact they didn't really exist, the scriptures prove that to those who are willing to listen to what the scriptures teach.
When it comes to a lack of basic understanding of logic and willingness to listen, its people who believe human beings have living souls that have a lack of basic understanding of logic and who have an unwillingness to listen.
When God had Genesis 2:7 written which teaches us how the True God brought into existence the first human being, Genesis 2:7 doesn't say anywhere that God gave the first human being a living soul. Genesis 2:7 teaches us instead that God took dust from the ground and formed a flesh and blood human body, then God blew the breath/spirit of life into that flesh and blood human body, and the flesh and blood human body became a living soul. So human beings don't have living souls in their flesh and blood human bodies, instead our flesh and blood human bodies are living souls. So we human beings don't have living souls, we are are living souls.

A word salad so grand it would make Kamala Harris blush!

 

[cv5]

A word salad so grand it would make Kamala Harris blush!

Yes, we have discovered another extraordinary talent in that regard.

 

[ZNP]

A word salad so grand it would make Kamala Harris blush!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Dr3tRna3t0U

 

[Moses_Young]

You can believe that Satan and his demons are about truth, but the scriptures show that Satan and his demons are about lies, not truth. If you and any others want to believe that false gods like Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really do exist, that's your choice, but I'm not going to agree with you. I know for a fact they didn't really exist, the scriptures prove that to those who are willing to listen to what the scriptures teach.

If false gods like Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really did/do exist, it's likely they were/are fallen angels, or perhaps Nephalim. But whether they exist or not, you should learn that the best lies are 95% true. Satan doesn't always only speak lies, or his deception would be obvious. He mixes lies with truth, even going so far as to use scripture to deceive.

 

[BEB1956]

Where are you getting this from?

You are simply making stuff up in your head.

See folks, THIS is a textbook example of why it's so dangerous to allegorize Scripture. Every man can make it mean whatever they deem is right, instead of just letting Scripture speak for itself.

I'm not making anything up. It makes more since to me because of such scriptures like 1 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; 1 Peter 3:19-20; that tartarus is a prison like abased condition that the True God cast upon these fallen angels. So I believe Tartarus not to be a particular location. Because these fallen angels are in a prison like abased condition it limits the activity of these fallen angels. These fallen angels are in a state of dense mental darkness regarding the True God's purposes. So no I don't believe that because Peter used the word tartarus, these fallen angels are in the mythological Tartarus, such a place doesn't really exist. I believe the biblical Tartarus is the abased condition into which the True God threw these disobedient angels into.

 

[Moses_Young]

I'm not making anything up. It makes more since to me because of such scriptures like 1 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; 1 Peter 3:19-20; that tartarus is a prison like abased condition that the True God cast upon these fallen angels. So I believe Tartarus not to be a particular location. Because these fallen angels are in a prison like abased condition it limits the activity of these fallen angels. These fallen angels are in a state of dense mental darkness regarding the True God's purposes. So no I don't believe that because Peter used the word tartarus, these fallen angels are in the mythological Tartarus, such a place doesn't really exist. I believe the biblical Tartarus is the abased condition into which the True God threw these disobedient angels into.

You can believe that, but its not what the scriptures say.

 

[BEB1956]

If false gods like Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really did/do exist, it's likely they were/are fallen angels, or perhaps Nephalim. But whether they exist or not, you should learn that the best lies are 95% true. Satan doesn't always only speak lies, or his deception would be obvious. He mixes lies with truth, even going so far as to use scripture to deceive.

I don't believe that false gods like Zeus, Ares, Apollo ever existed, and anyone saying that Zeus, Ares, and Apollo were/are the fallen angels is just speculation.

I agree that Satan and his demons twist the truth that's in the scriptures, but that is still lies and God has never accepted lies with his truth, and neither should anyone who truly is a servant of the only True God.

 

[BEB1956]

You can believe that, but its not what the scriptures say.

I understand that people will make a choice of what they believe the truth is concerning the True God, his only begotten Son and what the truth is concerning the true God's word the Bible.

 

[BEB1956]

You can believe that, but its not what the scriptures say.

I understand that we disagree what the scriptures say

 

[GaryA]

Even if Peter's use of 'tartarus' was referring to some other-dimension 'place' where God put the angels - it is still a 'place'.

First of all let's get something straight, Peter wasn't referring to some other dimension place where the True God put these fallen angels.

I was not suggesting that Peter was saying that it was some "other dimension" place - I was merely making the point that - whatever 'place' God put the angels in (scripture indicates that God put/sent them somewhere) - it is still a 'place'.

 

[GaryA]

Any angels that are on Satan's side are his demons. Revelation 12:7-9 says that Satan and his angels fought against the archangel Michael and his angels. So yes because these angels were on Satan's side and fought with Satan against the archangel Michael and his angels, then these angels that were on Satan side were demons.

We will just have to disagree...

 

[BEB1956]

I was not suggesting that Peter was saying that it was some "other dimension" place - I was merely making the point that - whatever 'place' God put the angels in (scripture indicates that God put/sent them somewhere) - it is still a 'place'.

I understand what you believe, it's just that you and I disagree. We all know that Peter did use the word Tartarus at 2 Peter 2:4, but I honestly don't believe that when he used the word Tartarus in that scripture, Peter wasn't suggesting that God actually threw these fallen angels in the mythological Tartarus.

 

[Moses_Young]

I understand what you believe, it's just that you and I disagree. We all know that Peter did use the word Tartarus at 2 Peter 2:4, but I honestly don't believe that when he used the word Tartarus in that scripture, Peter wasn't suggesting that God actually threw these fallen angels in the mythological Tartarus.

Obviously it isn't mythological, then.

 

[ZNP]

Key points concerning the eclipse

1. A total solar eclipse occurs about every 18 months

2. However it has been 99 years prior to 2017 before a total solar eclipse crossed the entire USA.

3. However, to have this second eclipse that crosses that first making an X in the middle of the USA is completely unprecedented over the last two thousand years.

4. However, we have had 3 eclipses cross the USA in that time (2017, 2023 and 2024) and they have written a signature, Alpha and Omega, or better yet, the Hebrew “Aleph Tav”. There is no known precedent for this.

In science we feel is there is a 5% chance of something occurring then it could simply be chance, if the odds are greater than 1 in 20 (less than 5% chance) then we call that “significant”. In 30 years you would have 20 solar eclipses. What we are seeing here has not happened in the last 30,000 years, so instead of 1 in 20 the odds are greater than 1 in 20,000. Or less than 0.005% chance of happening. Therefore I conclude this is very significant.

So what is it saying?

1. These two eclipses intersect over a very small section of the US known as “little Egypt” — I suspect God is telling us something. In the ten plagues Egypt had 3 days of darkness and these two eclipses are two brief warnings of “days of darkness”.

2. The eclipse in 2017 went over seven cities in the US with the name Salem, which means peace and is the root word in Jerusalem. So we got seven warnings in 2017 of the sun not shining on “Peace” in the US. Perhaps that is a warning that we’ll have seven years of peace before the lights go out.

3. The eclipse in 2024 goes over 6 or 7 cities called “Nineveh”. Nineveh is the city that Jonah went to warn of coming judgement. Perhaps this is a warning of judgement in the US for 6-7 years. Some of these cities are not in the line of total eclipse but are bordering that line, so perhaps the judgement is not simply for the US but for our neighbors as well.

4. This eclipse in 2024 first crosses the US in a place called “Eagle Pass” that is where we now see a trucker protest concerning the US border. Perhaps this judgement begins there in the US.

5. Then the 2023 Eclipse and the 2024 eclipse intersect in a place called Uvalde, Texas. That is where we had a horrific school shooting at an elementary school. Perhaps that school shooting was a teaser for what the coming judgement will be like.

In Jewish thought the moon is one four hundredth the size of the sun, and it represents the Jewish nation in comparison to the Gentiles. Interestingly they estimate 16 million Jews on earth and 6.5 billion gentiles, indicating that there are 400x as many Gentiles and Jews. So then an eclipse of the Sun is a judgment on the Gentiles, an eclipse on the moon is a judgement on the Jews. Another interesting fact is that the letter “tav” in Hebrew is also equal to the number 400 and it means “sign”. So when the Bible says “let there be lights in the heavens for signs” it is saying let them be for “tav’s”. What makes this so interesting is that these two eclipses in 2017 and 2024 are making the letter Tav on the USA and this only works because the Sun is 400x further away from the Earth than the Moon. In other words God created the Sun, Moon and Stars so that these signs and particularly this Tav would be a sign for us today.

 

[PennEd]

I understand what you believe, it's just that you and I disagree. We all know that Peter did use the word Tartarus at 2 Peter 2:4, but I honestly don't believe that when he used the word Tartarus in that scripture, Peter wasn't suggesting that God actually threw these fallen angels in the mythological Tartarus.

Do you believe God destroyed the whole Earth with a flood, saving only 8 people in a floating barge?

Do you believe that God gave the whole world different languages in a moment at Babylon?

Do you believe God destroyed all the Sodomites and other people in surrounding towns except for Lot and his daughters?

Do you believe God used Moses to destroy the Egyptian 1st born, or turned the Nile into Blood, or parted the Red Sea, etc,..?

Do you believe God used Samson to kill 1000 Philistines at one time with the jaw bone of an ass?

Do you believe God raptured Enoch and Elijah?

Do you believe Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, was saved in the fiery furnace by God?

Do you believe Jesus raised Lazarus and others from the dead?

Do you believe God became flesh, in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah, to die for our sins, and raised Him to life?


Many many more. But we are not given authority to pick and choose what is true and real vs. what is an allegory.

 

[GaryA]

I understand what you believe, it's just that you and I disagree. We all know that Peter did use the word Tartarus at 2 Peter 2:4, but I honestly don't believe that when he used the word Tartarus in that scripture, Peter wasn't suggesting that God actually threw these fallen angels in the mythological Tartarus.

You don't believe that Peter wasn't suggesting...???

So - you do believe that Peter was suggesting...???