can apostasy and giving up on the faith but later on wanting to return be forgiven ?

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#21
yep

And they are antichrist. and they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have departed.

Peter denied he knew him out of fear. He did not deny Jesus as an antichrist in unbelief.
Listen you can make a concession for Peter all you want however, Peter not only denied HIM be cursed too. Tye point is Jesus forgave him.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#22
am not suggesting the word of God has contradictions. What the word of God does say is all can come to repentance even those who have backslidden as the prodigal son and others. We do not use the word of God to make judgment calls on those still alive unless you are will g to tell someone they can't be saved? The full context within the text must be taken.
prodigal children are still children. They left to go into the world Not because they no longer believed in their father.

heb is about the type of falling away that as in the law. Salvation is lost.. Not about walking back to the world because you think you have all you need.

One must learn to determine what a person has and is doing.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#23
Listen you can make a concession for Peter all you want however, Peter not only denied HIM be cursed too. Tye point is Jesus forgave him.
Peter never lost salvation. And peter was not asked to repent. In fact Jesus restored peter by asking him three times, Peter do you love me

You can sit there and claim peter lost his salvation all you want. it will not make it fact.

Peter never stopped believing in Jesus. He denied out of fear of his own life.

God is not going to cast him to hell because of a moment of fear.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#24
prodigal children are still children. They left to go into the world Not because they no longer believed in their father.

heb is about the type of falling away that as in the law. Salvation is lost.. Not about walking back to the world because you think you have all you need.

One must learn to determine what a person has and is doing.
you nor I know who is to be saved, is not going to be saved. IF you tell a person they can't be saved from what you read in Hebrews chapter 3 to 6 that is an error and I would be very careful to say such things. The Thread is about apostasy = wilful betrayal of the faith. And teaching another way other than Jesus. willful disobedience can be forgiven when true repentance happens.
 

CS1

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#25
Peter never lost salvation. And peter was not asked to repent. In fact Jesus restored peter by asking him three times, Peter do you love me

You can sit there and claim peter lost his salvation all you want. it will not make it fact.

Peter never stopped believing in Jesus. He denied out of fear of his own life.

God is not going to cast him to hell because of a moment of fear.
You can't sit there and claim those in Hebrews chapter three to six did either :)
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#26
you nor I know who is to be saved, is not going to be saved.
Your right we can not. Nor should we try to determin who is saved or not.

But we can look to the word and see what the word says about those who ARE truly saved.

IF you tell a person they can't be saved from what you read in Hebrews chapter 3 to 6 that is an error and I would be very careful to say such things. The Thread is about apostasy = wilful betrayal of the faith. And teaching another way other than Jesus. willful disobedience can be forgiven when true repentance happens.
why would I tell a person they can't be saved? Heb is about returning to the law. It says IF we fall away (if it were possible) we could not be renewed to repentance. We put to shame the cross and Christ. your saying his death was not sufficient, we need to also add the law.. Apostacy in Heb is returning to the law and rejecting Christ. or adding the law to Christ, which is essentially rejecting him,

I am not going to tell a person thay can't be saved. where do you come up with that stuff??
 

CS1

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#28
3 - 6? I am talking about this in chapter 6.

and they did not lose salvation.
the context of chapter six starts before so you must take in context all prior to and after. what is your understanding of Apostasy?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#29
the context of chapter six starts before so you must take in context all prior to and after. what is your understanding of Apostasy?
the context of chapter 6 is returning the the law

the law states you can lose your salvation, that it must be gained by obedience to the law.

Returning to that is apostacy..

They returned to it, because that is what their true faith lie in. They always believed salvation must be earned and could be lost. that one can "fall away" so the new christian religion of faith minus works did appear to them initially. but since they never really trusted in it, they returned to their vomit..
 

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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#30
Listen you can make a concession for Peter all you want however, Peter not only denied HIM be cursed too. Tye point is Jesus forgave him.
Peter denying Jesus was part of God's plan ------Jesus had not died yet -----you are still in the Old Testament in Matthew --Mark --Luke and John -------God's used who He wanted to bring about His Salvation Plan ------Now ------ you Deny Jesus the Son --you also deny God the Father ----as the 2 are one and your SOL for having Eternal life ------
 

CS1

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#31
the context of chapter 6 is returning the the law

the law states you can lose your salvation, that it must be gained by obedience to the law.

Returning to that is apostacy..

They returned to it, because that is what their true faith lie in. They always believed salvation must be earned and could be lost. that one can "fall away" so the new christian religion of faith minus works did appear to them initially. but since they never really trusted in it, they returned to their vomit..
I agree it is, so to that point is Hebrews speaking to those who return to the law after coming to the knowledge of Christ as per Roman chapter 6 to 8 which I see as a parallel to Hebrews? Do you consider that to be apostasy?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#32
I agree it is, so to that point is Hebrews speaking to those who return to the law after coming to the knowledge of Christ as per Roman chapter 6 to 8 which I see as a parallel to Hebrews? Do you consider that to be apostasy?
I believe belief in anything, be it the law. The church, any kind of religion. even the religion of athiesm and loving ones sin, and rejecting all religion, is apostacy.

All of them lack faith in God. that's why they are depending on themselves and their works, and not in Christ. or they do not believe in God period.

Many come inside our churches and claim to have faith, as you said. We can't tell who does and who does not.

a dog returns to his vomit, because he is a dog.

I have never met anyone who left a deeply religious works based church or religion. and then returned to that religion after tasting the holy spirit by becoming part of that church body., who ever repented and returned to the church.

If you were not fully convinced before which lead to salvation. and left to return again to the vomit you came from. Your not going to leave a second time.

You heart would be too hard.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#33
I guess that my first question is can you give up the holy spirit once you have been indwelt

and my second question is if you do, but then later on realize that you made a mistake and you want to repent of committing apostasy and giving up the holy spirit and be back in relationship with Jesus, will he let you ?
brother the evil in this world prevails and persists precisely because God is allowing everyone opportunity for people to repent and be saved it’s why he hasn’t yet come when he does it will then not be a call for repentance like it is now

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7-13‬ ‭

God cried out as a lion roars across the universe with the gospel and sent it into every corner of the earth so if by any means we might hear him and repent and be saved

now is a call to repentance and belief but time will run out eventually but yes brother repent and give your heart to Jesus he will forgive you if you return to him with your heart.

And when he forgives it’s gone one day will be too late but not today !!! You may hear different ideas than this but remember Paul’s confession of blasphemy and persecuting the church stoning Stephen ect
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#34
I believe belief in anything, be it the law. The church, any kind of religion. even the religion of athiesm and loving ones sin, and rejecting all religion, is apostacy.

All of them lack faith in God. that's why they are depending on themselves and their works, and not in Christ. or they do not believe in God period.

Many come inside our churches and claim to have faith, as you said. We can't tell who does and who does not.

a dog returns to his vomit, because he is a dog.

I have never met anyone who left a deeply religious works based church or religion. and then returned to that religion after tasting the holy spirit by becoming part of that church body., who ever repented and returned to the church.

If you were not fully convinced before which lead to salvation. and left to return again to the vomit you came from. Your not going to leave a second time.

You heart would be too hard.
it seems you are saying from what I gather, those who

"The church, any kind of religion. even the religion of atheism and loving ones sin, and rejecting all religion, is apostacy."

are the same as those who have come to know of Christ and walked away? How can one betray what they never knew? by default?

They are just on saved. The judgment they will receive IF they are to die without Christ is unbelief unto salvation in Christ. John 3:17-19
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#35
it seems you are saying from what I gather, those who

"The church, any kind of religion. even the religion of atheism and loving ones sin, and rejecting all religion, is apostacy."

are the same as those who have come to know of Christ and walked away? How can one betray what they never knew? by default?
So they came to know the lord and how great he is and how he never lets anyone down. And how he is trustworthy and does what he promises.

then walk away?

They are just on saved. The judgment they will receive IF they are to die without Christ is unbelief unto salvation in Christ. John 3:17-19
He who believes is not condemned He who does not believe is condemned already. (Jesus)

Already means it is ongoing, it did not stop then return again.

Again,

John said those who walk away in unbelief were never saved.

Hebrews said those who fall away can never be renewed.

Why do you doubt John? And the author of Hebrews?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#36
Those that deny Christ deny Truth so the truth is not in them.
Peter denied knowing jesus ....being in his company.....peter coward under pressure. He departed in shame.
That is not the same as denying jesus.

Denying Jesus is also denying his deity and his witness. To say he has no power or authority.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#37
So they came to know the lord and how great he is and how he never lets anyone down. And how he is trustworthy and does what he promises.

then walk away?



He who believes is not condemned He who does not believe is condemned already. (Jesus)

Already means it is ongoing, it did not stop then return again.

Again,

John said those who walk away in unbelief were never saved.

Hebrews said those who fall away can never be renewed.

Why do you doubt John? And the author of Hebrews?
never mind, I asked you questions I am not doubting anything. You are free to move on without me on this topic, thank you and I will place you on "ignore".
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#38
never mind, I asked you questions I am not doubting anything. You are free to move on without me on this topic, thank you and I will place you on "ignore".
Lol

is this what you do when you are questioned?

I answered you questions the way I saw them..

Sorry if that offended you.