Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit

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Is Joe guilty of blaspheme?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 5 33.3%
  • It's not clear

    Votes: 5 33.3%
  • It doesn't apply

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • Total voters
    15

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,223
575
113
#1
Mark 3:
20Then Jesus went home, and once again a crowd gathered, so that He and His disciples could not even eat. 21When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
22And the scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and, “By the prince of the demons He drives out demons.”
23So Jesus called them together and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 26And if Satan is divided and rises against himself, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27Indeed, no one can enter a strong man’s house to steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can plunder his house.
28Truly I tell you, the sons of men will be forgiven all sins and blasphemies, as many as they utter. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of eternal sin.”
30Jesus made this statement because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Matthew 12:
22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed the man so that he could speak and see. 23The crowds were astounded and asked, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “Only by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons, does this man drive out demons.”
25Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his possessions, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Joe cessationist:

"The gifts have ceased and ALL exercise of them is demonic"
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
2,803
420
83
#2
Fear.
The opposite is actually true. Attributing to God things that are not God's is blasphemy.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,223
575
113
#3
Fear.
The opposite is actually true. Attributing to God things that are not God's is blasphemy.
Why would you be afraid of this? Unless of course it condemns you. But that's not my intent. Just trying to gauge where others stand on the subject.

And the scripture for that is..?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
845
208
43
#4
Mark 3:
20Then Jesus went home, and once again a crowd gathered, so that He and His disciples could not even eat. 21When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
22And the scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and, “By the prince of the demons He drives out demons.”
23So Jesus called them together and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 26And if Satan is divided and rises against himself, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27Indeed, no one can enter a strong man’s house to steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can plunder his house.
28Truly I tell you, the sons of men will be forgiven all sins and blasphemies, as many as they utter. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of eternal sin.”
30Jesus made this statement because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Matthew 12:
22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed the man so that he could speak and see. 23The crowds were astounded and asked, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “Only by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons, does this man drive out demons.”
25Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his possessions, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Joe cessationist:

"The gifts have ceased and ALL exercise of them is demonic"
I do not believe Joe has committed the unpardonable sin by saying this. It may be blasphemous and it may be insulting to some who do believe in the gifts but this is not something that Jesus cannot forgive him for. By this statement Joe is saying what he believes about the gifts of the Spirit. He does not explicitly say he is against Jesus or the Holy Spirit. In fact he could be a believer in Jesus or maybe not.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,223
575
113
#5
I do not believe Joe has committed the unpardonable sin by saying this. It may be blasphemous and it may be insulting to some who do believe in the gifts but this is not something that Jesus cannot forgive him for. By this statement Joe is saying what he believes about the gifts of the Spirit. He does not explicitly say he is against Jesus or the Holy Spirit. In fact he could be a believer in Jesus or maybe not.
So if an unbeliever says these things s/he's guilty, but if a believer says it they are not guilty?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
845
208
43
#6
So if an unbeliever says these things s/he's guilty, but if a believer says it they are not guilty?
No. If a believer or a unbeliever says it, that is irrelevant. A unbeliever can still be forgiven if he/she turns to Christ.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
4,011
1,216
113
#8
Mark 3:
20Then Jesus went home, and once again a crowd gathered, so that He and His disciples could not even eat. 21When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
22And the scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and, “By the prince of the demons He drives out demons.”
23So Jesus called them together and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, it cannot stand. 26And if Satan is divided and rises against himself, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27Indeed, no one can enter a strong man’s house to steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can plunder his house.
28Truly I tell you, the sons of men will be forgiven all sins and blasphemies, as many as they utter. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of eternal sin.”
30Jesus made this statement because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Matthew 12:
22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed the man so that he could speak and see. 23The crowds were astounded and asked, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “Only by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons, does this man drive out demons.”
25Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his possessions, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Joe cessationist:

"The gifts have ceased and ALL exercise of them is demonic"
The only way this could be answered is if we conclude that all things not of God are demonic.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,156
1,082
113
#9
I think the blasphemy would be speaking that Jesus Himself was not God. They said He was possessed by Devils.

Today there aren't many yet walking in His shoes.

There's something too about His teaching of binding them first, not as blasphemy, but possibly being untaught. Unteachable? Not sure.

Can't put my finger on it yet, so to speak.
 

azamzimtoti

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
192
122
43
#10
I don't think saying someone believes tongues has ceased is in ANY way equal to "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

What were you thinking?
 
Mar 14, 2011
58,688
6,511
113
#11
I don't think saying someone believes tongues has ceased is in ANY way equal to "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

What were you thinking?
Amen,

It could not mean either, Because it states that at this second if i believe ALL tongues is satanic (his example even if I repent i am lost forever. Because my sin was unpardonable.
 

Melach

Active member
Mar 28, 2019
283
143
43
#13
this was done when Jesus was on earth in the flesh. He isnt here no more in the flesh so we cant do it anymore. thats the way i look at this
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,156
1,082
113
#14
I don't think saying someone believes tongues has ceased is in ANY way equal to "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

What were you thinking?
Some say they are demonic. I think that's the point of the thread.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,156
1,082
113
#15
this was done when Jesus was on earth in the flesh. He isnt here no more in the flesh so we cant do it anymore. thats the way i look at this
You aren't a member of His body?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
37,455
9,814
113
#16
No. If a believer or a unbeliever says it, that is irrelevant. A unbeliever can still be forgiven if he/she turns to Christ.
AMEN.....Blasphemy of the SPIRIT was to reject Christ and be in a state of unbelief........that is exactly what it boiled down to........to deny CHRIST and the salvation offered through his sacrifice....
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
5,945
2,025
113
#18
Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’ — for they were saying, ‘He has an unclean spirit. Mark 3: 28-30

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven Luke 12:10

so what would that be?

doing some research, it appears that some denoms believe it is impossible for a Christian to commit this blasphemy as they are convinced within themselves that it only applied to Jesus addressing those who said He did what He did by the power of a demon

this, is of course quite a popular conclusion and these same denoms will tell you that the only unforgivable sin is dying in unbelief.

however, it should be noted that Jesus, for some odd reason that seems to have escaped the popular conclusion, referred the sin of blasphemy to an accusation against the Holy Spirit and not Himself

again, with reference to Luke above, Jesus says that every word spoken against Himself will be forgiven BUT the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. so yes, while Jesus has ascended, the Holy Spirit has descended and He is on earth, now, and the recipient of some very choice words that seem to deny His presence and power

blasphemy is attributing the works of the Spirit of God to the devil. context in both references indicate that to be so

my personal conclusion is that I am at a point in life that I believe people will be convinced of what is in their own heart by the very Spirit they either accept or reject

I would also state that if you are worried about it you probably have not committed such a sin

if you attest what is of the Holy Spirit to the devil and or demons, I tend to lean towards believing Jesus when He said not to do that
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
5,945
2,025
113
#19
I don't think saying someone believes tongues has ceased is in ANY way equal to "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

What were you thinking?

who mentioned tongues?

the op said 'gifts'
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,156
1,082
113
#20
Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’ — for they were saying, ‘He has an unclean spirit. Mark 3: 28-30

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven Luke 12:10

so what would that be?

doing some research, it appears that some denoms believe it is impossible for a Christian to commit this blasphemy as they are convinced within themselves that it only applied to Jesus addressing those who said He did what He did by the power of a demon

this, is of course quite a popular conclusion and these same denoms will tell you that the only unforgivable sin is dying in unbelief.

however, it should be noted that Jesus, for some odd reason that seems to have escaped the popular conclusion, referred the sin of blasphemy to an accusation against the Holy Spirit and not Himself

again, with reference to Luke above, Jesus says that every word spoken against Himself will be forgiven BUT the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. so yes, while Jesus has ascended, the Holy Spirit has descended and He is on earth, now, and the recipient of some very choice words that seem to deny His presence and power

blasphemy is attributing the works of the Spirit of God to the devil. context in both references indicate that to be so

my personal conclusion is that I am at a point in life that I believe people will be convinced of what is in their own heart by the very Spirit they either accept or reject

I would also state that if you are worried about it you probably have not committed such a sin

if you attest what is of the Holy Spirit to the devil and or demons, I tend to lean towards believing Jesus when He said not to do that
It could be both I think seven. In John 10, there were those who were going to stone Jesus because He said He is the Son of God. They accused Him of doing works of demons. He only did what He saw, and said what He heard. That would be the work of Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of Father. They are One. Not saying there are just two. 😉

And then Jesus says they are none of His Sheep.

Some would say this because of what a church might teach. Then later hear the truth or experience Holy Spirit and believe.

I would never dare judge one for this for the fear it could give. But, confront with truth we must and leave the results to the Lord.