Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

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Apr 12, 2021
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You have no idea what God does. Only opinions, which you cannot support from Scripture.
And I know that God regenerates people from out of their state of spiritual death, and they are the elect, of which I am one.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Said the denier of truth. Mankind was NOT created to be a plaything for God
No one said any such thing. Man was created to be God’s sons.


Sons are supposed to submit to their Father. If they don’t they will become lost.



It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32


Do the lost need salvation?





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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If you really did, then you'd know that faith is not a gift.

Faith is the response of a person to God's grace offer of salvation.

The word of God teaches us faith is a gift.



Your man made doctrine of Hyper Grace is out of touch with the truth.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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No, salvation, eternal life and the indwelling Holy Spirit are described as gifts from God.
Grace and faith are gifts of God.


Eternal Salvation is given to those who obey the Lord.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9



JPT
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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No it's not. As I already explained, the Law was given to "lead us to Christ". How? By proving that man is sinful and CANNOT be sinless. God wasn't commanding in the sense of obeying the command, but as a teaching lesson to sinners.

So sinners will realize that they ARE sinful and in need of the Savior.

Gal 3-
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

These verses in Gal 3 prove that the command to be perfect" has nothing to do with being sinless.

Commanding someone to do something for the sole purpose of doing something KNOWING that the person CAN'T obey the command, is stupid. Period.

God is not stupid. He wouldn't command sinful man to be sinless unless they could be.

Even believers indwelt by the Spirit aren't sinless. The Bible doesn't teach sinless perfection.


The word "abides" refers to fellowship. iow, unless the believer is in fellowship with the Lord, he is unable to bear fruit.


Please quote the verses so I can see what translation you are using. God is not stupid, and He doesn't command what people can't do. The Law was used to prove that man is sinful and in need of the Savior.


Believers are indwelt by the Spirit, but NOT always filled with the Spirit.

Paul made this clear by his commands to STOP grieving the Spirit (Eph 4:30) and STOP quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19), and he commands believers to be filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18).

So, it should be obvious to you that believers are in fellowship ONLY WHEN they have confessed their sins and have been cleansed per 1 John 1:9 (count how many times the word "fellowship" is found in ch 1).

The filling of the Spirit is being empowered for service.
That is PRECISELY WHY the Law leads us to Christ and WHY those who are of the works of the Law are under the curse. Because they can't obey the command.

Only by coming to Christ can we be given rest from that curse.


There are lots of commands that God gives that people THINK they can obey but they can't.

That is the reason for Ezekiel 36:24-27
 
Oct 31, 2015
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That is PRECISELY WHY the Law leads us to Christ and WHY those who are of the works of the Law are under the curse. Because they can't obey the command.

Only by coming to Christ can we be given rest from that curse.


There are lots of commands that God gives that people THINK they can obey but they can't.

That is the reason for Ezekiel 36:24-27

Those who claim to be in Christ and have eternal life but don’t obey Hs commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


  • He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


”I know Him” if a reference to having eternal life. See John 17:3


His commandments are the way of love, and are not burdensome.



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Not my question. Not even interested in it.
Fair enough. At least you know now, it didn't originate with me, but I was quoting scripture.

So how about this question: if God calls these things everlasting, yet we are not under the letter of them, and they are shadows and Christ is the substance, what is Yom Kippur in Him?
 
Apr 12, 2021
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If you really did, then you'd know that faith is not a gift.

Faith is the response of a person to God's grace offer of salvation.
Here is God's grace in action. gifting a new heart, a new spirit, to those whom God caused to scatter abroad, foreordaining what they will do when they are re-gathered. And to those that don't respond to God's gracious gifts HE punishes. So too with God's offer of grace and gifts of salvation and faith.

Ezekiel 11:14And the word of the LORD came to me: 15“Son of man, your brothers, even your brothers, your kinsmen,b the whole house of Israel, all of them, are those of whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, ‘Go far from the LORD; to us this land is given for a possession.’ 16Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: Though I removed them far off among the nations, and though I scattered them among the countries, yet I have been a sanctuary to them for a whilec in the countries where they have gone.’ 17Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.’ 18And when they come there, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. 19And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 21But as for those whose heart goes after their detestable things and their abominations, I willd bring their deeds upon their own heads, declares the Lord GOD.”
 
Jan 31, 2021
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And I know that God regenerates people from out of their state of spiritual death, and they are the elect, of which I am one.
Here's how that works, from the Bible.

When a person hears and believes the gospel (Eph 1:13), Jesus gives them the gift of eternal life (John 10:28), God regenerates them (1 Pet 1:23), and they become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17). And, being a believer, they are elected to service (Eph 1:4, 19).
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Faith is a gift. 🎁
The only way I will agree to that is when 'faith' is used as a noun. And, as a noun, 'faith' refers to the whole body of what believers believe found in the Bible.

So, yes, God has gifted mankind with His written Word so that we can know His mind and plans for us.

Jer 29:11 - For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

But the action of believing the gospel is from the heart, not from God. And you have no verse that supports such a claim.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Mankind was NOT created to be a plaything for God
No one said any such thing.
Those who have followed the posts of Jerry know full well that he claims that God causes some totally depraved persons to believe and prevents others from believing, all on the basis of what He chooses.

He denies any free will, which means man is nothing more than a puppet or robot. To be played with, manipulated.

Man was created to be God’s sons.
By faith in Christ. John 1:12, Gal 3:26

Sons are supposed to submit to their Father.
'Supposed to' is a subjunctive. It may or may not occur.

If they don’t they will become lost.
No one "becomes lost". Everyone is born lost. Those who have believed are saved and cannot become lost. John 10:28

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32
This isn't salvation. The idiot prodigal was ALWAYS a son in the parable. He never lost his position as a son. What was lost in this parable was fellowsnip with his father.

Do the lost need salvation?
Everyone needs salvation.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Those who claim to be in Christ and have eternal life but don’t obey Hs commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


  • He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


”I know Him” if a reference to having eternal life. See John 17:3


His commandments are the way of love, and are not burdensome.



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
If you read Ezekiel 36:24-27 you will see why that is true.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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The word of God teaches us faith is a gift.
Only when 'faith' is a noun, never a verb. God does NOT CAUSE anyone to believe. That would mean man is just a puppet or robot.

Your man made doctrine of Hyper Grace is out of touch with the truth.
Well, thanks for revealing your very anti-grace orientation.

You probably are not aware of this verse about grace:

Berean Literal Bible
But He gives greater grace. Therefore it says: "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
New American Standard Bible
But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.”
Weymouth New Testament
But He gives more abundant grace, as is implied in His saying, "God sets Himself against the haughty, but to the lowly He gives grace."

God's grace is unlimited. But the anti-grace people either think it is limited by their own standards, or dearly wish it was limited.

There is no such thing as "too much grace", which you call "hyper-grace".